(BY TELEGRAPH—PRESS ASSOCIATION.)

Waikato Times, Volume XXXVII, Issue 2985, 1 September 1891, Page 2

(BY TELEGRAPH—PRESS ASSOCIATION.)

Wellington, Last Night. Mr Bryce has requested the Association to make the following correction in the early portion of his speech, made on being recalled to the House on Thursday evening :— "If he had used the word in the offansivs sense tho Premier understood it, he (Mr Bryce) should be "ashamed" of himself. He did not. If he did any member or any man an injury, willingly or unwillingly, wheu it was pointed out to him, as a matter of consequence he was " ashamed " of himself, and the result of that shame, as far as he was concerned, and so far as any gentleman was concerned, was to try and make atonement for the conscious or unconscious injury he had done to him."

The House met at 2.30 p.m. Mr Rees asked the Premier whether if Mr Bryco would agree to withdraw tho words used by him on Thursday, and which wero declared by the Speaker to be unparliamentary, the Government would give facilities for a further consideration of the question, and if desired for expunging the vote of censure passed on him by tho House. Mr Ballance sjid the Government would be prepared to give every facility for coniideriDg the question further, and if the Kouso desired it an opportunity would be afforded of excising the resolution passed on the member for Waikato on Thursday last. Mr Scobie Mackenzie said he wished to call the Speaker's attention to four points on which he should ask him his ruling. In doing so, he asked whether the proceedings on Thursday night were not so irregular that no member ought to be condemned for what occurred. The Speaker had only pronounced Mr Bryce's words to be technically a blunder, from which it might bo inferred that actually they were not so. The word •' ashamed " had been used on the previous evening without any check from the chair. Upon English authorities he arguod that according to the Speaker's own ruling tho words were so trivial that there ought to have been a delay in taking them down so that Mr Bryce would have had an opportunity to explain before being condemned. The motion to take down the words ought, according to precedent, have been allowed to be discussed, so that Mr Bryce could have had every chance to explain, and, if necessary, to withdraw and apologise. No such opportunity for discussion had been given. Again, when the words were taken down' the offending member had the right to have them read to him, to deny that they were the words he used, and the question ought then to bo put to the House to decide what his words really were. His fourth point, again upon authority, was that if the House dpemed the explanations satisfactory, no further proceedings would bo necessary. In thiß case condemnation was pronounced first, and the explanation came after it. Tho indictment was faulty, and following the example of the lower courts, this, the highest court in the colony, could proceed to quash it. Mr Seddon referred to the first point raised by Mr Mackenzie, namely, that the Speaker had declared the words used by Mr Bryce were trivial in character, and asserted that the Speaker said nothing of the kind. What he did state was that if the additional words which Mr Bryce said he intended using had been used, it would have modified the matter somewhat. He wished to remind the Houso that the Premier on the occasion referred to was not at all excited, but was speaking on the question in a calm, dispassionate manner asking the House to uphold the Speaker's ruling when Mr Bryce told him he ought to be ashamed of himself. Then Mr McKenzie stated that the sains words had been u.-ied frequently in the House, and the Speaker had not called the member using them to order. Ha disputed that altogether, and pointed out that similar words had been more than once ruled unparliamentary by tho Speaker. In reply to Mr Mackenzie's next point, Mr Seddon contended that the words used by Mr Bryce were ordered to be taken down in the usual way, and as to Mr Mackenzie's last point, that Mr Bryce had not been asked to make an explanation, he submitted that that explanation was giveu before he left the chamber.

Sir John Hall thought if an opportunity had been afforded Mr Bryca at the proper time to make an explanation, he would no doubt have made a satisfactory one.

Dr. Newman called attention to an expression used last week by the member for Christchurch (Mr Taylor), and asked whether a member was allowed to state that the ruling of tho Speaker was unfair. He thought a more insolent expression was never used in the House than that, and yet nothing was said about it. In tho present case, however, because the leader of the Opposition was concerned an attempt was made to drivo him out of the Houso for a less trivial offence.

Mr Rolleston contended that an honourable member who was on his trial before the High Court of Parliament, yhould no); be condemned before every opportunity was given him to defend himself. That oppor-

