General Assembly.

Waikato Times, Volume XIII, Issue 1106, 26 July 1879, Page 2

General Assembly.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. WEDNESDAY. FEXCIXG RAILAA'AY LIEES. In reply to Mr Turnbull, Tho Minister for Public Works said, as regards the intention of tho Government to complete the fencing of main linos m tho Middle Island, that when the Public Works Statement was brought doAvn the attention of the House would be directed to the matter. THE TITAMES-WAIKATO EAILAVAY. Mr Eichardson moved, "That it is expedient that the House be informed — (I) Avhether the conditions attached to clause 3 of the Railway Contractors Act, IS 7B, have been complied Avith m respect of the railway from Waikato to tho Thames ; (2) if so, Avhen the plans and estimates, with a certificate from the Chief Engineer that the route chosen for the railway is the best available, were submitted to the Governor m Council; (3) when the approval of the Governor m Council avus given ; and (4) what contracts have been let on this railway, and the rate the same were let at." The Minister for Public Works stated that the Government had no objection to the motion. The information was being prepared, and Avould be forthcoming when ready. All the work done on these lines had been done within the four corners of the Act. Mr Brown stated that when the line m question was commenced, he helieA r ed there Avas not a member m the House kneAV ahout it, It Avas another Tapanui job, to which he was perfectly ashamed the House had submitted. Mr McLean said it would have been a very simple thing for the Minister for Public Works to have given an answer to j the questions put forward m the motion, ! and not tell the House that the information J would he forthcoming at some future time. ! He did not object to a railway of this kind being made, but he objected to Ministers undertaking such Avorks afc their OAvn pleasure. The Avork had been gone about m a most extraordinary way. A block of land for station purposes cost £SOOO, whereas, an equally good site on the opposite side of the road, could have been got for £1000. What he contended for Avas, that no railway should bo made unless f idly sanctioned by the House. No matter what Government was m. poAA r er, the reins must be diwwn tighter, and transactions of this kind put an end to. Mr Turnbull thought it was unreasonable to expect an off-hand reply to the question hi the motion, and gave ifc as his opinion that the promise given was tho most that could, under the circumstances, be expected. Mr Rolleston alluded to the address by the Premier at the turning of tho first sod iv commencing the line, and thought that the House was eutitled to the explanation. Jt Avas a political railway, and, us suoh,

I tho Premier of tho colony ought not to I have put, his hand to it. Sir W. Fox said he hoped it would he understood that they were not opposing the right of the Thames people to this or an}' railway. What they protostod against Was the unconstitutional proceeding of tho Government m making the alteration m the lino which had beon done. It was the least necessary portion of the line that had been made, and that m defiance of a resolution of the House. Mr Richardson, m replying, agreed wifch the sentence of the last speaker. He regretted that the Minister for Public Works had not taken the opportunity afforded him for giving tho information asked. The motion was put and carried. TUE ADDRESS IX REPLY DEBATE . Mr bheehan said he would ask the indulganco of the House, inasmuch as he was laboring under an indisposition which to some extent affected his voice. He had to thank the gentlemen on the opposition side of the House for conoenting to the adjournment of the debate for the previous evening. He was glad to find that whatever difference of opinion might exist m regard to political questions, a good feeling existed between members personally. The Government was m a very awakward position with regard to this matter. The custom for years past, for the last seven years at all events, during which time ho had been m the House, was to allow the debate on the reply on the address without raising any questions as to confidence or no confidence m the Government, that had also been the Case for a long time previous to the time of his going into the House. The question embodied m the amendment had at this time, at all events, been mado unfairly and unjustly raised, inasmuch as that documents, statements, and figures on which the Government relied, had not yet been produced. Ho proceeded to deal with the merits of tho case. Ho would point out that the gentlemen on tho othor side of the Houso wero entirely, responsible for preventing the Government getting the amount of money requisite for carrying on the ordinary service. Thoy had professed their entire concurrence m the policy set forth m the Address. In that case it was their duty to allow the reply to the Address to go by default, m which case it would have been "quite competent for them to havo brought down their no-confidence motion the vory next day. None, however, would believe these px-ofessions, however