General Assembly.

Waikato Times, Volume XIII, Issue 1162, 6 December 1879, Page 2

General Assembly.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wjbdkjesday. v The House met at' 2.30. QUESTIONS. THE ABOHA LAND CLAIM. Mr Shrimski asked a question m connection with a paragraph which appeared m the evening paper to the effect- that a block of land m Auckland thrown out for sale had been claimed at the last moment by Mr Thomas Russell. Mr Rolleston replied that he knew nothing whatever about the matter. FUBTHEB BILLS. HELP TD AUCKLAND BBPUSEB. The adjourned debate on the question that the douse to-morrow resolve itself into a committee of the whole 'to consider a respectful address to be presented to his .Excellency the Governor, praying that he will cause the sum of £200,000 to be placed upon the Estimates as a grant to provide the district of Auckland for the formation of roads and bridges, then took place. On being put, the motion was lost on the voices. ADDBBSS TO THB GOVEBNOE. I /otion was made to the effect that the House go into committee of the whole to consider of addresses to be presented to his Excellency the Governor, praying that he will cause the sum of £500,000 to be placed upon the Estimates as a grant for the provincial district of Otago, for roads and bridges. ] Mr Holleston advised that the motion be withdrawn. The motion was put, and lost on the voices. CONSTITUTION 'AMENDMENT. Sir George Gcey moved the second reading of the New Zealand Constitution Act Amendment Bill. The bill consisted of six clauses, and after stating the abuses which the colony was subjected to, at the hands of the Government and its friends, by the acquisition of large estates m Canterbury and elswhere, he (Sir George) went on to say, that its objects j were to remedy these evils, and to prevent I their recu rence. He felt that, m this House, there was no fair representation I of tbe people, and it pained him to think that the Government had done its best to burk his eE.deavo.ur to carry a measure, having a fairer and better basis of representation. He invited the House to join with him m insisting that the bill before the House be carried into law this session. Mr Hall regretted that the motion had not been made m a spirit worthy of the mover, the House, and the occasion. I hey had simply a repetition of those well-known tirades aorainst everyone "who happened to be m opposition to himself. He had deplored the inequalities of representation m New Zealand. The fact was, if one man was more responsible than another for that state of things it was him (Sir George Grey). Had he" stood aside when his Government was defeated last session, a measure for readjustment would have been sure to pass, and m the readjustment a dissolution and re-electien would of necessity have taken place. He (Sir George), however, preferred his chance of remaining m office to that of the opportunity for removing the inequalities he now professed to deplore. He claimed for his Government the cred't of having rescued the colony from the gravest possible financial embarrasment — embarrasments created by the late Government, and that was far more important work than was the absence of that which Sir George Grey so loudly professed to deplore. The present was the most inopportune period of the session to grapple with the measure now put forward. He concluded by moving that tbe bill he read a seoond time that day six months. Messrs Shrimski, Speight, Turnbull, and George spoke m favour of the bill. Mr Sheehan said nothing could be more distinct than the promise made that the Readjustment BUI would be brought down. He knew that it would not. Then again, House wished a distinct resolution that it was to be brought forward, yet, after two months' delay, they were now told these proraiaes^and resolutions were to be disregarded. If the Government was honest m its other measures, and desired to see these honestly carried out, they were bound to bring :n a measure of this k'nd. This ought not to be made a party question. They were simply asked to go back to the old constitution. Although they were all anxious to get away, he felt sure no one would i grudge a few days to get measures of this kind passed, and if th-j Government would be honest m connection with its professions, and take the leade m a matter like this, he was sure that the fact would be shown. He would vote for the second reading.

