RAILWAY REFORM. Mr Vaile at Hamilton.

Waikato Times, Volume XXIV, Issue 2004, 12 May 1885, Page 2

RAILWAY REFORM. Mr Vaile at Hamilton.

runt ANT to an advertisement which up puap'd in tlio columns of tins l>ap<>i, a public meeting was held at the Public Hall, Hamilton, on Fuday night, foj the pursue of hearing Mr Vailo on tho subject of rail way refoiii), and affording an oppoituuity foi tlio fieo discussion of the subject. Additional interest waH lent to tho oceasmi» by tho fact Unit it was known that Mr Vithur Swnrbnck would attend and addross tlio mooting. At tlio hour named fm opening the proceedings them were ••iliour 120 persons in tho hall, and the chair \. is taken by his Worship tho Mayor (Mr W. A (Jr.iham). The Chairman opened tho meeting by loading this advertisement calling the Mim>. lie piocooded to say that on thin, his second \Mt to tho distuct, Mr Vaile would bo able to give them tho experiences of his tour i mind tho colony. Ho (the chairman) would nut t.ike up the tune of the mooting, as he undoi stood tlieie was likely to bo an interesting di-cus-«ion between Mr Vaile and Mr S\v irbnek. All h>j need say w.is th.it the subject of r.uhv.iy reform w.is one they were all deeply interested in, and tint they wero .igieed th.it some remedy for the piesont uns.itisf.ict"iy "tate of t hunts w.is wanted. Tho Mayor road a lottor from Mr S. T. Seddon, apologising for his unavoidable absence, and then introduced Mr Vailo to tho meeting. Mr Vailo, on coming forward, was gieeted with applause. He Mid he hardly knew what position ho occupied that night. Ho inclined to think that the meeting belonged to Mr Swarbnrk, and that ho (the speaker) stood on tho defen«i\ c. Ho had on a previous occasion stated what his syxtom w,^, and Mr Swarbrick having said it was untenable it was for Jiat gentleman to prove his case However, he was in the hands of the mooting, and wax prepared to go on if desiied Tho position wai this : His proposal had been before tho country mnco Jamury, 1883 ; from that time up to tho present the quention had been continuously agitated : he had in his possession no fewer than forty-thtoe lcadeis and subheaders which had appeared in the vauous papers of the colony ; he had addressed seventeen public meetings— all free and not composed of tho ordinary crowd, but of theiuoHt intelligent, thinking men of the vaiious centres of population— ho had held conferences with five, chambers of wiameiee, with some of them imne than i once ; and thionirhout tho whole of that time nobody had bvjen found to dispute his position. Mr Sw.irbuck hid told them that ho was piepared to assail it. It therofoic became him to ait down and lot Mr Swnilnick ha\e his way. Of coune he was ! in the hands of the tneetiup. Mr Swarbrick said he could only repeat \vh it Mr Vaile had said; ho too was in the hand-, of tho meeting. For him-elf he wo\ild like to hoai Mr Vaile's account of his southern tup. (Heir lie.v.) Mr \ aile «,ud as it was tlie wish of the meeting that ho should toll them about hi* Southern trip he would do so. He then gave an outline of his trip, remarking that he whh uniformly successful, not only at his public meeting*, which woie in all cases presided over by tho mayor of the town, but also in his interviews with the chainbors of connneree. Tho chamber at InvorcirgiU in paiticuhu was favourable to the scheme, and an attempt was being made by that body to induce tho Government to givo it n trial on the Bluff linn. While on his way South ho wrote a letter t» the Wellington Times to the effect that he had como tlieieon a mission to ventilate the subject of railway management. In it he declared that were the passenger fanw reduced to one-fifth of the present rate, the result would be an incroaso m the revenue of £200,000, and that tln» sum would enable the (Jovcrnment to rcduco tho charge-- on the. transit of goods one third without imposing any flesh burdons of taxation. It fuithcr stated that on hw return from the South Island, ho would be prepaied to defend his position agiiint anybody. He issued this challenge m Wellington because tho depmtment wan centred in that city, and there was every facility placed within the reach of any who wished to disprovo his contention*. He knew of course that tho officers of tho department themselves were not in .i position to meet him, but nothing wan easier than for them to nut up Homebody to do bo. But they did not. (Hear). He had been examined by