plausibly they might be put. They were simply acting the wolf m lamb's clothing. Their statement about their acquiescence m the policy was simply an attempt to baulk thafc policy. It was impossible folium to have remained m the House dnring tho whole course of the debate m consequence of the many public engagements he had had on hand during the last few ' days. He would not therefore pretend to deal with the whole ot the remarks made by the speakers who had taken part m the debate. He would content himself with the dealing ( with the speech made •by the hon. member for Wanganui. He thought he was quite entitled tn assume that he was the prime mover m this matter. He was entitled to look to him as tho responsible party, Avhatever the result of this A'ofce 'might be, either to the Government or to himself. A s an individual he desired to express his personal admiration of the hon. gentleman, either as a public man or , Premier of the colony. He had been before the Colony of New Zealand for the last 35 years. He must confess a feeling of great disappointment afc the turn the discussion had taken. His speech was devoid of those statesmanlike qualities to be looked for m a man of his standing. Various charges had been preferred against the Government, and while he admitted that they were not m all respects the Simon Pure, they would compare favourably with the gentlemen on the other side, who were so anxious to step into their plaoes. The fact was, these gentlemen considered fchey had a majority behind them, hence this motion, and the talk about mal- administration and all the rest of it. It was simply put on for tke occasion. He would repeat the statement he had already made m the House, that it was quite impossible to ruin the country by means of bad Government. In spite of the Government, no matter how bad ifc maybe, the country would survive, aye prosper too. {.ir W. Fox told them that a Maori Avar Avas iminenfc. He would be able to shew that the hon. gentleman was solely responsible for that state of things. Respecting the charge of mal-adminis-tration, that Avas a A r eiy difficult charge to meet, but he would confine himself to that charge on two points. Afc all events, tho present Government Avould compare favorably Avith any other Government. It struck him that if they succeeded m getting the vote carried against the Government, then all the trouble would come from thoir side, They had beon told thafc afc tho close of last session the Opposition Avas Avilling, or rather anxious, to help them m carrying through their measures. Now, the fact; Avas that the Opposition last session spout tlieir time m the attempt to burko the measures of thn Government. Ifc Avas a great pity that Sir W. Fox had not come iato office at the abolition of the provinces. He had given tho country a chance of spoaking out on thafc point. At a general election they might depend upon ifc he Avould not have boon m the House that night. Sir W. Fox had dealt- with the administration of the Public Works. Ho* Avould leaA'e his charges on that head to be dealt with by the Head of fcho Department impugned — the Minister for Public Works, Avho had proved himself to be one of tho most honest ;),nd true-hearted men m the House. Mr Sheehan theu Avcnfc on to reA r ieAV the charges niuck. against him m connection with Major Mail' and Mr C. O. Davis. With regard to the latter, ho had heard ifc stated all over the colony that he Avas to blame for not having (Mr Sheehan) had been six months m office before he made the change. He Avas surprised to find'people iv that House Avho would stand up and advocate the cause of Mr DaA'is. Ho had found out most eonlusivcly that he had attempted to sow the seeds of disaffection amongst the natives, and if the dismissal of the ivan from office Ajjas tho only charge he had to meet, then he,Mr Sheehan would bo perfectly content. Major Mair, had, m the first instance, been a useful servant. At first he filled the office of Magistrate at Waikato, and Avhen he came to Wellington to claim eonjpensation for the loss of his office, he (Mr Sheehan) at first gave him all assistance and convenience he could. That Avas during the last session of Parliament. Towards the last week of the session, he found out thafc Major Mail? had beeu ii^ correspondence with the clpef IlteAvi, and had used his best endeavors to irritate his mind against the Government. When taxed with this conduct, he'admitted it. He pleaded that at the thi\Q his own mind had been made Avretched by the loss of ' offioe, &c. He (Mr Sheehan) overlooked the offence afc that time, and told him not to allow ifc to occur again. A promise to that effect Avas made, and, m the face of that promise, ho found out that he had ' again been tampering with the chief that very night. With regard to the treatment of Mr Booth, referred to by Sir W. Fox, that officor had been reported against by a public servant. The action taken he (Mr Sheehan) thoroughly endorsed. An inquiry Avas instituted, Avhich m the main, relieved him of the charges preferred. Nothing could have been fairer than affording Mr Booth an opportunity of clearing his character, which he did. Ifad the Government summarily dismissed, ai).d refused any investigation into the matter, then the member for Wangauui might

