MR LABOUCHERE ON THE HOUSE OF LORDS.

Waikato Times, Volume XXVI, Issue 2170, 5 June 1886, Page 1 (Supplement)

MR LABOUCHERE ON THE HOUSE OF LORDS.

Is the Hou«oof Commons recently, on the motion to go into Committee of Supply, Mr Labouchero, who was received with Liberal cheers from below tho gangway, moved— "That, in the opinion of thi« Hou«e, it is inconsistent with tho principles of representative government that any member of either Home of tho Legislature should derive his title to legislate by virtue of hereditary descent." He said he hoped the Prime Minister would allow them to vote on this snbjort according to its merits, and that it would be treatod as an open question by those who silt on the Treasury benches, many of whom entirely agreed with the motion. He had no doubt they were delighted when they saw he had put it down — (laugbtor) — and that they wero most anxious find oager to voto for it, He would remind hon. members from Ireland that there were grievances on this side of the Channel, and he asked that hereditary legislation should be treated here a* they would treat the Cnstio in Ireland. Lord Beaconsfipld, speaking of the House of Lords, Raid that it practically represented 26 millions of the people of this country who iiad not Totes. No Conservative could raise that argument at present, for that electorate had been taken away from the other House, and the decisions of the House of Commons were to all intents and purposes the decisions of the whole country. Such an argument was only possible when representative government was a mere sham. The country had now become a Democracy, and hereditary legislators were a mere anachronism in a democracy. (Hear, hear.) There were Liberals, perhaps, who thoucrHfc differently. The word " Liberal " was a somewhat vague one. (Opposition laughter and cheers.) He did not know what it meant. He was a Radical, and he knew what a Radical was. Radicals, owing to their independence, differed upon small points, but they were entirely united in the opinion that all rieht to lerriflate should spring from the peoplo, and tbev were one and nil opposed to the idea of having any hereditary lajrislarors in this country. If any gentleman told him that he was a Radical and that ho took the op* posi** view, he could only say to that srentleman, and he said it with all respect, that he regarded him as a humbug. (Loud laughter.) If such an hon .'gentleman was under tho impression that he carried hia constituency with him in op. position to this motion, he would recommend him to consult his constituency (Hear, heir.) He thousrht there was no Radicil or Liberal meeting held during the late election at which, if this resolution had been brought forward, it would not have been carried almost unanimously. (Henr, hear ) Let any hon. member who doubted this call a meeting of his consti' tuent", and put the question to them. ONF. CHAMBER OR TWO. He himself was in favour of one Chnmber, but his motion did not go «o far as to rnise that point. He thouehfc that perhaps the Hou«e had not made up its mind whether there oucrht to be ono chamber or two. Lord B3a com field said that no one wanted a second chamber except a few disreputable individual* — that it was a valuable inst : tution for any individual who had neither distinction, character, nor talent. (Lauarhter, and a member of the Opposition : " When ?") Well, it was in one of Lord Beaconsfield'.i early works— (laufirhter)— but he had never clearly gathered that his lordship altfred his opinion. (Renewed laujrhter.) An hon. gentleman on this side (Captain Verney) hnd put on the rarer an amendment to this motion. He did not quite understand what it, rnevmt. bnt so far as he understood it, the hon. member considered that a spcond Chamber was in itself an evil, but a neoessiirvevil, and therefore they ought to be satisfied with the ill they had, because if they went farther they wonld fare worse. He (Mr L'lhoue.he're) did not think that a second Chamber was quite so innoouous as the hon. gentleman imagined. Tt w^spoiwrleuß for fjood, but powerful for evil. Popular government had advanced of late hy leaps and hounds, and a^rpsont them wafi a permnnent antagonist between the twoHonees. ("Hear, henr," and u No, no.") The two Houses represented two antagonistic, principles, which onuld no more unite than oil and water. Who was the first .peer, in ordinary na sea? He did not wish to mako personal remarks, but