Mr Macandrew scouted the idea that for the sake of shearing a few hundred sheep, or reaping a few tons of grain, they should hurry away, and leave a measure like this — a measure to which they were all committed. It would not delay the House more than a week, and he for one was prepared to devote that time to a matter of so great importance. Major Atkinson said the bill before the House did not aim at redistribution. It simply provided for the election of a com-

mon commissioner to divide the colony into electoral districts bassed on the j, principle of population. If necessary, all j, that could be done without the expense - and waste of time involved m this nieasure. Its effect would not bo to advance redis- r tribution of seats. The Government was £ as anxious as they could possibly be to 5: get a redistribution bill passed, but had j not the time. No one wanted another 8 general election between this and next j May, when the ' House is to be again j called together, and a bill of this kind j would,, under ordinary circumstances, take „ a month or six weeks to pass ; no one would sit that time, so that it was absurd ( to bring it down at this state of session, j No government would allow a matter of , this importance to be taken out of its ( hands. Mr Hislop supported the bill. . \ Mr Gisborne thought that if the Goa j vernment had not had time to bring m o , readjustment bill, they ought at least te , have made provision for increasing the . representation m districts at present \ notoriously under represented. [ [ Mr Pyke supported the princip 1 © laid ( down m the bill, although he admitted it was too late m tne session to expect that ' . it would pass this session. Under these circumstances he would move, " That the '. debate be adjourhed.'Y The motion was ruled out of o^der, m respect that Mr Pyke had spoken to the original motion. Mr Murray moved the adjournment. Captain Colbeck seconded. Mr Hall speaking to the motion for adjournment, said no member of the tJouse was more anxious to Bee a redistribution than he was, bat it would be quite impossible to pass such a measure this session. Next session a carefully-con-sidered measure on the subject would be brought down. Sir George Grey said that having received a promise of a redistribution, he was led to keep quiet on the subject, and it was not until he found that he was being deceived that he brought down this meaaure. TTe did not believe m the promise that the matter would be provided for next session. The question ought to have been fairly met, ' and not bur-ed by a motion for adjournment. The country should know how the vote went m this matter, The Premier was solemnly pledged to get the bill passed, and he was bound by that pledge. . It was his firm conviction that he would never pass such a measure, and never intended doing so. The Premier had got up that night m his place m the House and stated abcolu<e untruths. Mr Ball called upon this statement "untruths" to be withdrawn 'Sir George Grey said that he did not use the word m the sense of a wilfnl untruth. After a deal of discussion on the point, the debate proceeded. Sir George Grey went on to say that they had been absolutely deluded. There * was still plenty of time to pass the bLU. If the promise of the Premier about bringing down this bill were not carried out. he would sill do his best to prevent further supplies being granted, and lie hoped the members would stand by him ' m that determination. The House divided on the motion for adjournment. Ayes, 43 ;' noes, 29. Ayes: Adams, * tkinson, Bain, Ueetham, Bowen, Bryce, Colbeck, Dick, Fulton, Gibbs, Hall, Hirst, Hurst, Hursthouse, Kelly, Kenny, Levin, Masters,, McCaughan, McLean, Moorhouse, Murray (teller), i Oliver, .Ormond, Pitt, Pyko (teller), i Richardson, Uichmond, Rolleston, Russell, i Saunders, Seymour, Shanks, Shepherd. ; Stevens, Studholme, Sutton, Swanson, . Turnbull, Wakefield, Whitaker, Wood, • Wright. i Noes : Andrews, Ballance, Barron, Brown, DeLautour, Fisher (J. 8.), Fisher l ( JT.) , George, Gisborne, Grey, Hutchison, Ireland, Lundon, Macandrew, Moss, > Montgomery, Reeves, Reid, Sheehan, Shrimski, Speight, Stewart, Te Wheoro, Tainui, Tawhai, Tole, Turnbull, and I Wallis. t After a good deal of discussion on this L point, the debate proceeded. 