E—No. 5a

THE NATIVE OFFENDERS BILL, 1856.

17. Will you state the course you would have taken in that case?—l should have issued a warrant on the offending parties, and should have immediately reported the circumstance to the Government for its consideration; the Government would then have considered whether it was a case which justified using an armed force in putting the warrants into execution at the risk of provoking hostilities. I should have stated, I would not execute it with the means at my disposal; the executing a warrant in that district (Manaia) might lead to hostilities. 18. If the Government thought it not prudent to risk hostile collision for enforcing the warrant? —■ Then I should allow the warrant to lie over until the offending parties came into the settlement, when it could be executed without risk. 19. Now, in the case of a whole tribe implicated in a robbery, would you issue a warrant for the apprehension of all?— Certainly; if 20 Natives were concerned, I would issue 20 warrants; if the Chief himself were concerned, there might be greater difficulty. 20. How would you proceed?—l would recommend that the warrants should remain inoperative until the Offenders came within the limits of the settlements, when they could be apprehended with safety, unless the Government were prepared to accomplish it with a Military force. 21. Provided any such attempt at execution of the warrant was attempted and failed, what effect would it have? —I would not recommend any such extreme measure for fear of failure, which would bring the Government into contempt. 22. Has not the allowing offences to be committed without punishment tended to bring the law into contempt-, is not that the effect on the Native mind now?—l am not prepared to go that length; the non-enforcement of the law would, no doubt, have a tendency to bring the law into contempt, —but I would not attempt to enforce the law without a certainty of success. 23. Can you suggest any alteration of the law as a remedy for the present state of things?—l am not prepared at this moment to offer any suggestion to meet that difficulty; we are in this position — we are the weaker party attempting to coerce the stronger. I think the existing laws are sufficient if carried into effect. I think the influence of the law will increase as Europeans become more numerous in Native districts. 24. Mr. Daldy.] When warrants are out against Native Offenders, do Natives generally assist in their apprehension?—As far as my experience has gone, I don't think Native police are at all instrumental in getting information against Offenders; in the case of Kuka, who committed burglary, the Natives were instrumental in getting him apprehended: and we might rely in many cases on assistance from them. 25. What is your opinion of offering rewards for the apprehension of Offenders?—l think rewards would be the means of causing them to give information; in such a case as the powder a reward would have that effect. 26. In your opinion, does crime increase or decrease among the Maories?—l have not observed any sensible increase or decrease of crime amongst the Natives. 27. What is your opinion of the practicability of carrying out this measure ?—I think the introduction of the Native Offenders Bill would be injurious, because it could not be carried out, and that would have a tendency to bring the law into contempt. 28. Would it be practicable to put in force the seizing produc°, canoes, and crews of vessels coming to town?— Nothing would be more simple; I have already seized two or three vessels for debt. 29. Suppose the case of vessels which conveyed the powder?—l do not think there would be any difficulty about that; I dont know that there would be anything objectionable in that. 30. Mr. Williamson.] The Resident Magistrate alone has power to issue Warrants: would it be safe to allow that power to be exercised by Justices of the Peace?—l do not think it would be prudent : the Kawau is within my jurisdiction as Resident Magistrate. No information has been lodged against the stealers of the powder at the Kawau. Ordinary warrants have been issued. I should not have hesitated to apprehend the Offenders within the precincts of the town. 31. Would you have put such Warrants in force? —I should haye issued the Warrants, but suspended the execution, except within the limits of the town. I would apprehend any I could get hold of. I think that if the Natives felt that there was a risk of their vessels being forfeited, that would induce them to give up the Offenders and restore the property. 32. Might not a law to that effect be salutary?—l think such a law might be carried into effect without risk of failure; that seemed to me the only intermediate course I would recommend. Mr. Beckham then withdrew. Major Nugent in attendance. 1. What is your Military rank? —I am Major in the 58th Regiment. 2. How long have you resided in New Zealand?—l have been resident in New Zealand since July, 1845, except six mouths. During a portion of that time I was acting Native Secretary under Sir George Grey. 3. Have you made yourself acquainted with the Bill now under consideration? —I have seen the Bill brought into the General Assembly. In my opinion the Governor ought to be strengthened by some enactment of the kind. 4. Would you put the law in force under the present circumstances?—l can see no way of putting the law in force against Offenders who defy the law, and abscond, without sending a body of Troops after them.

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