they knew that the nrstpeerwnsnboroushmouger, or a perwm who had done mmp serviop, or a Court favourite. He asked the other day what a certain service was, and the Secretary to the Treasury evaded the question, andl told him to go back to sixteen ' hundred and somethinsr, to find out' what it was. (Laughter). If the firet peer was a clever man, clever m»n did not always have clever sons. The Prime Minister onoe contested that proposition, and cited the case of tho two Yorkes, who wero Chancellors ; but tho ; riarht hon. gfiotloman forgot, to say_ that. I tho second Chancellor was so convinced that, he was not fit to fill the office that ho out his throat on the day of his appointment. (Lausrhtor.) Peers had mothers as well as fathers— they did not spring, like Minerva, from the brains of their fathers— (a lauurh) ; and ifc was well known that mothers had just as much to do with the intellectunl development of a son (laughter, and " More ") aa a father. They did not find doctors, painters, poits, and lawyers occupyinsr hereditary office.*. In France, lawyersfand judges wore onco hereditary, but ono of the first things tho Revolution did was to sroep away hereditary lawyers, as he would have that House sweep away hereditary peers. If they wished to have hereditary pears, they did not adopt the risrht plan. They ought to find the most intelligent persons in the country, take them when young (laughter), bring them np to be legislators, and, when they had reached the yoars of maturity, marry them to Girton girls— (law srhter)— and then, perhaps, they might get some sort of result. (L/md laughter.) But when the horeditary peers had condescended to be born, what was their training ? and what were their amusements? Were they such as were likely to make thorn efficient legislators? In the House, of Lords, there were 207 peers connected with the military and naval services. No doubt a military training was good for a soldier, but no one ever pretending that the training of a soldier was good for making a legislator. The peers lived in the conntry and were great thanes— bulls of Bishan, great men in a little locality. Then ther oarae up to London for the season. Did they then spond their time in reading books on legi«lation ? He hud never seen in what they did or said any sign that tbey were devoting themselves to education as legislators. One would snppose that they would go to the House of Lords in order to learn to legislate there. Was that the fact ? SITTING AND VOTINO LIKK SHEEP. Hon. gentlemen sometimes wont themselves to tho Houso of Lords to look on, and he thought that the best cum for those who admired tho Hou«e of Lords was to-f!<» and-lonk at it sitting. Oa great occasions the Lords flooked up from ■ •Til parts of tho country, and snt there likf *heep, and they voted like sheep. ( Laughter.) But on the ordinary oc-.i-Mon they would find ono peer msikimr i -peech to half-a-dozen other peers uutil it came near the dinner hour, when they vanished like chosts. (Laughter.) There were no doubt, some gentlemen amongst, the peers who devoted thomaelres to

politics. But what (lid they do? We were ho exceedingly grateful to them for doing it, that we at oiice gave them home office, and folt proud of their condescension in taking into their charge come portion of the affairs of this groat Empire. ("Oh.") Of couise thoro were exceptions ; there wore men like Lord Salisbury and Lord llosebery, who wero exceedingly ablo men; but theu there were albinoes in Africi. (Much laughter.) It did not follow, however, that the interior of Afrioa was inhabited by white men. Tlio fact was that their system was this. It was as if they took a lady's lap-dog and bred it up in u drawing-room, and then imagined he would turn out a trood i-heep dog. (Laughter.) Their whole system was bad. But they were told that the House of Lords did not con.