5 • Sir George Grey went on to say that they had been absolutely deluded. s Mr George moved, as a further amend--3 ment, " That the debate be adjourned till : 3 p;in. on Wednesday." 3 Mr Saunders said he approved of the t "Hill, but felt it was too late m the sesssion 3 !■) be dealt with at all conclusively. It ha d i been shown that the redistribution would i affect Canterbury principally. In that j case the Government had nothing to fear, as the new election would be likely to . strengthen their ranks, i The debate was continued until the' 3 House was counted out. ' Thursday. I PROPERTY TiVX. 3 Major Atkinson moved the second reading ot* the Property- Assessment Bill. He s said he had already shown that new taxa- -) tion to a considerable extent was necessary.. They h»& already gone as far as . they could m the way of indirect taxation i and direct tax ifcion was now tendered i necessary. A difference o± opinion exs isted as to the propriety of taxing incomes 1 or capital. The ijloverciment had come to 1 the conclusion it would be better to tax t property than income arising from pros perty. m income tax was a property x tax, and something move. It taxed a 3 man's energies and ability, and, on that s aciount, it was objectionable. An income f tax was a greai deal more inquisitorial . than a property tax. In a colony like 3 this the majority of settlers had no fixed f incomes, but there was no difficulty m 3 rendering an accouut of what he possessd. _ In America the farmer had to give a re- . turn, not only of his crops, but likewise . of any veal and mutton sold during the fc year. 'I hen, again, he was not allowed I to deduct anything for the labour eint ployed m improving his property. To do , so it would be seen that a great deal of „ trouble arises. If he did not please the 3 assessor, then he had to exhibit all his _ books, and disclose all his transactions to prove his income was what he returned'it to be. Under the tax, as they proposed it, no such inquisitorial proceedings were i required. All he required to do was to fc give an account of his visible property, t Jt lay with him, as far as he might deem L advisable, to show any transactions which b did not appear on the face of bis posb sesions. The objection that by taxing property, and not incomes, a certain class I escape. To some extent that was true, 5 A property tax was levied for the purpose : of adjusting the taxation. An indirect j tax bears on all classes of the community, L and they could not possibly tell upon b whom it might fall. A property tax, 3 with certain exemptions, was made to . equalise the taxation of the colony. The 3 person with an irj-come, and who spends \ it all, ooi»tribute largely to the indireot 3 taxation, whereas the person who only I spends £400 to £500 escapes much more . lightly. As regards the property they 3 propose to tax under these proposals, it 3 will fall equally on whatever kind of I property the man may choose to invest m, The advantages of it were, that it left t a man absolutely free to invest m what--1 ever class of property he pleases. The r statement that this bill would not tax the j unearned increment was a fallacy, If 3 speculation m land was going an to the 3 detrimnent of settlement, then by all 3 means let them resort to special legislai tion, but it was wrong to impose a land tax simply to get hold of the larger class , of landowners. They oould not deter Ij speculators by that tax, and on the other . haud, it was an injustice to tax a par-.

