F—No. 3

BEFORE THE WAIKATO COMMITTEE.

of government than they had. The extract which I have just quoted from my memorandum -B I think answers this question. 1112. Do you think that that movement might have been directed into useful channels ?—I think so most decidedly ; I never knew or read of any people so entirely desirous of law as the New Zealanders. 1113. Do you think that the attempt to instruct them in a system of law, to be worked out by means of a European Magistrate, and their own co-operation, might have been the means ot" satisfying their desire for better Government ?—I would again refer to the Memorandum sent in to Government (E No. 1, p. 24), as follows:— " If the central district of the Northern Island, including Waikato, Taupo, Rotorna, Tauranga, Opotiki, Waiapu, and Poverty Bay, were formed into one or more Native Provinces, a simple system of elective and representative government, under the immediate sanction of the Governor, might probably be brought into operation. The form of government, as in the Swiss Cantons, need not be in all parts exactly the same, but might be adapted to the wishes and customs of particular tribes : provided that in all cases two fundamental points were adhered to,—that the Chief Magistrates and Councillors should be recommended by the tribe and confirmed by the. Governor, and that all regulations made by them should require the Governor's assent. It would probably be found possible to bring together these Chief Magistrates in a General Council, and any regulations made at such a meeting and assented to by the Governor, might be held to be binding upon all the tribes. This system ought to rest at first upon a voluntary compact, and to be rather offered as a boon than enforced by authority, because while the Native people are thirsting for better government, they are not without fear of oppression. The tone of some of the English newspapers lias given them sufficient reason to expect the usual fate of a race assumed to be inferior." I have compared this with Mr. Fenton's Report, and think that each particular point is in agreement with his system. I have already said that I had not seen Mr. Fenton's report at the time, and it is therefore independent testimony. 1114. Then you think that the Natives could practically have been induced to co-operate in some system of self-government subordinate to and assisted by the Government of the Colony ?— Certainly. 1115. And you do not think that such a system would necessarily have been antagonistic to the King movement ?—No, I think it might either have absorbed the King movement, or have allowed it to remain standing by itself in the midst of other and better systems carried on under the direction of the Government 1116. It has been stated that an opposition to Mr. Fenton's proceedings existed on the part of Potatau and others of the older Chiefs : do you think that was a fatal objection to perseverance with Mr. Fenton's system or some other analogous system, or might not that opposition have been gradually overcome by conciliation, and the experience which the opponents would have had forced upon them by the continuance of such a system ?—I do not think that any plan ought to be abandoned altogether because of any temporary or local opposition. A system such as that recommended by Mr, Fenton is required for the greater part of the Native population, and might I think have been carried out in other parts of the North Island. How far the opposition of Potatau might make it impossible for the time to carry out the plan in Waikato I cannot say, but I think that that opposition might have been overcome. 1117. Chairman.] From your knowledge of the Native character and the state of the Native mind previous to the piesent war, do you think that it could have been easily moulded into any system which had for its object the elevation of the race and its better union and social amalo-a-mation with the Europeans ? —I have reason to think so, because the analogous system carried out by the Missionaries (as referred to by Mr. Fenton), namely of working upon Natives by Natives has been as successful as upon the whole could be reasonably expected. I refer especially to the ordination of Native Clergymen and to the employment of Native teachers. When I first came to New Zealand and for some years afterwards, the Natives were extremely urgent for English Clergymen, and if they were told that they could not be supplied with any other Ministers than those of their own race, they always answered " What is the use of it ? The people will not listen to them." Now on the contrary the Natives are engaged in various parts of the country in raising Endowment Funds for Ministers of their own race. I could mention a few facts as to the amount already received. At Waiapu, Native Endowment Fund, £450, (I exclude everything not given by Natives themselves). Okahu (Hooson's Bay) £200. At Tainui (coast), £50. At Taupiri (Mr. Ashwell's), £60. And the Taranaki tribe (meaning Taranaki in its restricted sense) in the year before the war broke out, paid £20 into Mr. Parris' hands for the same purpose. In addition to these money payments, endowments in land have been offered at Manawatu, Waiuku, and other places, but have not been carried out for want of power on the part of the Government to make Crown Grants for the purpose of endowing Ministers. The inference that I draw from this is, that the Natives are desirous to establish and would contribute to support a system of Government to be carried on by themselves for their own benefit under the direction of a higher authority. 1118. Did any of these pecuniary or land endowments exist previous to the introduction among them of Native teachers and missionaries ?—lt was necessary to make a demonstration. As soon as the first Native clergyman was ordained, the plan of endowments was adopted. I have stated that there was no faith in the possibility of the plan till they saw instances of its effectual working. Then the desire for the benefit of the plan speedily became general. 1119. Mr. Bell} Then the Committee understand that your opinion is that the same capacity in the Native mind which induced them to adopt the plan of endowments for Natiye Ministers, would

Bishop of New Zealand 17 Oct. 1860.

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