-ist entirely of hereditary peers, and that it was recruited from the cream of the nation. (Hear, hew.) Wero they? Who were the gentlemen who were ordinal ily made new peers? Some of them were politiciaup, fcut they were gentlemen who had boen bores and nuisances iv the House of Commons — (laughter) — and who were kicked upstairs. (More laughter.) Thej were generally very rich men, who either inherited larjre estates, or who had made a considerable sum of money, and who had bought large estates. SIR 11. ALLSOrP. Take ono as an instance. He did not take it invidiously against him, because he believed he was a highly respectable gentleman. He alluded to Sir Henry Allsopp. Well, Sir H. Allsopp brewed beer. (Laughter.) By brewing beer ho acquired a fortune. He did not think that any gentlemen would say that Sir H. Allsopp in any sort of way distinguished himself politically. Ho had no doubt he did good service to his party, and fought several elections and very likely subscribed to the funds of the Carlton Club. But that was not acting as a prominent politioiao. He was made si baronet. He had not the slightest objection to Sir H. Allsopp or anybody elne being made a baronet. It seemed to him to be almost cruelty to animals tv refuse anybody a barouttoy who a-ked for it. (Loud lnujrhtcr.) He should as noon think of refusing a thistle to a hungry and needy donkey. (Renewed laughter.) But Sir H. Allsopp was not satisfied with a baronetcy, and he was considered worthy of the dignity of a peerage. Here he thought they had a right to complain, because that was not only a title, but it conveyed certain legislative rights both to him and his successors. (Hear, hear.) They were often told that the House of Lords in some special ways represented property and commerce. What was the first step of Sir H. Allsopp when made a peer ? He wrote to the Times to complain that he was called a brewer, and to assure the woild that he had ceased brewing. (Laughter.) Shortly afterwards he Hawaii account of a bucolic festival down in the country. *Tha tenants of Sir H. Alls-opp met and congratulated him upon bbing made ape % r, and at the -,ime time he saw a siig^u-cion that Sir H. Allwpp was descended from one of the Pl.intigenet kings (Laughter.) Sir H. Allsopp had a son who was a member of tlio the House of Common*. When that hou. goutleman went up to the other House in the course of nature, what would be hicourse ? Would he prove a u-eful member in the House and speak about commerce ? Would he till tide to the paternal butt? (Much laughtor ) They would have the descendant of the Plantagcnqt king*, and the respectable vendor of intoxicating liquors— (laughtor)— to whom he owed his title, -would bo entirely forgotten. lie did ask upon what principle in the world were they to as-ent to Sir H. Allsopp' son, grandson and great- crampon hereditarily ruling ovor them. (R-ulicil cheers.) THE LORDS DOOMED. Lord Saliibury, in a speech he made a shoit time ago, .said^ " In theso days any in-titution that is Sectional in its chai actor, and has not the interests of the whole community for its object, is necessarily doomed." (Hear, hear.) Try the Honso of Lords by that test, and h< really thought that Lord Salisbuiy woulil himself, if ho cons>iderjd tho matter and hajpened to have a teat in that Hou-e vote in favour of hU motion. There were 402 hereditary peers who sab in the House of Lords. These hereditary pcei> had fourteeu mtlliou acies mnong-t them and twelve millions in rent ; that was to say an average of 35,000 acres tn each peer, and an average income of £30,000. They had heard a groit deal about the L'ind League in Ireland ; but could anything imagine a more pernicious laud league than that which existed in thicouutry? (Parnellite cheers.) Of conr-e, being landlords*, they legislated for landlords, and tho consequence was that tlwhe landlords were tho disgrace aud the opprobrium of civilisation. (Cheers and " oh, oh. M ) They beat people off the land to jnake way for game ; there were vast tracks of land uncultivated. Even at do»th they shirked rhe death duties : the farmers had no fixture of tenure ; ano* the labourers were almost starving, and when' they camo forward and asked for n miserable three acres and cow " — — (laughter) — they were treated with contumely by these gentlemen. Whnt could be more absurd than to supp->-« that any single class, when they had tht power, would legislate for any class except themselves. They mi^ht hb well, in sn assembly of cats und mice, imagine the cats would legislate in the interests of the mice (laughter.). Theso hereditary peers being very rich men one had a right to expect that they wonld be personally independent. Was that the case ? Not in the least. A more self-seeking body of men did not exist in this country. (Oh, oh," and Parnellite cheers.) There were three orders of knighthood. There wa*no pretence of givinir these orders for merit. Thny were fdmply given to men in the Upper House in ordor|to keep them sweet, us