THAMES – WAIKATO RAILWAY.

Waikato Times, Volume XIII, Issue 1112, 9 August 1879, Page 2

THAMES - WAIKATO RAILWAY.

c HANSARD,' JULY 23.

Mb Richahd3ox. — Sir, I am placed rather iv a difficulty Avith regard to tho resolution Avhich lam about to moA r e, as its subject-matter has been discussed m fche House already to some extent. I shall, nevertheless, say what I haye to say, because the question involved is oue which I consider of very great importance. My reasons for bringing this matter forward m the shape of a motion instead of iv the form of an ordinary question aro two. In the first place, last year Avhen I asked a (juejjsfcioii ov a somewhat simiUu - subject.

the Minister for Public Works called ma to task for nofc having given him an opportunity of referring to debatable matter Avhich was m volved. In the nexfc place, I thought that the matter required far more explanation from -mo than I should bo able to offer to the Houso m asking a question. Ifc willbe remembered that last year the question of tho Tapanui Railway Avas before- tho Hou^e, and that;.., after some information had been laid on the fcable m connection Avith the oonfcrac't let, I moved a resolution on the 21fch September to this effect :-r- •

"That, m vieAV of the large expenditure now proposed . on railways and other pubdc works, this House is of opinion that, m future, uo ooutracts should be entered I into, by the Government; till after the, money for siich works has been duly appropriated by Parliament."

Honorable members who wore here will remember the debate whioh took place ou that motion, and they will also remember that the Minister for Public Works rather took credit to himself for the action ho had taken m that matter. I myself was of a very different opinion, and honorable gentlemen will remember that, though tho division which was taken Avas adverse to the motion, yefc the expressions of opiniou round the House were generaUy m its favor. Aud, Sir, whou I heard of the Avork which this motion of mine refers to, it appeared to me that the Government instead of being Avarned by fcho discussion which took place last year, had not only committed the same act agaiu, 1 bufc had gone even a great deal further than m the otKor instance. Tho Thames -Waikato RaUway, as brought before the House, was the railway from the Waikato to the crossing-place at the head of fche navigable portion of tho Thames River afc Te Aroba, and I maintain that an extension of the Une beyond this latter point to Grahamstown has not only not been authorised, but has never been discussed or brought before this House at all ; certainly no vofcs has been taken for ifc that any membsr of this House is aware of. In the Public Works Statement of last year tha Minister, stated that the Government proposed to construct the Thames and Waikato RaUway, tho distance being stated at thirty mUes ; and further on he stated that this Avas.the only Uno m the North Island which the Government proposed, as to which they had accurate data end surveys to go upon. He went on to say, m giving the costs of other railways proposed, that the Waikato to the Thanies line Avould cost £168,000, and the branch line to Hamilton £10,000. Now, m the Public Works Statement proper — that is,' the statement made by the honorable member — the only other reference to this railway is contained m -sjage 10, where, m speaking of the benefits expected to accrue from the construction of these railways, ho said that additional value would be given to large blocks of land m the Thames and Piako districts, from tho fact of railway communication being likely to be opened between Grahamstown aud tho Waikato. That, as far as T know, is the only reference Avhich has been made afc any time to an extension of the railway towards Grahamstown — with one exception, which I shaU allude to presently. There is no doubt about Avhat Avas intended should be the Une to be constructed. In Mr Blackett's report, attached to' the Public Works Statement, there is the report of the engineer (Mr Stewart) who made the survey of the line ; and that gentleman commences by stating that — * ' A survey of a proposed railway lino has been made from the Waikato to the Thames, at Avhich Mr James Stewart reports to the following effect : The f uU length of this line will be' about thirty miles, commences afc or near tho HamUton Railway Station, crossing the Waikato a short distance beloAV Hamilton Township, and terminating afc a landing-place on the Thames river afc Aroha."