iicluar class of the community. The bill before the House waa prepared rather hastily, so that while the bill contains the principle of taxation proposed, there were details which he would amend m committee. It was proper to value by the governor— -the real property. In personal property, it was proposed a man shall be bis own valuator. The owner to send m a return to the Deputy Commissioner, deducting as he may think fit any debt he may owe. It was *the duty of the commissioner to object if he thought fit. It was then for the owner to substantiate the return he had made before officers called reviewers. In thai case there would be no prying into tho man's affairs. It would be the object of the Government to secure men "of high standing as reviewers, and render them altogether independent of the Government of the day. a s regards the exemptions proposed by tho bill, the Government would be prepared to accept any reasonable proposal on the point. Of personal effects they proposed exompting to the extent of £300. Books and works of art would not ' be exempted m consequence of the great difficulty that would be occasioned thereby. If law libraries, for example, were to be exempted, it it would be just as reasonable 'to insist upon the implements of the manufacturers being exempted. The Government would be prepared to accept reasonable proposals on the point. He would ask tliat the bill might be so far altered as to make the tax recoverable from the mortgager instead of the mortgagee. He made that proposal with the view of preventing properties being twice taxed. The question of how much was to be levied on property was not touched upon by the bill. It was purely a machinery bill, and it was to be hoped that m discussing it they would not mix up the general question of taxation. They hsd to make up one and a-half million per annum to meet the demands of the public creditor; and without some such tax as this they would always be m the position of being com pelled to adopt some temporary expedient for making good its ilabUities. The proposal was simply to provide the machinery, and then, as occasion required, to fix th amount. This year they proposed to make it one penny. In ardving at that determination, he was actuated by the feeling that they had to face very unI certain times, and it was very necessary they should not overrate their revenue. Then again, their expenditure was more than it should be. They would nse every effort toward economy ; still he could not at present take that purpose into account. He had, thefore, estimated the expenditure as that of last year. In that case he had shown that a deficit of £800,000 or £900,000 would exist. They proposed to meet the House m May, and if they found the revenue was rising, or the expenditnre falling, the amount of bne penny could be reduced to what was deemed necessary before next March. They would have to borrowsome £Boo,ooo, and it was just possible their loans would not be negotiated by that time. VVith this tax, they would be m a position to go into tho money market with a better -grace, having ordinary expenditure amply covered by taxation. The proposals, looked at impartially, he thought members would agree that an income tax would be inexpedient at present.Mr Ballance criticised the remark made that the proposed tax of Id m the £ was chiefly made for the purpose of raising the credit of the colony m the London money market. To deal with.the subject properly it would be necessary to revise the whole of the financial proposals of last year. The Treasurer called the* unearned increment a figment, but thia year he deals with it as a reality. He told them that an income tax was more inquisitorial than a property tax, but he had given no proof m support of the statement. Under an income tax it was only m cases of doubt that it was rendered inquisitorial. Now, he asked, would it be the same m regard to property? There were a large number of concerns m the colony m which large c mounts were invested; mining companies, for instance, which paid no income at all. Now, thia bill will fall j>s heavily on these as it would fall on concerns paying incomes. They had evidence that the land tax, which was condemned by the Treasurer, was being resorted to by other colonies. If they eliminated all the objections from the land tax incidental to its inauguration, then he would say they had a land tax acceptable to the whole country. There was a great danger of chopping about from one tax to - another, and that w as precisely what the Treasurer proposed to do. If a scramble was to be permitted m committee, as the Treasurer had partly prepared them for, then it would merge from the committee m a shape altogether different from what it now" professed to be. . The credit of the colony depended, not as the Treasurer would lead them to suppose, on one tax, but on the whole system of taxation. Ono of the most prosperous olasses m the colony was the professional man, and he was to escape altogether, 'ihe question arose — was all this crushing taxation necessary ? They had been told it was to be a shifting tax — small m prosperous times and heavier m other times. He would contend that the taxation was not called for, as a sum of £200,000 had been miscalculated iv the Estimates. A large amount of the represented deficiency was due to the manner m which the Treasurer broug-ht down his statement. He saW* no reason to reduce the revenue £250,000 as the Treasurer had done. Th« late Government had been blamed for not calling the House iogether earlier than they did. He, however, contended that there was no reason — no financial one— for doing so. One charge made against the late Government was that it lived on the land fund. It was, the Treasurer who first established the 'principle of bringing the land fund into the public account m 1875, and he (Mr Ballance) went on to show that tho late Government had levied on that fund far less tKan the Government of which the Treasurer had previously been a member, and even yet his (Major Atkinson's) Govergment had not ceased to live on that fund. He contended that the liabilities had been over-estimated, and that large items had been put down which would not come due for payment this financial year. The Treasurer had attacked his Estimates of the last year. The faot was that they had estimatod £100,000 from the land tax, and they would receive that amount Within £10,000, In the Financial .statement for this year a mis-statement of £5u,000 of taxation alone had been made. The expenditure was over-estimated by £79,000, and other items were quoied and criticised to show that the computation was altogether wrong, Mr Shrimski theu addressed the House m opposition to tbe bill.

Mr Maoandrew said that all the minority could do waa to record their protest against the measure. The feeling produced iv his mind was tbat, after spendirg 30 years of his life m New Zea* land, he would have to leave the country. Before imposing a tax of this kind every other means should have been exhausted. The Estimates ought to have been Cut dowa by the Government. The expenditure proposed was altogether out of the question. He saw nothing for it, but jus ta go to a vote and allow the Government to make «<a kick and mill" of the measure.

Air Dick had an idea that the difficulties of the colony h*4 been overstated, and he was glad to flnd the Treasury now took a mo *« hopeful view ot matters. Mr Moss spoke against the bill.