the different chambers of commerce, and hi* scheme had been examined by a thoroughly impaitial bciutiny, the lesult bt ing a Lenornl approval of its feutuio. He. had been requested to commit Ins lectuios to pai>er, and tho chainbors would bear tb« expense of printing them. Nothing could be more kindly, or cordial than the tieatmont which had been accotded him on Ins trip. He had visited Invcro.irgill, Dunedin, Christchttrch, Wellington, Napier, Wanganui, and New Plymouth. It was not to be expected that the people of those places should commit themselves at ouco to a decided opiniou concerning the merits or demonts of the scheme, but it was pleasing to reflect that the loading men of oach of thono communitieß were the first to welcome him. (Hear, hear.) In addressing tho prcsont meeting ho would adopt tho course pin sued with the chambers. He pointed out to them, that whether the scheme would provo a financial success or no, the question to be considered was, Would it induce throe to tra\el for i>nu that travels now, and, if so, would the cost of working bo materially increased ? If it wore conceded that the number of pasaongerH would be trebled, and that the faro would not sink below ono shilling, (the present average being Is it^d), it was clear that the gain to the revenue would amount to £200.000. This would be achieved simply by the manipulation of the passenger traffic, and tho amount stated would be applied to the reduction of the charges on goods. He had purpose)}' avoided dealing with tho goods question, for the reason that the (Jovernment published no rclublo data upon which to proceed, and had ho attempted to proceed without such information, he would probably have been caught tripping. It was difficult also, to speculate upon any probable increase in the goods traffic, for tho reason that goods as a rule were only carried once over the lino. In order therefore to increase the goods traffic it was necessary first to increase tho population, aud to do this better facilities must bo otTorod than those which tho country enjoyed at present. It was necexs.uy theiofoie that they should start on the passengoi taijtf. Give a man inducements and he will inovo about, but no inducement in tho shape of cheap freight would inako him to send his good* up and down the lines. Mr Vaile then explained tho method of cheap faies, ticket stations, ke, tlio details of which aio already known to our readers. Ho wan assisted by two largo nnd elaborately got ui> diagrams, showing tho Auckland and Hiirunui Bluff sections, respectively. Ho pointed out the effect the adoption of this system would have upon the Waikato, in tho laigely increased nuinl>er of vibitors who would come to the district. For ono that now came there would bo at least ten. None but wealthy people could afford to make uho of tho railway at the present rato of passenger fares. Tlion there was another class of pooplo who nt present confined their attention to the largo towns nimply becauHo of the prohibitory charges on the railway. Ho alluded to tho purveyors of public amusement and instruction. Tho better clasc of these soldom visited the country districts. Lot them also take tlio case of families. Ho had never thought of In inging any of his family with him to the Waikato, but wore roasnn.il>lo fares imposed, he and others would undoubtedly bring tho mombeis of their family into the country. How many of those present wont to Auckland ? Then, again, there was tho labour question. A system of cheat) fares would facilitate tho trunfmonco of labour fiom ono district to another an tho demand arose, and many lo>ncs at harvest, &c, arising from tho want of adonuato labour would bo avoided Ho would like to know whether anybody m mooting was prepared to dispute his contention that his scheme would result in tiebhng tho number of passengeis? (Ap plause. ) Mi Kw.irbrick sftid he had hoped that at that mooting the question of railway reform would bo discussed upon a broader basis. But Mr Vaile scorned determined to make it the subject of a personal conflict. It was necessary that this question should be dealt with on a broad platform. Mr Vailo'tf scheme only dealt with ono very small portion of railway reform. He (Mr Hwarbrick) wished to look at tho subject in its broadest light. If any one looked forward ho could not fail to be struck with the aspect of afF*irn. Ho would have to confess that either they must commence to build on a new basis or be content to recede farther and fuithcr fiom a condition of prosperity. In the past they had been relying upon capital; in the future they must look for rovenue. Would anybody deny that the monoy hitheito spont m tho district was derived