have had just grounds for condemnation. Mr Booth now occupied a higher position than hitherto under any previous Government. The member fotv Wanganui Avas altogether incorrect m stating that Mr Booth Avas buying land for the Government Avhen the inquiry took place. The 140,000 acres referred to by Sir W. Fox Avere negotiated m 1871. since Avhen all matters liad been m abeyance until Avithin the past few mouths. The same with Ohamakapua and another block. Negotiations for Ohamakapua had begun some four or five years ago by Sir D. McLean. .Large sums of money had been paid to Senate Kawcpo and Richard Maney m 187*3. From that date until 1879 nothing had been paid. Owing to these years of delay the natives availed themselves of the enhanced prica of the land, consequent upon the public works of the colony, and demanded a higher price ihan had been originally agreed upon. The negotiations arc noAV m a fair Avay of completion, and he hoped thafc by next month the lands Avould be passed through the Court and purchased. He altogether objocted to the charges made by Sir W. Fox, thafc ifc Avas OAVing to the action taken Avith Mr Booth thafc these delays took place. They Avere solely owing to tardiness on the part of the lafce Government. In replying to imputations respecting Mr Luckie' s appointment, the speaker pointed out that Sir W. Fox, when Premier, had not only transferred members of thafc House into the public service, but men, strangers to the country, had been promoted over tho heads of Civil Servants of long standing. Ho (Mr Sheehan), speaking for himself, Avould stato that he had been seven months m office before he made a single appointment. Touching upon the Cabinet dispute between Mr Ballance and Sir George Grey, he denied the accuracy of Sir W. Fox's statement to the House. The Government had been told on their assumption of office, that there Avas no dissatisfaction among the natives. Sir W. Fox said there Avas no murders except when the young men Avent out m the shooting season. Thus were the murders of Sullivan, Todd, and others referred to, as if tho unfortunate men had been so much game. He denied that negotiations with the King party had been a failure, *and shoAved thatthe terms submitted were •identical, excepting m ouc small particular, Avith those submitted by tho late Government. At the Kopua meeting, Tawhiao had expressed himself strongly m favour of the Government. Reviewing native affairs about 1877 : Although the natives had shown no inclination for war, the Waikato people had been living sullen and apart. Overtures liad been made by every Government without any favourable result. No w the Native Land's Court had been presided over m the Waikato territory, and extinguishment of the native title to fcho land is quietly proceeding. The hon. gentleman slioAvcd that, owing to the action of the late Government m alloAving the land-specu-lators to go into the Waikato territory with surveyors, the country had for the past year been on the verge of Avar. He himself Avas aware of armed parties accompanying surveyors, Avhcroby the peace of the country Avas endangered. Not uutil Sullivan had been shot did the Government step m and stop this work. On no occasion Avere our relations Avith the Waikatos on so satisfactory a footing as at the present time. Ho remembered Sir D. McLean Avaifcing six Avecks at Alexandra without any result being achieved. Every effort made bjr thd previous Governments to improve matters resulted m utter failure. On the present Government assuming office m 1577, they were iuAdfced by TaAvhiao, the Maori King, to go up to Waikato, and before the late meeting an invitation Avas received from Te Ngakau and Rewi Maniapofco, the latter the largest landowner and greatest chief of the Ngatimaniapoto tribe, who insisted upon their going. It Was. solely owing to the evil advice given to Tawhiao, by certain Europeans tha'fc caused the nonfulfillment of the negotiations. Notwithstanding, tho meeting Avas successful, a mnch more important result followed. For years past, the King problem waa difficult to deal with. The ground unoccupied was a source of danger. TaAvhiao Avould not come to terms, and Rewi determined to act for himself First ot all Rewi and he (Mr Sheehan) settled th. source of trouble, and he believed the cause of the murder of the murder of Sullivan was crossing the boundary line. He argued thafc if the Government Avould agree for a reasonable term', and protect a certain area of country from being sold or leased, Rewi Avould do his best to sortie the tribal boundaries. Thispqiufc was full of meaning. That a man who had been against us should now enter our Native Land Court to decide tho boundaries, appeared a simple thing, but Avas of much importance, as King Maoris laughed and scoffed at the Native Land Court, and refued to alloAv their lands to pass through it. Rewi showed his sincerity to meet the Government of the country on fair