TUESDAY'S SITTING. [UNITED PRESS ASSOCIATION.] Wellington, Wednesday. The House met at 2.30 p.m.

Waikato Times, Volume XV, Issue 1243, 17 June 1880, Page 2

TUESDAY'S SITTING. [UNITED PRESS ASSOCIATION.] Wellington, Wednesday. The House met at 2.30 p.m.

SALE OF NATIVE LANDS. Mr. Bryce, is moving the second reading of the Native Land Bales Bill, said the law at present waß not in a satisfactorycondition. The object of the Bill was to simplify these laws. Each of the eight Bills brought in, embodying the Native policy, deals with different branches of the subject Hitherto their course on this subject had not been a satisfactory i one. They had all along gone .on the assumption that their policy with respect to Native lands must be based on the Treaty of "Waitangi. From the time of that treaty until now it had been deemed that the fee simple remained in the Crown until 1855. There was no regular ! miichiueiy provided to asoertain the ! natuie of the Bill. In 1844, some pre.shdie was brought to bear upon the then Governor. He issued a proclamation, enabling private parties to deal with these lands. A few months afterwards he issued a second proclamation, reducing the payment from ten shillings per acre to one penny. For the issue of a Crown grant the pre-emptive rights was restored by Sir George Grey, the succeeding Governor. That right was maintained till the year 1855, and he believed they would agree with him in saying that it was a very great pity that that right was not maintained after that date. The right of private persons to purchase these lands was recognised. The next change was in the year 1871, when the Public Works policy was inaugurated. At that time and subsequently as much as threequaiters of a million sterling was appropriated for the purchasa of a landed estate in the North Island. Then commenced a system which had done more than anything to demoralise the Natives. He meant the purchase of Native lands by agents. These agents scattered money amongst them like dust, induced them to take ruin, and lesorteil to almost every species of demoralisation. They had not succeeded in getting the desired reward. One reason was that the Government agents did not regard themselves purely as Government agents. They purchased land not only for Government but also for themselves and their friends. The result was that the Government got the bad land, and these parties anil their friends the good land. They, as the Government, had not got their reward, as the evil sources resorted to ought to have led them to expect. In 1876, a Bill was introduced by the then Government which deserved more credit than it got, but it was too complicated. It was introduced, but withdrawn in 1877, another Bill was brought by the same Government. It went in the direction of the free- trade principles, and, although an improvement upon its predecessor in machinery, it, too, had to be withdrawnIt "was withdrawn as an amendment, which was accepted by the Government. It was known as the Native Lands Court Bill. It served one useful purpose : it indicated the direction in which the countiy wished legislation in native laud. It indicated that the House did not wish free trade in native land. Then Major Atkinson went out and the Grey Government came in. One of the objects was that it should reform this very practice, and he had no hesitation in saying that in that respect the Grey Government was an utter failure. It uever attempted to deal with the matter until a few days before it "went out of office. Ho despaired almost of making the Hous>e understand the terrible iniquities perpetuated in native land purchases. He v ould give them a few examples of the iniquitous transactions. The advance system had b^en tlie great feature in these transactions, and the particular mode of making these advances was something atrocious — he meant the system of granting orders on storekeepers. In Tauranga alone £11,000 had passed through one Government agent's hands in the space of 18 months. The process of granting these orders was for the amount to be left blank in the vouchers. The agent was supplied with funds by an imprest, and when he was called upon to account for the sums by the auditor, he filled these vouchers up to suit the occasion. A transaction took place some months ago, which induced him to send up and cxami'ie matters, and the result was .ionic thin^ extraordinary. The auditor reported th it he found that moneys charged had nover been paid, and Lli.it had it been pai-1. The grossest irregularities had taken place in connection with these payments. Two items wore specificd — one for £30 the other for -Cl-K), as much as £77 of the Litter being for spirits and beer consumed at a tmiffi over the land agent's brother, the late Jndire Young". Again, it was stated that negotiations with Natives were conducted with the utmost irregularity. He had already said that they had been guilty of iniquities, but had received no equivalent for their trouble. When they came to settle the negotiations connected with these vouchers on which advances were made, they would most undoubtedly be repudiated, and the Government .stands to lose a large sum of money. Ag-.iin, this fimd had never been closely scrutinised, and was mo^t grossly abused. If a Mauri wanted an order to pay his expenses, or to get rum, it was charged to this fund. The rule Avas that any doubtful payment was charged for food. Especially he Avould now refer to the "West Coast. He did not think that the system of land vouchers obtained there, but all other objectionable features of the system were observed. The agents there would agree on a price for the land he had never seen, and which no white man could tell them about. They had purcba&ed land, the surveyors now reported too broken and worthless. The agents had to rely upon the 'statement as to the area. In one case the estimated area was 60,000 acres and when it came to be surveyed it was found to contain not more than 7000 acres. The result of this was that it was found that the money advanced was far more than the total value of the land. This was in and about Wangauui. Further up the coast a gentleman, who had been treating with the Government got £1000 for his alleged interest on a block. The gentleman was then appointed a Land Purchase Agent at £400 a year to complete the purchase of that very block, which had not been done yet. More than that, this gentleman was a storekeeper, and advances made to the Maoris were paid through him, buggy harness and other articles purchased from his store having been supplied in lieu on the land. The payment of compensation on confiscated land was next referred to. The payments to the chiefs were made secretly, and they were ordered to sign fictitious names to hide the nature of the transaction. A sum of £1000, expenses of the great Maori meeting at Waitara, was provided for in a most extraordinary way. The native agent at Waimate got the amount by imprest, and to satisfy the auditors and Government, three Maoris, who did not possess an inch of land in the place, to sign receipts for the money. What he would contend for was, that the whole system was demoralising, and that if they would not reach the expected benefits from their efforts they must do away with the old system. No system L could possibly be de.

vised that could work worse than the present system. The pre-emptive right system was in his opinion the best device that could be resorted to. but it would be impossible how to carry that out. Free trade in native lands was equally untenable. What then remained for them to adqgt? He believed the- only valid system was that contained in the Bill, the second reading of which he now proposed. The great object should be to settle these lands, and he contended that the Bill before the House was a step in that direction. It was, he thought, the best law that could be desired under the circumstances. It was true that the Maoris miprht not be disposed to place their lands in the hands of the "Was'e Lands Board. To make it popular with the Maoris it was proposed to enable the Government to make reasonable advances upon the land. As regards the Maoris themselves, it would eventually be a very great relief to them. It would save them from the perpetual annoyances of those persons who are always after them for their lands. He detailed the features of the Bill, and concluded by moving the second reading. Major Te Whero moved the adjournment of the debate. Captain H&nlin, in seconding the motion for adjournment, said that they heard something from the mover which they would very much like to inquire into. Then, again, they wanted to have other measures, to see the effect upon the whole question of Native policy. He hoped the Government would not object to the motion. Mr Macandrew supported the motion for adjournment. The motion was one which required calm consideration. Mr Gisborne said the Native Minister had quoted from documents not before the House, and that itself was reason for asking the adjournment. Mr Lundon also spoke in favour of the adjournment. Sir George Grey said that the speech had been chiefly an attack upon other persons, and it was only fair that the late Native Minister should be present before the debate was gone on with The motion for the adjournment was then put and carried. The debate was adjourned till Friday.

NATIVE RESERVES. The Native Reserves Bill w t as withdrawn.