fioin ttio prosecution of public woik* <>r the pockets of capitalists '! But t)ii-* woiilfl soon cease. Theie were few public woiksand little more capital. How hurl tnonoy been made in tho pant? Tho fii-st man bought land for a few .shillings and hold it for a pound or two — Hint was hi* profit ; tho second man sold it foi a still highei price, and that w.ih his profit ; <md so on. In tho past money had been nude on tho land : they had now to faco tho problem of how to make money out of tho land. He onitum ally heard it said that bette,! times w-eie coming, butho could tell them that if tuoy weic to havo bettor times they must make thorn themselves. (Applause.) Tho r.ul vayH and everything oNe imwt bo put upon a more satisfactory footing. Now, there weio too kind* of railway, tho prnnto i.nl way and the stato railway. In Holland, the old i«iihva>H wrre pi 1 vain and the new state linos ; in Belgium .ill tho rulwavs belonged to the state ; in Fi.inco the (Jovernment was acquiring all tho linen ; the case of (Jtu-inany wan similar to that of Holl.md, though tho stato was buying up all the linos. In England, as they all know, tho railways wore owned privately. It w,»r never supposed at the outset th.it the railways would pl.iy such an important pait in the commercial .ilfan ■< of tho country as they now did. It was found th.it them was a constant friction between the railway companies and the community at large, and tho consequence of this was the passing of vaiious .»cts of Parliament to regulate tho system. There was growing up in England a conviction that tho railway* must bo stite property m oidfi that they Hhould bo made subservient to the interests of the country. In New Zealand they had a state railway, but the HyHtem contained a combination of the diM.ulvanUge* of both state and puvato railways. ItH operations were directed by political influence. This had a most detrimental effect. For instance, if tho people called out for a roduction, the Minister thiew the concession to them as a sop for their votes. They placed tho railways in the hands of I officials who had to niako tho largest possiblo profit, or in other words give as little as possible imd charge as much as possible ; wherca^ their instructions Hhould be to look mainly to tho opening up and devnlopinent of tho count! y. Pho train service and geneial facilities were altogether behind those of other countries, whereas the charges wciefrom 20 to 200 percent, higher. Those matters might seem small in detail, but by their constant action they exorcised a l unions effect both on agneultmo and trade generally. Of comse, they must not f incut that the i. til ways had steep gradients, sharp cuivon, and light construction, so that they never can gi\o the econoniony or convenience of more expensive roads. But still a gmat deal could be done by a morn libei.il policy. They re?uiied a thoiongh and radical lefoim. Jut to secure that reform they must work on a bioad unassailable platform. They iiuiMt not tic themselves t<i details or to any m.in'H scheme. In thu he vvassoiry to appeal to oppose Mr Vaile, because ho felt thoy owed him their host thanks foi tho vvny bo had kept the subject bofoie the public. But he w.ih com inced that if they tied themselves to Mr Vailo's scheme, thoy would get no reform at all. Of coin mo this scheme was populai in Hamilton, because it promisul them everything, but other places would never agree to it, and thoir opponents would havo no difficulty in showing its unfairness. It was impossible for anyone to "devise a t-chciiiß of lailway management " who had not had the neeot--saiy training and expoiience. He denied that Mr Vaile had had any training to fit him tin the work. Mr Vaile had said that all this was merely "board-room" work, but lie did not appear to know whnt boardroom work was. Thoro wero many men who were placed on tho directorates of railway companies simply on account of thoir wealth and position, but tho real work was done by th<wu duectorti who had dovoted then liven to tho study of the subject m all its manifold bearing*. As showing tho danger of con. nutting themselves to any scheme ho would now examine that of Mr Vailo. He maintained that it would not