Mr Stewart Avinds up his report- by stating that, 'including tlie branch railAvay to Hamilton of 'two miles, the total cost of , the railway Avould be £175,000. The only other mention of this railway m fche parliamentary papers that I am aware of, is m a report of a survey made by Mr Simpson m 1873, Avhich report Avas laid on the table of this House. Ifc Avas the result of a, survey made afc the request of the Provincial Government, Avho forwarded a petition on the subject to the General Government. It Avas an exceedingly rough survey, because afc the time there Avas a Maori difficulty existing, and Mr Simpson Avas unable to do more m some parts than Avalk over the line, and I believe that m some places he Avas not even alloived to. do that. A t all events he made a report on the line, Avhich Avound up m this way : —

" Looking afc the proposed route m all its bearings, I should advise the extension of the Grahamstown and Tararu Railway to Kopu, three'milQS ; from thence makiug use of the river (decidedly tlie best m the province) to the Thames" crossing ; and a railway of thirty miles to the Waikato.''

Ifc has always been the intention of various Governments, as far as I know, to utilise fche faoilifces for navigation afforded by the Thames river up to Ta Aroha ; and the House Avas informed and led to believe last year, when ifc was voting the £175,000, that it was voting ifc for a railway

Mr Macandi-CAV.— Only -£30,000 was voted.

Mr Richardson. — Yes ; but, on the application and on tho .statement of tho Minister for Public Works, the Houso Avas committed to an expenditure of • £178,000, out of which sum the honorable gentleman asked for and receiA'ed a vote of £30,000 on account of the railway from tho Thames to the Waikato, and a sum of £2,000 towards the construction of the. branch line to Hamilton. There can be no question, Avhatever, as to what tho statements of fche Government ivero, and what tho House believed afc the time. Well, Sir, what has been done ? I have no doiibfc that the honorable member has all the information at hand which I am noAV moving for, and that ifc Avill bo laid on the table very soon ; but, as ,far as I understand Avhat I have seen m the .papers, some two or three contracts, amounting to £26,000, have been let; for Avork m connection Avith a railway altogether different from the one which Avas before this House, and thirty miies away from the line which Avas authorised ; and, instead of the country being committed to the construction of a railway thirty miles m length, aud to cost £178,000, ifc is committed to the construction of a railway, nearly sixty miles m length, to cost, irrespective of bridging, about £340,000. In addition to that there is fche cost of bridging the Thames river, Avhich, m a document that I think the honorable member Avill find m tho offico of the department, is set down afc something like £30,000 or £40,000. do.it may safely he said that tho country is iuA-ofved m expenditure to the extent of £310,000 instead of £175,000, Avhich the Government led fche House fco believe last year Avould be tho extent of fche liability. I hava no more- to say on the matter at present. Of course, ifc will depend a great deal upon the information which ' fche honorable gentleman has fco give m response to this motion, Avhafc further action Avill be fcaken. Before moving the resolution, howeA'cr, lavlU just say this: That tho map attached to. tho Public Works Statement, Avhich the - honorable member referred to .just now, did, as ho states, show the then proposed line at an estimated cost of £175,000. The other map which I moved for, shows the line carried on to Grahamstown. But I havo paid pretty close attention to this question, aiid as far as I am awaro,no such extension, to Grahamstown has over been pro- ...•■! '•• "SI

posed to this House, Another matter has just occurred to my mind, of a somewhat similar description. I saw an advertisement calling for tenders— which, I believe, axe fco be sent m to-day — for a branch line to Grey town. Now", iis far as I can ascertain by looking at tho different Acts, the only authority the Government over had for commencing the construction of that branch lino— which is, 1 believe, about three miles m length ; ivhat ifc is to cost Ido not know— is contained m an amending Act of the Public Works Act passed last session. In tho 23rd clause of tho rmending Act two or three words wore put m, and I am perfectly certain nobody m tho Houso understood them. At any rate, I asked Avhat fchey meant, and ( I waa simply fcold, by an honorable gentleman sitting on fchoso benck^s, but Avho is nofc now m the House, that tho amendments contained m that clause Avere only to meet the technical requirements of the department. The Avords Avere — "with branchos." They Avere added to the Fourth Schedule of " The Public Works Act, 1576," after the word " Mastortoh :" and the consequence of those words having been slipped. in there is that the Government have power to make any branch line they think fit, and of any length, between Masterton and Wellington. , I am sure no member of this Houso had any idea that such power was given by the addition of two or three words, which Avere stated to bo technical amendments required by the department. If Aye had .had any idea that they conferred such ' power a great deal of explanation Avovld have been required from tho Government. I point out this as. another caso whero the Government aro most dcoidediy exceeding the powers this House supposed ifc had conferred on them,