tmiity was not given Mi- Uryco in accordance with Parliamentary ruins. Mr l'"i-h was snrpr ; s-?d thai till Opposition should try to got Mr liryci: out of a difficulty of his own creating. After further discussion the Speaker gave his ruling. He said that when asked \iy ".lie Premier whether or not the words ined liy Mr Bryce were Parliamentary, lie had r.iled in the negative, and quoted from Hansard of the House of Commons to :ihow that the Speaker of that chamber had ruled a similar expression out. of order. Mr Bryco bavins' also refused to withdraw tho words complained of, when saying ho would take (lie consequences, clearly indicated that he would not withdraw tho words if called upon to do so, and lie (tho Speaker) was more convinced of that from the fact that Mr Bryce had invariably shown tho greatest respect and deference to the chair. If Mr Bryce, when stating that the Premier should be ashamed of himself, had used tho words "for relying on a technicality," it would, no doubt, have minimised the effect of his remarks. As to the two other points raised hy Mr Mackenzie, he said the words used l>y Mr Biyce were taken down hy his (tho Speaker's) direction, under their own standing orders; and, further, that the words were read and Mr Bryco made his explanation. With reference to the fourth point, whether after Mr Bryce's "tateinent had been made it should not be sufficient for Mio House to accept it. he said Mr Bryce had made no explanation of his action. He maintained there was no failure of order on tho occasion referred to. He regretted very much what had occurred, and ho should he only too glid to offer his services in order to effect a reconciliation. Mr Rolleston said before ha discharged tho painful duty which had been entrusted to him by the member for Waikato, he should like to know whether the Premier had any communication to make to the House, in view of the fact that tho present question affected the honour of the House and the country. Mr Ballanco replied that a very clear ruling had just been given by the Speaker, and he was glad to hear his intention that ho should do what he could to bring about a reconciliation. The Speaker had also stated that he thought Mr Bryce ought in some way to recognise the authority of the chair. He felt sure he expressed the sentiment of every member of tho House when he said there was tto desire to inflict on Mr Bryce any humiliation whatever, and if any approach were made by Mr Bryce to the Speaker, it would, he was convinced, be quite satisfactory to the House. In that case he should be the first to move that the vote of censure passed by the House should bo rescinded. No one regretted more than he (Mr Ballance) what had taken place. He should suggest an adjournment of the question in order to afford an opportunity for tho Speaker to consult with Mr Bryce to see if some arrangement could bo made. If desirable, an adjournment could be made till 7 30 p.m. Mr Rolleston said a very great responsibility rested on him in connection with this matter, but he did not think the member for Waikato should come to Parliament as a suppliant. He then handed the Speaker Mr Bryce's resignation of his seat as a member of the House, which was duly read to the House by the Speaker. Mr Ballance said it was with great regret he rose to movo that a writ be issued for the election of a member for tho electoral district of Waikato. Mr Rolleston said he wished to move as an addition to that motion "That the following resolution passed by the House be expunged, that the House regret that the words were used by the honourable member for Waikato, although qualified as they were by the addition of subsequent words." He thought it was not too late yet for the House to do justice to Mr Bryco. He stated that Mr Bryco felt he was asserting a great truth when he uttered the words complained of, and he felt he would be doing wrong if he withdrew the technicality that he felt was not properly dealt with. If the addition to the resolution were carried, he (Mr Bryce) would have the satisfaetion of knowing that the House resented the indignity put upon him. Mr Ballance thought the House would agree that the honourable gentleman was taking a very unreasonable course. Ho moved that an adjournment be made till 7.30. This was agreed to and the House rose at 4.30. The House resumed at 7.30. p.m. Mr Ballance said he regretted he could not accept Mr Rolleston's amendment, as he considered it was too late. As far as he (Mr Ballance) and his side of the House were concerned, they thought tho Speaker's offer a reasonable way out of the difficulty they had got into. Sir John Hall refetred to the important and valuable services Mr Bryce had rendered to the colony, and said the question now was whether since Mr Bryce had ceased to hold the honorable position of a member ot the House they should still allow the vote of censure to remain over hitn. He felt sure that the House would express the opinion of the colony if it removed the stigma that now rested on Mr Bryce. Mr Scobie McKenzie wished to say that he dissented altogether from the condemnation that had been passed on Mr Bryce. The words that had been used by Mr Bryce had been used by himself (Mr McKenzie), and others, and only a night or two ago Mr Rolleston had stated that the Minister for Lands would, on reflection, be " ashamed " of himself for making certain statements in the Houso. What he wanted to point out was that a remark which the Speaker himself had not asked to be withdrawn on that ocaasion should now be made the ground work on which the Government had caused a solemn vote of censure to be passed on a gentleman holding the important office of leader of the Opposition. He thought it should be made known to the colony that the expression used by Mr Bryce for which he was punished was in answer to the Premier's lino of action in defending one of the grossest and moat odious charges ever made in the House—charges made against a man of stainless character and respected by the whole House. Ho reminded the House that the Minister for Lands, who had uttered the vilest slander against an hon. member—not his own charges,but those of a man whose name ha refused to give, and whose authority was said to be a dead man's—that that Minister still sat on the Governmeht benches, while Mr Bryce, for a very minor offence, indeed, had been driven out of the House. The other side of the House called themselves Liberals, but the very name of Liberty was now unknown in the colony, owing to the action ot the Government and their supporters. Mr ieo. Hutchison folt that a mistake had been made in this matter, which the Honse now should not refuse to rectify. Mr O'Conor thought Mr Bryce meant no disrespoct to the chair iu the words he had used, and the words could not be held to be offensive unless used in an offensive sense, Mr Fisher said while one of the members could use certain words, another set of members according to party customs could use much more offensive words and no notice bo taken of them. For instance one member said a few nights ago, he was utterly and entirely disgusted with the Government, and nothing further was heard of the statement. Mr Ross thought Mr Bryce's action in resigning his seat was a continuance of his defiance of the rules of the House, and he did not see that the House was called upon to reverse the decision it had formerly given. Mi Swan considered the whole proceeding the most discreditable of any that has ever taken place in the Australasian colonies. Mr Rolleston's addition to the Premier's motion for the issuo of a nmv writ for the election of a member for Waikato was then put and lost by 34 to 26, the division being as follows: — For Rolleston's addition (2G): Buchanan, Bnckland, Duthie, Fergus, Fisher, Grey, Hall, Hamlin, Harkness, Hutchison, Kapa, Lawry, McKenzie, M. J. S. Mackenzie, T. Moore, Newman, O'Conor, Richardson, Rolleston, Russell, Swan, Taipua, Thompson, J. W. Valentine, Wilson, Wright. Against Rolleston's amendment: (34) Ballance, Buick, Cadman, Carncross, Duncan, Earnshaw, Fish, Fraser, Guinness, HallJones, Hogg, Houston, Hutchison, W, Joyce, Kelly, J. Kelly, W. Macdonald, Mackintosh, J, McKenzie, Meredith, Mills, Pa rata, Percival, Pinkerton, Rees, Reeves, R! H. J. Reeves W. P., Saunders, Seddon, Shera, Smith. E. M. Smith, W. C. Tanner, Taylor. Pairs for Rolleston's addition, Mitchalson, McArthur, Rhodes. Against: Ward, McGuire, Dawson. Tho Premier's motion was then apreod to. (BI TELEGRAPH.—OWN CORRESPONDENT ) Wellington, Last Night. The principal topic of discussion during the last few days has been tho unfair treatment to which Mr Bryco has been subjected by the House and tho Government, and the feeling is almost universal here that owjng to this miserable party squabble, the colony has lost the services

