HOUSE OF REPRESENTATINES.

Waikato Times, Volume XXXVII, Issue 2963, 11 July 1891, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATINES.

WEDNESDAY. Mr Duthie then moved his amendment as follows :— " That the financial proposals of the Government would be more in accordance with tho general wishes of the people if tho surplus estimated to bo Available by tho Financial Statement were devoted to the reduction of taxation on the uecessaries of life." He strongly urged the necessity of an amendment of this kind, Mr I'.allance asked the leader of the Oppoiition whether this amendment was moved with his approval or not? Mr Bryco emphatically said the motion was not meant «s one of want of confidence. The general feeling of tho Opposition was that tho motion w mid bo a proper ouo for Iho House to agree to. Mr Biilhuico considered tha reply waa not satisfactory, as it evidently meant the motion was one of want of confidence. The Government, however, wero determined not to allow their proposals to bo traversed in that mat.ner, and they would not debate it. Ho believed the working classes would see through a motion of this kind. Mr Scobie Mackenzie contended if it were a vote of want of confidence, Mr 1' ish had brought it ou th* l Government by his amendment expressing confidenco in the Government. Mr Richardson said ha had askod for a return to state tho details of expenditure of thousands of pounds spent by the Stock Department without authority from Wellington, as stated by the Minister for Lands. A return had been laid on tho table that afternoon which he (Mr Richardson) said was a lying document, and did not contain fche information asked for. Mr John McKenzie replied that Mr Richardson had got the exact return he moved for, and tho fact was the hon. gontloniau had got more than he wanted. After further discussion, Mr Duthie's amendment was put and lost by 38 to IG. Mr Fisli's amendment was then carried on the voices, and the House wont into Committee of Supply. The House rose at 1.00 a.m. THURSDAY, Mr Tanner resumed the debate on the Financial Statement, generally supporting tho Government proposals. He waß speaking at the half-past five adjournment. The House resumed at half-past seven.

Sir George Grey said lie Ind heard great satisfaction expressed throughout New Zealand at tho personnel of the Parliament which had been'sent to Wellington. He impressed upon tho members that they must endeavour to fulfil the anticipations which hud been formed of them. Those olectad tr tho present Parliament had to consider whether or not they were returned to impose a tax on the unearned increment. It must bo admitted they had been so. They wero told it would be impossible to impose any tax on land except so high that the owner* of those lands would be involved in ruin ; but that was a subject upon which they should not conccm themselves. Their duty was to impose a tax that would provide that large tracts of land should bear their proper burdens of taxation, and the masses of tho people would roquire that this should bo done. The proposed income tax was strongly opposed in certain quarters but ho felt sure the property tax was nure likely to lead to fraud than the income tax. Ha would ask tho House to consider that the tax upon incomes was drawn from incomes realised iu the country. They were told that those who draw money from New Zealand by annual payment made on bonds should not be subject to the income tax, but why should one class of persons bo exempted? Tho nation was not a nation of freomen when a law of that kind existed He asked, therefore, that this question #hould be fairly discussed. He felt convinced the colony had suffered much from the Legislative Council, ai:d he thought it was tho duty of the House to at once abolish that chamber. He had hoped that this session would have been signalised by tho abolition of the Upper House—a boon which would be greatly appreciated by the country. Mr Percival said that after careful consideration of the new taxation pnposab he had tnine to tho conclusion that tho Treasurer would get more revenue than under the property tax. As to the proposals of the Government, generally, ho agreed with Heveral other speakers that it was unfair to impose a graduated tax on improvements. He also disagreed with a differential income tax, and lie thought there should be no exception for small investments on mortgage. Next session the Government, he hoped, would take into consideration the question of local taxation, and would correct anomalies in the tariff. What wa* badly wanted was a proper system of local government.

Mr Seddon did not think it wou'd be honourable on tho part of the House to impose a tax on the bondholders, and as a mattor of honour they could not agree to such a proposal. A great deal had been said by the Opposition as to the Government proposals, but they had not discussed them in detail, which, lie thought, showed they were sound in principle. They wore told that tho proposals of tho Government were forced on them, an 1 that Sir George Orey would make them show their hand. That was a stigma cast on one who had been consistent in fighting for the riplits of the people. The Government looked on Sir George Grey as a tower of strength to them, and they looked to hi'n to assist thein in carrying their proposals. They did not, however, fear Sir George (>rey, nor did they fear the hon. gentlemen opposito. Mr Fergus had told ♦he House that any Government with which Mr Ballance was connected had landed the country in financial disaster, but Mr Seddon assorted that when the Premier left the Grey Government in 187S tho finances wero in a sound condition. Alluding to the question of retrenchment, lie ■aid there was not the slightest foundation..; for tho chargo that police-inspectors were dismissod because they were Protestant. When the present Government took oflice, ill the Public Works Department alono forty officers had to be rotired, there being no work for them to do. Mr Fergus told the llousu time after time that the Public Works Department should be abolished, tut the fact was, it was strongor to-day than before the time whon the late Minister irat mado that statement. He claimed that the proposals of the Government with reference to tho large ostates were fair and moderate in the extreme, and owners would do well to accept them to avoid more sweeping proposals being brought down. He defended the action of the Ministers in visiting various parts of the colony during the recess, and asserted that but for those visits many thousands of pounds would have been lost to the colony, as it was only by pursuing this course that Ministers wero able to ascertain how much retrenchment could be effected. The Government did not propose to ask for any increase in the defence vote, as they were of opinion that thousands of pounds had been thrown away in the Defence Department. Mr Smith (Waipawa) moved tho adornment of the debate, which was agreed to, and the House rose at a q*arter past one a.m.

