EVIDENCE TAKEN IN SELECT COMMITTEE ON

57. Would it have the effect of causing disaffection among the traders?—l could give no positive answer. 58. Would not the prohibition, if confined to British subjects, from trading with the Natives in particular districts, as Taranaki, be sufficiently efficacious?—lt would to a great extent meet the law; but, in reference to Taranaki, the Natives of the Chatham Islands can with impunity bring supplies there. 59. Mr. Williamson.] Would the Natives get supplies from other places?— Yes, I think they would. 60. With regard to the Manai district (Coromandel), you say it would be practicable to proscribe that district; would it be practicable to confine the Offenders within that district?—No, it would not be practicable to confine them within that district. 61. How many miles is it (Manai) from Auckland?— About 42 miles. 62. Would it be possible for the proscribed Natives to visit Auckland and obtain supplies without being recognised and identified?—l think it would be difficult for them to visit Auckland if there was any vigilance on the part of the police. 63. If they wanted to obtain supplies could they do so without being detected?— They could, as I have stated, evade the strict letter of the law to some extent; my impression is that the adjoining tribes would assist in carrying out the law, —in fact I have related instances in which they have done so of their own accord. 64. You say the natives are in favour of some such law, —have they derived the idea from their own law of Tapu? —I cannot say how the idea originated; they spoke of it long before the Bill was proposed, immediately after the powder was stolen: they have done so repeatedly whenever any tribe has committed any offence. 65. Are they attached to commerce, and would stopping trade act as a punishment?—l think that it would have the effect of bringing them to reason quieter than any other order of punishment. Resort to war is rather agreeable to their own habits and ideas. This Bill would, I think, effect the same object as war, without its risk and expense. 66. From what you know of the Chiefs generally, are they disposed to maintain law?—ln districts ceded to the English, they consider that they have so far incorporated themselves with Europeans that they feel a greater interest in carrying out and enforcing the law. 67. When offences of this kind are committed by young men of any tribe, is it followed by any sign of displeasure? —-Yes, almost invariably,—the punishment was principally death, except in the case of disaffected tribes. When Chiefs are well affected towards Europeans, they would punish offenders. 68. Are they now in the habit of inflicting punishment, short of death?—l know several, I will relate one where a Native had stolen some goods from a European, and the Chief to whom he belonged demanded that he should pay a penalty of thirty pounds for the offence, failing his ability to do so that he should seize his horse, which was the only property he had. 69. In such a case, if a warrant was issued for the apprehension of the offender, would the Chief of his tribe be disposed to surrender him up to justice?—ln cases where they were well disposed they would, not where they were disaffected. 70. How in the case where the Chief was favourable and the tribe disaffected?— They might then have great difficulty. 71. Supposing it necessary to proscribe such a district, would the Chief be liable to the penalties of the law?—He would, of course. 72. In such a case how would rewards operate?— Hitherto the system of rewards has been found inoperative; the Natives do not like, as it were, to sell one of themselves, like a parcel of goods or merchandize. Mr. Commissioner McLean then withdrew. Francis Dart Fenton, Esq. (Native Secretary), Charles Oliver Davis (as Native Interpreter), and the Native Chiefs — Whare Aitu, Taraia, Epiha Titawa, Te Kawau, Paora Tv Haere, Te Keene. Te Puru, Maka Hapu, Paraone Terangi {Kaipara), Te Wiremu Reweti Te Whenua, Hone Ropiha {John Hobbs), in attendance. 1. The Chairman.] Mr. Davis, have the kindness to ask the Chiefs—What law do you think should be made for such offences as the powder robbery? Paora.] What law has been made? 2. Chair.] There is a law, —but how can we make it take effect? Paora.] The white man must think about that. 3. Chair.] Would it be well to prevent trading with offending tribes? Paora.] We don't quite know. The offending tribes come to town to buy blankets, tobacco. They would get supplies from other tribes from the town. Natives are so like each other that they could not be discerned buying. We (Ngatiwhatua) brought the Governor and white men here, and, therefore, we adhere to him and the white men. 4. Chair.] If these offenders brought their vessels to town, should they be seized? Paora.] They should be captured. 5. Chair.] Would that be just? All the Chiefs.] Yes, it is just. Taraia.] We all agree; the offenders, however, would not come to town, they would be afraid. 6. Chair.] Would the fear of that punishment prevent offences of this nature (the powder cse) Paora.] Yes. All the Chiefs.] It is true,

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