they might call it, for the Government. (Laughter.) Almost onerwlf of the peer* were Privy Councillors. A KKJHT FOR SALARIES. When a Ministry was turned q,ut, gentlemen in the Upper House fought for places with a palary. They were ready to accept a place in the Government or at Court, and to perform duties which Gibbon said the noblest of Roman Emperors would not hare caused the meanest patrician to do for him. One gentleman got a sura of money for looking at the Queen's dogs; another for looking after the Queen's horses ; and another for looking after the Queen's footmen. (Laughter.) He had been counting up what they received from the State, and found "that they "received altogether £335,776 per annum from the public Treasury. They were told that the payment of members of the House of Commons would be degrading, and would destroy their independence. Yet a very small sum of division showed that these hereditary peers, notwithstanding their vast wealth, got an average of £700 per annum for their services. But they were \ not satisfied with that. They had relations who, according to the " Financial Reform Almanac"'— (oh, oh)— had, from 1800 up to the present date, received £120,000,000. Hon. members of the Op position appeared to object to the autho rity of this statement. Very likely it was inacurate, and thevofoie he M-ould take off twenty millions. But surely a hundred millions was a considerable b\un for4ooorooo families to l>a%e received from the Exchequer in 30 yearn (Cheers.) H,c was lorry that the C^ru^t Fractweb

Act of last year did not extend to the Upper House, forhcreditaiv pceis seemed to think themselves entitled to nuke the best market they could of their votes. Au ideal Second Cliauibei ought to hold an even btlancc between the p.utics mtho Housa of ComraniH, but there wa« no more purtis'iu assembly in 1 lie eouniiy than the House of Lords. The :nr wus far too foul and stignant for Radicals to livo thete — (laughter) — and <\cn Liberalism droopi din that pi ice. Whi n tlie Toric» wero in ollice the peers airrefd witTt everything, but when Libmls s'if, on the Treasury Bench their lordships wore a guarantee that they tin y wero rot in power. The Prune Minister had just been returned as the inun in whom the country had confidi ncn, but it was to be feared that ho would have to di%idc power with Lord Salisbury. (Chiersand eountor cheers.) The rejection of the important Compensation for L)i-iturbaiice Bill by Lords and their refusifl to pa-.s the Franthisu Bill until the Fiomier, who had the confidence of the country and tlie Commons had gone e.ipin hand to Lord Salisbury, and made terms with him, wore instances of tho way in which tho Upper Houto acted us a Toiy euacus. (Hear, hear). With regard to the spiiit which animated that iw-embly, Loid Hertford if.ive nn example the otlxr day when, alluding to the nppointment of the hon member for Birmingham (Mrßroadhurst) as Under Secretary for the Home Department, he supposed the country would next hoo Home noted burglar of tho Penec type created hend of the London police. That being the spirit of the Upper House, it was high time for Liberals to say that they would no louger be coerced aud bullied by it. (Cheers.) T'.IE COXTE.VT BKTWKEN THE HOUSED. What was the present position of affairs? The Finnc Minister was re« turned by large majorities in England, Wales, Scotland, and liclaud. He would probably bring forward bring forward a scheme for Home Rule, but Lord Salisbury said that the House of Lords would throw it out. (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) The noble Marquis claimed, in fact, to \eto any Act passed by the Commons, and to foice a dissolution when he liked. That would be an outrageous privilege for any ■ one to possess, and Lord Salisbury was the very man of all others who ought not to have it. He competed with the right hon. member for Midlothian for the Premiership at the geueral election, aud was beaten. For him then to say that he would present the Prime Minister from carrying out the policy which he deemed desirable was monstrous. (Cheers.) We could only hope tint by a laige sum of money we should be able to bribe the Peetfs into agreeing with us, for these gentlemen, while talking a deal about the iut^nty of the Empire, seemed to think that it mi<;ht very weli go bv the board if the Home Eule Bill contained clauses giving landlords moii» than they had a ri»ht 10. ('• Oh, oh," and