terms. Certain persons, Europeans or Maoris, tried to produce a Avaul. of confidence m him. Rewi, however, kopt his own opinion of the matter. The truth of tho reports of these meetings had been questioned. Thore Avere several interpreters ' present. Each speech was checked half-a-do/en times, and altogether he believed no fairer reports had j appeared m typo. He Avould now refer to the Waimate Plains survey, When he came into office, he telegraphed to Major Brown to stop the survey of the Plains, aud he did not think now that his hon. friends Avould bo prepared to go ou with tbe survey. He had always acted m most perfect good faith. The Commit.isoner had retained also tho utmost good faith m the Government, Fie informed Te Whiti personally that fhe Qovernment intended to, stirvoy the Plains. The natives had abundant opportunity to settle on the reserves, but refused, it Avas not the case as alledged that the survey A\ r eut on Avifchoufc provision being mado for the natives. The first mistake was having tq take the land. No provision Avas made for holding ifc. He did not admit this A r iolated the confiscation. This Avas pointed out afc the time, but no aotion Avas taken, Whatever claim to, sympathy the Maoris had afc first they luid forfeited ifc by the rebellion of 1869 .jjjTho Government felfc bound to proceed • with tho survey of these lands, and ma,l\e proper proper provision, fqr the support of the natives. They intended to do this liberally . AAvards Avere made to loyal aud disloyal natives m IS6G by the Court of Compensation. Eieven years passed, and these awards were left unearned oqfc. . A case m December jast occur.w_d m Taranaki. A JVfaqri shewed Ipm a certificate for 50 acres from that Court, and he had been tAvo years Araiuly trying to get a Crown grant, while Europeans got theirs without difficulty, I^ots of such cases had arisen. The lots Avere kept back frequently to disgust the natives, and force them to sell their claims. Had not Sir W. Fox's Government actually bought from the , nathes the very lands Avhich had been taken as a punishment to them for- rebelliqn. Reference liad b.een made to intorvieAvs Avith Te Whiti.. Tc "Whiti was no ordinary man. He Avas a fanatic. It was t true Te Whifci had called him a thief, but he Avas speaking of the action of the Government m 1866, m which the hon. member for Wanganui held the seat. Te Whiti Avas a variable-ill-tempered man, and he (Mr Sheehan) thought thafc Avas simply an eh.nUitiqn oi ; temper, and it Ayqultj no,fc have been pru- ' dpnt fqr him to make auy bother about it. ; All the trouble Avas occasioned by proAdous Government. No mutter who sat on these benches, they would have to gq hy

promises previously made and not redeemed. In tbo "circumstances of the Waimate Plains block, there was nothing to justify tho action taken by the natives. Not a single promise remained unfulfilled. At the- time the surveyors were turned off, Titokawaru had diuwu money towards payment of his land, and up to the last moment appeared to acquiesce m tho Government, getting possession of the land- He (Mr Sheehan) had followed the charges of maladministration, as stated by Sir W. Fox. He Avould now point out that he considered many of them were most ungenerous. The great causo of trouble was the condition m which they, as a Government, found the native land purchases of the late Government. During the past twelve months the Government havo handed nearly half a million acres to the Waste Lands Boards during the next twelve months as much more Avoidd be put through the Court. The policy of the Government had been to acquire as much estate fairly as it could. For the sake of the country he hoped that tho policy would not be reversed. In Wanganui formerly the natives Avould not part Avith a single acre, but now the GoA'crnmenfc could not find money fast enough to pay for Avhat they wished to sell. TaAvhiao himself m a speech stated thao there Avould be no fighting. They only spoke of a railway road and bridge construction. Ifc Avas enough to couvince him (Mr Sheehan) that he Avas acting m good faith. One thing told them during thafc speech was, thafc Avith a new Government they Avould succeed m making better terms Avith their laud. Ho would noAV refer to the remarks made against himself. They Avere unfair and unmanly. In his public capacity ho had devoted from 7 a.m. till 10 p.m. to Ids official duties. THURSDAY. The first business to-day was the presentation of the folloAving petition by Sir W. Fox : " The humble petition of the undersigned residents of the Thames, m the Colony of NeAv Zealand, sheweth that ifc it is currently reported here and m tiie City of Auckland, that Wm. Fraser, Esq., Resident Magistrate of the Thames District antl Colonel of Colonial Forces, has been proved to have been guilty of cheating afc cards at the Auokland Club, m Auckland aforesaid, and for such offence has been expelled from the Club. Your petitioners therefore humbly pray that your Honourable Uouse will please to cause inquiry to be made Avhother such report is true, and, if co , to report to the Honourable House Avhethcr a Magistrate guilty of such an offence is any longer fit to hold Her Majesty's commission of the peace.