Motion made, and question proposed, "That it is expedient that this House should be informed— (l) Whether the conditions attached to clause 3 of - The Railways Construction' Act, 1878,' have been complied with m respecfc of the railway from Waikato to the" Thames ; (2) if so, when, the plans and estimates, with a certificate from the Chief Engineer that the route chosen for the railway is tho best avaUable, were submitted to the Governor m Council; (3) when the approval of the Governor m Counoil was given ; and (-!) what; contracts have been let on this railway, and the date the same Avere let." — (Mr Richardson.*)

Mr Macandiew. — The Government have no objection Avhatever to the adoption of this resolution, as ifc is only acticipating action Avhich. is now m hand. The Statute requires that all this information should be laid on the table within a gii'en day ; but ifc involves a vast amount of work. I am afraid wo shaU have all avo can' do to get ifc up within the date — namely, before the 11th of next month. When tho time comes I hope ifc will be seen that all this indignation is about a myth. I am • not going to discuss the matter now, beI cause I think ifc is premature. Let us ["have the information before us. Bufc I Avould say this much ; This railway has been constructed, nofc under the authority of the Public Works Statement, but under the authority of an Act of Parliament — m fact, under the authority of two Acts. One of them, I think, is quite unnecessary ; but I will take them both — namely, the Publio Works Appropriation Act of last session and the Railways Construction A ct. Either of them will apply, but I think one is quite sufficient;. With regard to the Grey town branch, I understand that the Avords " and branches" were expressly added to fche Act to enable this branch to be made. I do nofc knoiv m what year ifc Avas done. Mr Richardson. — Last year.

Mr Macaudrew. — That escaped me, but I certainly understood that those words Avere inserfcod for the express pnrpose of enabling this branch, or any other of a similar nature coming Avithin the appropriations of the House, to be constructed; so that I think there is nothing so very outrageous iv that. That line Avill be shown to be strictly Avithin the four corners of the Act. All the information sought m this resolution, is being prepared, aud avUI be placed on the table so soon a i the maps can be copied. The Avhole thing is a fai'oe. The placing of those plans'on the fcable hrvolves a vast amount of unnecessary Avork. %

Mr Richardson.— l did not ask for plans .at all. Mr Macandrew. — Bufc the plans aro required by law, and they Avill be placed on the tablo.