cheeia). They ought not to maintain the existence of an hereditary House of Lonl3 who openly avowed that they were there in ouler to prevent the House of Commons doing what they uoiisideicd was for the good of tho country. (Hear, hear ) Kven in Liberal Cabinets the baneful influence of the House of Lords was felt. In the last Cabinet thete was not so many peers as usual, but almost ewiy member of the Cabinet was the u-lative of a peer. The only ones who were not were the light hon. gentleman the lit" J lonic Secretary (Sir K. Cioas) ird the light hon. gentleman the late Minister of War (Mr W. H. Smith). The other members of the Cabinet contemptuously admitted them and said, "Wo on«ht to let in Marshall and Suolgiove."' (L'i'ightcr.) The peers might be very excellent men, but being in the other Hou-o they night is well hvi' in the planet Sattitn. Lord Salisbury hid said th.it if we had not a House of Loids we ought to have triennial Pailiamt-nts. Ho (Mr Lahoucheic) wished we had tiiciuml Kuluments, Members of that House ought to go ir.ore often and consult the eleetois As to preventing precipitate legislation, the House of Lords lud.nevei done that since Fox-s Xi^t India Bill, and then, it should be renieinbeied, the House of 'Idiiiihoiw was not a teflcx of tho country. When a Bill was passed by the Commons it was perfectly ceitim to pas>s> the House of Lends, though there might be a dia.solution first. So far from being precipitate, he never knew so long-winded «n assembly as the House of Commons. The Lords innt'lnteJ and marred liilis, and when a Couseivative Government was in power they brought in Hills containing the very amendments Mut had been rejected, and claimed credit for passing them. All aristocracies legislated for themselves and their own "Aais. He did nob say they were worse than others. He believed the purest and best of men —he alluded to journaistd — (laughter) — would do the satne. It was said the House of Lords could not be got rid of without physical force. Could it not be constitutionally done? Of course it could. Nothing could be easier tbau to create three hundred peers, if necessary, to swamp them. (Laughter.) He really nelieved there was such patriotism on ches-o (the Liberal) bandies that he could tiud three hundred gentlemen on that side of the House who would ascend the iltar of their country and sacrifice themselves. (Laughter.) He was not asking the House to decide between the system of one Chamber airl another, but he wanted a reform, not in accordance with the principles recognised in the constitution of the House of Lords, but in accordnice with the principles recognised by every sane man out of that House. The fact was that the linen of demarcation between Liberals and Conservatives at the present moment were somewhat vagnc, and he believed the only men who really kuew their own minds in this House were the Radicals. Now that the Reform Acts were passed, the country would begin to be governed by the Democracy, and Democrats and Radicals were identical. Democrats regarded an hereditary Legislature as an inqult, an absurdity, and an abomination. The House of hereditary landlords, which claimed the right to overturn decisions arrived at by the representatires of the people was a baneful and pernicious institution. In the great tribunals of the country judgment had been given on this subject, and be called upon the House to give effect to that judgment. (Cheers.)

The Derrick and the Blizzard contest the newspaper field of Old City, Pa. The Derrick, in closing a notice of the death of Peter Giddere, lately, said : " Shortly before six o'clock a lady began reading tha Blizzard to him, and in less than two minutes he died." — Elmira Advertiser. Gexekal Grvxt's Nbmoiivs.— Mrs Grant, widow of the great American General, has abundantly reapod the fruit of her heroic husband's death-struggle to tea.ye her propided for by completing and preparing for publication the memoirs of his life. It will be remembered that General Grant, by sheer tenacity of purpose, held death at arm's length uutil he ii.id finished the work upon completion of which so much depended. Mrs Grant iue already received a large sum fiom the publishers (£-10,000, it is stated) as her share of the qrofits of the first volume, just published; and it is expected that rifLerthc publication of the secoud volume the protit accruing to her will be so great to teuvts her absolutely wealthy.