iif mi able, upright and cou-ci- 11Li.>u.-- j:■ ■ iitician. Up to the hour of milling tliiaft'Tilo in hnp»s wwn I hat !'i" Government would male' «.iiib move towards expunging tlio vot.> i.f censure passed on the member f■ >r W.iikito Sa-i. Thursday, and it was ge-;--riiiy believed that Sir George <Jroy would move in that direction as soon as tll(.> Ho'iv met. to day. Sir George, howßvur, mid'- im .-,' go, lin', his lieutenant (Mr Rees) aske I tin; I'i^rni--i whether if Mr Bryce would withdraw th -. words used jy him and declared hv th-: Sp-akei- to be unparliamentary the (loverninent would in that ease give facilities for passing a motion rescinding t.lie resolution pisso l last Thurs lay and expungim: it from the records of I'arliament,, Mr Kallance replied if the v/urds were withdrawn by Mr Brycu the liovernment would givo facilities for the consi.Jer.it ion of the question and if tho House desired they could also afford an opportunity for rescinding (lie motion. A lengthy discussion then followed in tho course <if which .Mr llulleston handed in Air Brycd s resignation of his seat to the Speaker. Mr of course had tho written resignation of the mombor for WaiIcato in his pocket all tho afternoon tn be used if he thought desirable, and it was only on being convinced hy the attitude of tho Premier that the Government were determined if possible to humiliate Mr Bryce '«,y iti-istintr on an apology of somu kind that Mi- Itolleston took the course ho did, it being well known for the last day or two that Mr Brvce had n it the slightest intention of withdrawing his words as ho very properly considered himself the aggrieved party. GOVERXAIKXT CAUCUS. A meeting nf the Government party was held in the Cabinet room this afternoon at five o'clock to consider Mr Rolleston's amendment to the motion for the issue of a now writ for tho Waikato olectorate. There were forty present. Mr 8.-vllnnce presided, and road the amendment, which purported to expunge the resolution passed against. Mr 15ryee.— Mr Ballance said ha left it with the party to say whether they would accept or reject the amendment. lie was personally very sorry that Mr JJryco had resigned ; hut Mr liryce had refused to obey the ruling of the. chair, and lie (Mr Ballance) was compelled to uphold llie chair, which he did without any personal feeling. The olive branch had been held out by the Speaker, and he. had accepted it; but tho Opposition had refused, unless the House would become absolutely subservient to Mr Bryce. This they could not, do.—Mr Rees contended that they could not stultify themselves hy accepting such an amendment, especially on its being moved by one who was now tho leader of the Opposition.—Mr Fish said that if such an amendment were accepted, it would simply mean that the motion they had passed on Mr Brvce was wrong. This the House would not admit, as they were all of opinion they did right in supporting the chair.—Mr J. Palmer said that now Mr Bryce had resigned he thought they ought to expunge the resolution. As it was Air Bryco's farewell to politics, they should all wish him to leave under less paintul circumstances. —This was opposed by all the others present, except Mr Carroll, who agreed with Mr Palmer.—Tho other members, however, contended that this would show a weakness 011 tho part of the Government. Some said that before the end of the session tlie.y would he willing to expunge the resolution, but they would not do so on the present amendment, which would encourage defiance by members to the Speakei's ruling.—Air Pinkerton moved and Mr Buiclc seconded: "That the amendment bo negatived without discussion, as this was the only way to uphold the dignity of the House." This was carried unanimously.—Air Palmer and Air Carroll refused to vote when the division was taken in the House.