Mr Brown. — Whether the work has beeu done Avifchhvthe four corners of the Act or not, all that is proved by this conversation, aud by others that have taken place m this House, is the very great danger that arises from tho loose Avay m which the House is iv the habit of voting money for public works. If. it is argueby a Minister of the CroAvn that everything is right because something has been smuggled into an Act wliich the House did nofc understand, aud which does not correspond with the Pnblic Works -ifcafcomenfc made by the Minister before. All I can say is that the couutry Avill never know what this House is about;, or whether tho money we have fco pay so much interest for is hamg spent; as the House and the country directed. Now, ifc was stated this afternoon that a map Avhich Avas laid on the _ table of this House later m the session, relating to this business is not the same map as was attached to the Public Works Statement of last year. Well, if that is the ease, no explanation was made from the Government benches. AVhon fche second map ivas laid on the fcable, I. undertake to say that every person m tho House believed it was the same map as was attached to fche Public ' Works Statement. That Avas quite natural, and 1 think honorable members are to be excused if fchey supposed that the Minister for Public Works told the House all that he intended to do ivhcn he made his Public Works Statement. If tho House is to he subjected to surprises of this kind— if we have to watch with jealous care every bit of paper put 'on the table after a statement; by a Minister — I do nofc think Aye shall be safe m doing our business without having au investigation by a Committee before it is done. Tho honorable gentleman who spoke first, alluded to the Tapanui contract;. I must say I never felt so much ashamed of Avhat was done by this House as I was of the manner m whioh the Houso sat down quietly under that Tapanui business last year. I think ifc Avas the most direct slap m the face about the expenditure of public money that 1 this House has ever received. The Government deliberately went away from what this House voted ; tho House laughed, admitted that it was the case, anel said, "Ifc is all right; let ifc pass." That is virtually what honorable members did. It was s discredit; fco this House, and a very dangerous preoedent. But, dangerous as' I thought ifc, no ono could havo supposed that tho Government Avould follow the same courso within the year. When tho Premier turned the first sod of this Thames Railway, the Avhole country was astonished. I undertake to say that there Avas nofc a member of the House, nofc m tho secrets of tho/Government, Avho had fcho least idea that 'even the Government had an intention of 'carryin°* the railway along tho navigable part of the Thames. It Avas never dreamt of, m tho House. I exceedingly doubt Avhether the Minister for Public Works dreamt of ifc himself ; audi dare say he Avas as much shocked as anybody else Avhen his colleague turned the first sod of the railway. I do not think that a man of his common sense, avlio has no particular ■ interest m that part oi? tho cpuuty, ami whose duty