— Your petitioners, &o.—( Signed) h£. K. Campbell, solicitor, Thames ; P. K. Donnelly, miner, Thames." The debate on the address m reply Avas taken up by Mr Turnbull., After him, Mr Macandrew said lie Avould, as one of the impeached, say a few Avoids m def one. Considering the terms of the amendment, it might have been expected that some serious and pointed charges of mal-ad-minisfcration .Avould have been put forward. Nothing specific was stated, so thafc there Avas very little left to reply to. The speech of the member for Geraldine Avas simply a repetition of the stock arguments made m the paper tho lion member represents. Regarding the charge made about using special trains, he had to say he had only been twice on a visit to Dunedin, and only on one of these occasions did he go by special train ; and m doing so ifc Avas to save expense to tho country. The speech of the leader of the Opposition Avas an apt illustrati'm of the maxim— "No case for tho prosecution; vbusc the Council for defence." All the Accusations put forward Avere most unworthy of the occasion. He Avould not speak m defence of his colleagues. He would leaA'c them to speak for themselves. Ho Avould first allude to one matter — thafc Avas the. appointment of Mr Luckie. He Avas, m all respocts, an eligible man ; and he believed the only objection to him was, thafc he was appointed by the present Government The office Avas not a sinecure. Ifc required the services of an active 'and intelligent man. In years past, the^ affairs of the office had drifted into confusion, and, iv juccordancc Avith an understanding last yea., the appointment Avas made. He personally Avould have been inclined to votoagainsfcM'r Luckie, as he was an advocat. for the abolition of a form of government Avhich he held m highrepute. Articles had been Avrifctcn on the suljecfc of life assurance by Mr Luckie, and before knowing Avho Avas tae author he concluded he Avas an eligible man. for tho office, hie denied that v single promise had ever been made by him as Minister of Public Works which liad not been fulfilled, or Avas not m course of being fulfilled, or for tho nunt'u.filmenb of which gold and valid reasons could not be given. Uo declared thafc one man could not administer fcho publio Avorks system of both Islands satisfactorily. Mr Richardson might have done so, but if lie got into office to morrow he Avould find things very mucli changed. He had made every effort to go on with the extension of the railway lino from Amberly to Foxhill, but could not undertake the avoim. lie mentioned it because , that Avork had been specially complained of. That department, as well as tho Railway Department generally wero m '-ood working condition. " Considering ° the fragmentary stato of the lines, that avu.s something to be proud of, and to a preafc extent proved the charges made by Sir W Fox to be unfounded. The present stato oi tlie public Avorks Avould compare favorI aoly Avith the Avorks earned outTby tho previous Government. It t ; Q ,ad be shown that less money had been uselessly squan- , dered on rarlwavs by this Government than by any other In support of that ho instanced the Mataura Railway contracts lotto the Rrogdens when they could havo oi .£.0,000 to tho colony, stress i uul b laid on what waa called the Tapanui job. Ihat work wu* done with the sanction of a committee of tlie wholo House The land m the neighborhood of tlio line was being put m. the market, and Avoukl far more than recoup the expense of tho lino] He wished ho could point ta iifty suoli remunerative jobs. He wished ifc to ho understood that ho had no person-il interest m the. work. The WaikatoThames \\i\o was said to have been be'<-un afc tho wrong end. There Avas soroo confusion m the att'aiv, arising fton. t ] ignorance of tho locality, Wit on lotting the contracts ho saw a Y once that tlie Avovk Avould requiro to be extended Ho thought ifc yr-as a great pity .he attention ol the House should h;v.o been distracted from the more inrp.artant part of the work of the session \y the dismission 0 f these questions. He could see no reason why the House should have no confidence ia the Government, There were many important subjects requiring to be dealt with— for instance, the opening out of tho country. Parties Avere so evenly balanced that he feared littlo else Avould be done this session than contesting for the Ministerial benches. In these circumstances he thought, they should all n «rco to a, dissolution, and go to the country ut once. Ife denied an insinuation to tho eft'oefc that the Premier had made him eat humble pie. Thafc Avas not the case. Ho had been alwaps treated Avith, pau'rtosy and consideration by the Pypmier, Any disagreement betweoa\ h,"** and the lato Colonial T^sj^ror Avas the result at a suddes. outburst of temper, and ifc was to he. regretted that ifc had over cause before the publio. Mr Adams folloAvod Opposition to the Government *md Avas followed byMessrs EU'y-co, aud Woolcock on the same, sido, Mr Reeves defending the Govern tnent.