FRIDAY. The House met at 2.80 p.m. The Public Petitions Committee reported ou the petition of Mr W. S. Allen, who lately contested thoTe Aroha seat, for the removal of the disqualification which had been imposed on him. The report was to the effect that as Mr Allen was nob liable for any net done by his agent. It was desirablo that tho stigma of disqualification be rouioved from him, and tho Government was requested to bring in a Bill to this effect. Replying to Mr Newman, Mr Ward said that if any bona fide offers were made to the Government respecting tenders for the right of advertising upon stamps and telegraph forms, they would be favourably eutertained.

Replying to Mr Palmer, Mr Sucidou Haiti the Government had written to the Imperial Government on the nubject of the appointment of an Imperial officer to command the forces, and a sum was now on the estimated to provide a salary for that officer. There was no commander of forces at present as Lient. Col. Hume was simply actinpf as Under Secretary for Defence. Mr Smith (Waipawa) resumed the debate on the Financial Statement, and strongly supported the Government proyonalß as being iu accordance with the v«r-

diet of the country at the last general elec tion.

Captain Russell merely wished to say that ho believed ha had a complete answer to the allegation the Defence Minister had made against him last night. When tho estimates were before the House he should bo prepared to reply to the charges made as to his administration whilst in the late Government. He denied altogether Mr Seddon's imputation that he had referred some time ago to his future colleagues in contempt. He miifht say he had always consistently stuck to his party, and he appealed to Mr Ballance to wind up the debate and the Opposition would offer no objection at all to his doing so. Mr Ballance said ho should comply with C ipt. Russell's suggestion and rose to replyCapt, Russell further suggested that the Premier should postpone his remarks till 7.00. This was agreed to, and the House rose at -1.30 p.m. The House resumed at 7.30.

Mr Ballance began by referring to the Bills that were to give effect to the Government policy and ho would say at once that the Bills had not yet received their final revision and that being so the Government wero not in a position to bring them down. They had also learned during the debate that certain genttlemen in the colony who would be affected by tho graduated scale of tax were desirous of getting out of the contract and one reason which justified the Government in holding back their measure was in order that they might devise some scheme by which those individuals should not escape their fair share of taxation. It bad been asserted that the present surplus was due t:> tho late Government and that bad been said by a Freetrader of the House, but lie contended that the producing ■nergies of the people of the colony were responsible for the surplus and not i.he machinations of the late Colonial Treasurer. It was not the duty of the Treasurer to provide a large surplus, although, of course, he was always applauded for a surplus of any kind. With respect to Mr McArthur's speech, he asserted it was full of inaccuracies, as far as figures in the Financial Statement were concerned. That hon. gentleman had stated that subsidies to local bodies were paid before they were demanded, in order to reduce the surplus. That was not correct, and he should know it was not. On every point indeed on which he had challenged the Government finance he had broken down. They were told they might not get the sinking funcfebut unless the Bank of England broke or repudiated its engagements, they wculd get it. With regard to the charge made by Mr Newman about tho large amount of Deficiency Bills issued by the present Government, he explained that it was due to a little trick performod by the late Treasurer, namely, that on the 31st March, 1890, £200,000 of the Deficiency Bills were paid off, and on the Ist April, 1890 (next day) they were reissued. How could the present Government be blamed for that ? Coming to the postage question, he argued that the whole #ommunity would benefit by the reduction on the noeossaries of life, and ho said he had never heard the honourable gentlemen opposito express any solicitation on that point before. His opinion was that tho Grey Ministry was the only Government that had reduced the taxation on the necessaries of life, as they had made no less than £100,000 reduction on tea and sugar. The Government policy had found favour with their party on the whole, and he was confident they would be able to give effect to it. As to the totalisator tax, he contended that it would tend to kill gambling and also kill racing, aud ho cited the fact that the increased duty on spirits at Home had decreased tho consumption of liquor. With respect to retrenchment, he claimed the Go- ' vernment had effected a saving this year of £-11,000. and stated they had dispensed with 115 hands in all. It was true some increase »f salaries had been made in the estimates, but that was on account of the amalgamation of offices. No policy could be carried out in a few months, and it was therefore unreasonable to expect the Government to do much in the short time they had been in office. The hon. gentleman next spoke at some length on the land question and the necessity to hold out some inducement to people to settle ou the land. If the hon. geutlemon opposite were sincere in their desire to put small settlers on the land, why did they not advocate that some of the enormous estates in Canterbury which were admirably adapted for small farms should be acquire.! by the Government for settlement purposes. As to loaus he might tell the House that the Government were ODly carrying out arrangements made by their predecessors for the conversion of the current loans. The Government were of opinion that borrowing in bier lots would be most dangerous and risky for the next few years, and Ministers were studying the interests of the country in that direction. They wished to preserve the good name of the colony especially aftor the example they had of Queensland and other colonies. It was said the Government wanted to burst up the large estates, but what they wanted to do was to make them pay their proper *hare of taxation to the revenue of the country in a legitimate way. The effect of their policy might probably be to restrict the How of capital to large estates, but yet It would also surely tend iu tho direotien of assistiug the small estates. The Government were convinced they would be able to obtain the rovenue they required, but they had one reservation, and that wa» that before they were called upon to impose a tax they will have ascertained by triennial property assessment, so that they would bo able to say exactly what amount would be realised, and it would be for those to decide what the rate should bo. As to the absentee question, he had always held those people should be taxed, but he thought as they were absentees aud not improvers they might be reached by graduated scales, however the questions might very well be left iu the meantime. In conclusion he said it was their duty to legislate for tho good of the country and the Government would keep that object steadily in view. The motion that the Speaker leave chair was then agreed to and the House went into Committee of Supply but progress was reported immediately, The House went into Committee on Allen's Act Amendment Bill, whicb was reported without amendment. The House rose at 10.3 r > p.m,