i ifc is to see that fcho money is properly 1 expended, would for one moment; have thought of eu'ch a thing. Even if the money Avas' voted by fche House, ivifch so little money fcg spend, Avith so many difficulties m tho Avay of carrying out such a railway, and when there arc other Avorks of a more pressing nature all over the country Avaifciug to bo carried out, "T do nofc think ho ivouldhave done ifc. But I am afraid that after the Tapanui business ho is firmly convinced that if ifc inadvisable to do a certain 'thing it does nofc matter whether the House voted for ifc or not. Although m this case he thought it advisable to endorse fche action oi the Premier, I do not believe his common sense would allow him fco do sinh a thing on his own account. When this matter is thoroughly looked into, I still believe ifc Avill bo found to have been illegally done from beginning to end. ' Mr McLean.— This is really such a serious matter, and so closely affects the Thames Electoral District, that I quite expected the Premier Avould get up m his place, and give the Housp some explanation of his illegal transaction, m Avhich the. Premier of the colony entered into engagements Ayifchout.the sanction of this House, and ivifchoufr tho knowledge of any member of fche House that such a railway was to bo made. Whether or nofc the railway is a proper one to make is one question ; but the principal point is that the Premier of the colony has sefc this House at defiance, "and the Minister for Public Works stands up and declines to give ansivers to fche very simple questions on tho Paper, merely tolling us that by-and-by he will place all the wipers ou the table.^ Ifc ivas a very simplothing for him to give answers -to those questions. Wo do nofc require plans and papers m order to get the answers. We now see the position m Avhich those members are placed Avho voted last year for the Tapanui Railway. I am bound to say that no honorable member ivho saw that place Avould object' to the making of a railway there; and I believe it Avill be one cf the besfc-paying lines m the colony. But let me ask honorable members what is now tho consequence of their votes on that illegal transaction. Although I come myself from that place, I opposed that transaction. 1 did not oppose the railway ; I only opposed the House sanctioning an /illegal transaction, m Avhich fche Minister for Public Works Avent out of his Avay to commit this House to contracts Avhich it never approved of. What is the 'result; ? They say that they Avill let as many of such contracts as they please. I Avas astonished Avhen the Minister for Public Works brought cloavu the Railways Construction Bill last year, which asked this House to deliberately place m the hands of the Government eight millions of money to do with ifc whatever they pleased, and tb place it out of the control of the House. I .stood aghast, and asked them when they Avanted to meet the House again. I presumed they did nofc Avanfc us hack again for three or four years, so long as ive passed a Loan .Bill, and provided them Avith money to carry ou. What railway did this House understand ifc Avas voting for? I deliberately A'ofced for the line from Hamilton to To Aroha, bufc I did not vote for it because I believed ifc would be a paying railway. I am. nofc one of those Avho think that; no railway should be made under any oircumstances' unless it Avill pay 'handsomely. The railway I voted for was to join with he head of the navigation to the Thames. Ifc Avas to go through native property, and Avoizld tend to settle the native difficulty. I believe myself that the best way fco settle the native difficulty, is to follow the plan adopted by the late Sir Donald McLean, of making roads all through and into the native lauds, so as to get at them. We voted for that, and I deliberately s-ay that I myself shall nofc have the slightest hesitation iv advising that those railways which are paying well shall help to pay for such railways. I have no hesitation iv going that length. But is this House to be sefc afc. defiance by .'the Ministry simply saying that .they, would do Avhafcever they pleased Avifch reference to this railway? We have heard of the Premier going to the Thames and making a speech there. He said he had a dream a long time ago that there Avere so many families m this Valley of fche Thames, and that it was flowing Avith milk and honey. He was applauded greafcly by a number of gentlemen there, Avho, when speaking- to me on the subject afterwards, said they would just as soon expect a .railway fco be made from the moon as a railway to be made there. Under the first contract let — the reclamation portion of the Avork — fcho Government paid very nenrly -GS.OOO. I am very sorry to say it", bufc such is the case. They could have obtained a block of, land on the opposite side for about ■£1,000. I believe that Avould have done for the whole railway station, aad they would havo saved £7,000. I am sure, if the Premier had wished to do a kindness to the Thames people, he could have done a kindness m a Avay that thia House would probably not havo objected to. Instead of seeing all the claims stopped, as afc present, instead of seciug the Avafcor comiiig up around them and throwing hundreds 'of men out of employment, if fche Government; had taken steps fco assist them with that money, they Avould have dono a good thing foi.' the colony and a good thing for tlie people there. The people there did nofc fchiuk much" of the railway ; they would have preferred the line from* Hamilton to Ts Aroha— fco tho head. of tho ; navigation.. That line would have canf erred the greatest benefit upon them, because it would hava joined on to fche head of navigation and created a traffic doAvn tho Thames. But this i\n very small matter when compared to many things 1 saw mmy journey" to the North, and which I shall refer to afc another time. Wore this the best railway that could be made m New Zealand, I" should object to it. I shall stand up for the right of this House to insist that no railway shall be made Avifchoufc its full sanction. If a proposed railway is fairly discussed m this House, and approved of by honorable members with a full knowledge of Avhat they are doing, I shall never object to that railway beiug afterwards made ; bufc I shall object to tho 'making 'ot any railway whioh has not the full sanction of this House. No matter Avhat GoA'ernmenfc is m- poAver, Aye must draw the reius tighter, Wcmusfc see exaotly Avhat ive are voting money, for, what works aro to be carried out, and not put it iv the power of the Government; to snap their finders afc fche House. The Ministry must °not think they oan sit on those benches and aofc beyond tho poAvers conferred upon them. Before tho debate closes, I hope tho Goyernment will answer the questions pufc.fco thorn. We do not want the map * AA-e waufc the answers .to these questions. Mr Maoandrew.— We want tho plans. Mr McLcan.-^The Minister for Public Works could nofc enter into a transaction such as this, involving a large sum of money— l am afraid to say hoiv much— without haA'ing considered and without having a knowledge of what ho ivas doing. He does not require to send to the department iov papers to enable him to answer questions which mast havo engaged his attention for a long time before he gave his sanction to this Avork. If the honorable gentlemen ?.ro going to do these things illegally, they might afc once answer the questions put fco them, and nofc sot the House afc defiance. Ido hope the Minister for Public Works Avill answer the questions before tho debate oloses The motion Avas agreed fcq,