realise what it promised, and that it was in itnelf unfair nud impracticable. [Mr Swarbrick then read extracts from papers published by Mr Vailo explaining his scheme.] Ho would not give them any opinion of hi« own, or rely in any way on liim expeiionce oh » practical railway traffic manager, but, speaking simply us a Waikato farmer, argue the case, and leave them to form their own opinion, Mr Vaile estimated that under his system there would bo at least tiiroo tunes tho present passenger traffic. It was of com .so impossible to disprove this except by actual experiment, but it was most improbublotli.it tho increase would bo so great, for tho following reasons;— (l) Tho comparison with Kngbsh tiaffic wan altogether fallacious ; there tho dense population, habits, and necessities of tho people pro diiced an altogether diffcient state of affairs to what existed heie. (2) Tho ieduction in fares was not so important as at first sight appeared. If a man took a journey he had to considct hi> time and hotel bill as well as the railway faro. Thus the cost of a tup to Auckland, Ist class, was now: Fare, £1 Ion ; tinio, £3; oxpensos, £2: total, £<5 lTw; an against £5 Tw under Mr Vaile'n scheme, ft comparatively small reduction. (3) The i eductions affect chiefly the long journey pnssengets, who wero insigiiilicant in number. Tho great bulk of thu passengers, who wore round about the big towns, got comparatively little, and in some casOH no reduction. As a matter of fact, holders of froo pasioß were found to travel very little more than thohO who had to pay the present faie. (I) With legard tothoprofessional certificate on which Mr Vailo ho much relied, he (tho speaket) mentioned that it had no reul value, as theso gentlemen could not know the traffic of % single station. As to goods traffic, it wan propoised to i educe tho rates on an average by about two-thirds, and these were to produco tho same receipts as at present. <)i, in other words, Mr Vailo relied on a tluocfold increase of goods traffic. "VVas it possible to believe that any alteration in lailway charges would at onco increase tho piodiictinn of grain mid consumption of manufacture* threefold 1 But even if tho gross receipts remained undiininished, there must bu an enormous incroaso in tho expenses. It was impossible to carry threo times the quantity of passengers, cattle, and goods with.. out a (treat many more trains and goodfunen. Thin increased expenditure would require now taxes to moot it. Mr Vailo had mado a i«>int of tho circumstance that the trains ran for a great portion of tho distance empty, ignoring tho fact that a managor had to provide for tho maximum amount of traffic 1 hough the carriages might be almost empty at different stages of the journoy, if they were to count all tho passengers taken up and sot down at different stations they would find that tho number carried oxceedod tho capacity of the train. If a man wont to a ti.un it would not do to nay, " It is full ; you aro above the average." On tho other hand, tho system was in itself unjust and impracticable. (1) A resident eight miles fiom town would pay twice as much us his neighbour seven iniloi distant, and tho same as another man 14 miles. (2) In the country a man would bo convoyed 50 miles for 4d, which was actually less than the nett cost of carrying him. Mi Vailo said that tho " average" would bo right, which merely moans making ono man pay too much in order that another may pay too littlo. (3) Again, somo people would have to pay twice tho fares of these, simply because there was a " ticket station ' men. For instance, a man ut Hamilton East would pay Is if he went five miles towards Auckland or Ohaupo, or 9d for 10 mile* towards Cambridge, ; but A mail at Hamilton Junction could go DO miles any way foi (>il. (J) A ln.in in Auckland would have to pay 2s to go 30 miles, but a man at Fukokohe could go 50 milcH for (id. (S) exactly the mime, thing would happen in respect of goods and cattlo. For instance, a ton of general merchandise from Auckland would cost, for 7 miles, 2s (id ; 8 miles, r>-:;r >-: ; a truck of cattlo, Hamilton East to I'ukete, 7 miles, 8s : or, Hamilton Junction to l'ukekohe, .">i miles, -Is ; a truck of grain, Pukokohn to Auckland, 30 miles, His; or, I'ukokoho to Hamilton, fii miles, 4s. These instances could bo multiplied eudlusHly. In fact, thin was tho veiy essenco of tho system. Remove. these anomalies and the scheme would cti»se to