E—No 5

NATIVE OFFENDERS BILL, 1860.

9. Did not the loyal tribes of Waikato suggest to Mr. Fenton that the millers (European) should be withdrawn from the turbulent tribes? Kahore ano au i rongo. I have not heard so. 10. Did not you suggest this yourself three years ago? Kahore rawa. Not at all. 11. [Mr. Domett ] Supposing war to have broken out with one tribe, would not the stoppage of their trade with other tribes help to make them sooner tired of their rebellion? Ko te iwi kino i waenganui i nga iwi pai, me korero c nga iwi pai kia whakamutua tona tutu ; ki <c kore ratou c whakaromro mai ki nga korero a aua iwi pai erua nei, me whakat.ki kite taonga. Let the bad tribes that are in the midst of good tribes be aavised by the good tribes to cease their misconduct, and if they do not listen to the words of those two good tribes, then let supplies be kept from them. 12. [Mr. Richmond.] Do you not recollect going to Whatawhata in 1857 with Fenton. Takerei, Mohi, Panapa,Te Reweti, and Fenton were talking about the people who adhered to the King, and you all *aid, " Recall the millers and stop the traffic" ? — Ka tika. Katahi ka inahara au. Te take i puta ai ten. kupu, he tohenga no matou kia kaua he Kingi, engari me waiho ite man. Maori. Na, tohe tonu ratou ki ta ratou Kingi, koia ka puta o matou whakwro i taua takiwa, kia tangohia nga Pakeha he huri paraoa, lie hanga mira ano, kia whakamutua hoki te hoatu taonga mo taua iwi tohe kite Kingi Maori; kia kaua nga Pakeha c tahim atu ki a ratou taonga, kite whiti, kite p.raoi, kite poaka, kite riwai, kite muka. Na taua taha Kingi aua taonga, kia kaua c paingia c nga Pakeha. . It is correct. I now remember. The cause of that word being uttered was, our that thee should be no King; that matters should remain according to the " mana Maori; they insisted upon having their King; we therefore gave it as our opinion at that tune, that the Pakeha millers and millwrights should be recalled, and that the giving of goods to those who were striving for the Maori king should cease; that the Pakehas should not purchase any of their pioperty-their wheat, flour, pigs, potatoes, or flax. It was those things that belonged to the King party, that were not to be accepted by the Pakeha. 13 [Mr. Forsaith.] At Whatawhata you expressed an opinion favourable to the proposal of •topping the trade with the Natives, who were striving about the King; but now you disapprove of •topping the supplies of Natives disaffected to the Government. What has induced you to change your opinion? , Tcnei te mea i whakaaro ai au inaianei. Ka hua ahau, heoi ano te tino raruraru mo matou mo nga iwi Maori ko te Kingi anake, no te mea hoki, c ma rami ake ana ano i au taua raruraru Kingi. I whakaaro au ki reira, c kore c tupu te kino i runga i taua tikanga Kingi nei; i muri iho I taua tikanga, ka tnpu ko te kino. Na k inei au i mea ai kia tukua nga taonga ki nga iwi tutu, he whakaaro noku kei tino nui rawa te kino ki to tatou motu. E mea ana au ko te kino kia mate lte pai. Heoi. v This is why lam of that opinion now. I had supposed that the King (movement) itself, was the greatest trouble that we the Maori tribes would experience, for that King difficulty'was clear to me. I thought then that evil would not spring up in connexion with that King movement Put since that, evil has sprung up; I therefore say, Let goods be supplied to the disaffected tribes; my thought is, lest evil should spread in our island. I think that evil should be •übdued by good. Enough. 14. [Mr Richmond.] In cases of disobedience to magistrates (in times of peace—ordinary times) would it be well that the magistrate should be able to write to the Governor and ask him to stop goods, &c, to the people of the village protecting the offender? E pai ana ano kia kore he taonga ki taua hapu nana i pupuru i te tangata he l runga l te kupu I whakaartia c nga kai-whakawa kia mau kite whare-herehere; no te mea hoki, ka takahi ratou l nga ture l whakatakotoria hei pai ki runga ki nga iwi M.ori, Pakeha hoki. I whakaae ai ahau kia kaua he taonga ki taua iwi, no te mea lioki, mar ama ake ai au, ekore c nui te raruraru k, runga ki taua ritenga. O >iia, ekore c pai mo tenei takiwa enei ture ; engari mo te takiwa c mate ai te tara o te ngakau ; engari me waiho mo te rangimarie. Ii would be well not to supply goods to the tribe who kept back the man, when the word of the magistrate was given that he should be conveyed to prison; as then they would be trampling upon ide law which has been laid down for the benefit of ihe Maori and Pakeha races. I agree that goods should be kept from that people because it is clear to me that there would be no great difficulty about that movement. But this law would not do at the present time; it would, when the obstinacy of the heart is subdued. Better leave it for peacetul times. 15. In time of war, would it not be well to do the same thing (i.e., sop the trade with those resisting the law) if the friendly chiefs of influence round about the disaffected district advised it to be done, and agreed to aid the Governor in stopping the trade ? Kahore; tenei te mea i whakaaro ai au—kotahi rangatira o nga hapu c noho pai ana, c whakaae ana kia purua te taonga ki nga iwi tutu; kotahi rangatira o nga iwi c noho p?i ana, kia

7