exist. Such a state of things would never be toleratod for a day. Mr Vailo's Hoheme was in fact "differential rating" in its worst form. Ho himself said, " Differential rating monns charging different prices for convoying the name class of nrtfclo on different portions of tho lincx," and in his scheme ho proposes to charge ono man 16s xnA Another man 4s for convoying tho same goods tho samo nuinbor of miles. And Mr Vaile said tho "differential rating systom " is " ono vast system of legalised fraud and robbery." Mr Vftllo, iifter rcmaikinp that Mr Swarbrick had occupied a Lugo proportion of tho timo of the meeting in tho discussion of matter thoy wore all agiced upon, namely, that tho railway nmnngoment «'»« ns b»d M

it could be, said ho would reply to the last contention of that gentleman Hot. Mr Swarbrick hiid stated that undei the proponed system, tho town ni.ui would have to pay for tho coiintiy man. Now as the present average fiiro w.is only Is O^'d, it was clear that the town man paid for the country tnnn at tho pie^-ent time. Mr Kwurbnck recommended thn importation of a railway man from Kngland, but this was piecisely what thoy did not want. They hud had enough of railway men, and lie would liko to see them turned out. Mr ttwarbitck had niado a gieat point concerning tho fares charged between Pukokuhe and Hamilton. Now his object in making this ono stage waH to induce the settlement of tho up country districts. That wan what they all wanted. He proposed to carry goods and parcels on the s yntem of stages also, Helicvmg it to be a (vise )>olicy to help the country Kottlei. It was not the Ut rough faro that paid, as Mr Swarbrick ought to know. Lot thoin take tho cano of tho 'buses in London. From Harrow road to tho Bank thn fare for the whole or u part of the way was 2d, but if the 'bu«es had to carry nono but through passenger* the business would bo a failure. He relied on the road sido traffic to bring tip the average. He had trade provision to meet tho case of people living on ono sido of a ticket station desiring to go to tho next ono on the other side. He contended that he had not based his fcliomo on tho Knglish system. When he spoke about shifting th • population ho meant that, taking into account the increased paying powei of tho people of this colony, if the population of England was shifted nineteen times, that of New Zealand ought to bo moved twentyfour times to bo on equal terms. Mr V.ulr then .said he, had not time to ieplv to all that Mr Swarbrick had naid, but invited questions. Mr Swarbrick anked Mr Vaile how he justified the proposal to charge lbs lier ton for freight between Auckland and Puke kohe (30 mile 1 .), and only 4s per ton between Fukekoho and Hamilton (.*>o miles) ? Mr Vaile said his idoj, was to place the settler* in Muttered country districtH on a more erpi.il footing with those living near Aucklaud, whose facilities for gaining a livelihood were ho much greater th.vi those enjoyed by people at a distance from a large city. Tho provision, ho had often explained, was only teiupoiary. As tho country towns mci eased in Bi?e and population addition il ticket stations would be elected. Kefeimig to tho probable mciease m tho fr.iHic, Mi Vaile pointed to the ("jse of the Auckland tramways, which now carrier] tne times as in'iny people .is the "bu>es, while the trade of the Intter had not fallen off. Only two miles of tho lino had been opened, mid the nuinbor cariied pei week amounted to 15,000. He w r as ceitain that p.i«->engei * could bo carried on the railway at the pi ices he had named. The horn was potting late but if tho meeting wixhed he would stay over the next night and go further into the subject. The meeting signified by applause its acceptance of Mr Vaile's offer. Cupt. Stoele proposed a \ote of thanks to Sir Vaile. Mr Swarbiiek had not treated him vet V generously. Mi »S\yat brick h lid they ought to import some big bugs fiotu Kngl.md, but if thoy could tint manage tlieii tin pot little railways without importing men fiom Kngland, hea\en help them. What they wanted wis common hcnso businoKtf men to manage their line-i with a view to the general advancement of the country. There wan no use in opening npthc"King Country" unless thoy got Homo better system of j.iilway managemont than they now had. Mr lViinroxo seconded the motion, which was put and cariied. Tho Mayor announced that tho meeting would stand adjourned until tho next evening at tho Mime hour.