MR SHEEHAN AND DENOMINATIONAL EDUCATION.

Waikato Times, Volume XII, Issue 982, 8 October 1878, Page 2

MR SHEEHAN AND DENOMINATIONAL EDUCATION.

Tjie Hon. Mr Sheehan is tlius reported m ' Hansard ' as having spuken on M r Curtis' Education Act mendmeiit Bill : — Sir Sheuhan : The honorable genrieinan hits appealed to the occupants of the Ministerial benches not to oppose the Bill. T will answer him at unco, and say that I

will oppose it straight ami thoroughly. 1 did not wish to take part m the debate myself, but I urn compelled to answer a fuw arguments adduced by tbe honorable areutleman who lias just spokon. la the first place, he tells us that, because the objection on the part of the Roman Catholic i is a conscientious objection, we cau-'iot discuss it, cannot judge or weigh it, but must allow it. Why, sir, supposing a sect were to start who had an objection to pay taxes— the Land Tax, for instance, or the Beer Tax,— are we to be shut out from making them pay on account, of their religious scruples r 1 Mr Giaborne : There is no analogy. Mr Sheehan: I think it is quito m point, because you cannot draw a line and state where conscientious objections should stop. The hon. gentleman says that the principle of secular education embodied m the Education Act is equivtlent to tho restrictions placed upon the Roman Catholics before the Emancipation. There is this broad distinction, however : that the whole people of the colony are placed upon the same footing by the law to which the hon. gentleman referred, but before the Catholic Emancipation the people were not placed upon the same footing. A. Catholic could not possess the franchise, couid not hold public office or enter Parliament, unless he subscribed a certain oath which was offensive to his conscience and religion Mr Gisborne: He cannot wend his children to these schools nuless he violates his conscience. Mr Soeehin : Wh%t ia the anßwer to that? The Bill keelf, by the provision* it contains lint there shall be no religious iiatruc .ioa ia the Boho.Hs to be est ihlish id un ler v. duriag Bchool hours t hat is tlv•iniwer that exposes the rjal sham of th»thiug—beo»uso ib ia a perfdet shvn. There is no maa m the I£ouho m >ru oa'lad upon thm I am to ap -ak oa cv^ia qu jetiou. 1 am an Irishunn aal a Catholic, and p oud of being both. My Irish claim is b lived to 8 >mo txteufc by the f*ot that j w.is bra m thf) colony. My C*tholic claim ii barred by the fact tha,-. 1 am told iii tho organ that represents the Catholic viewa m tnis cmti-.ry that f aua a ba I Citholic. Let ma be so. Lgt me tell the people who say so to remember the pa> able of the Pharisee who wont up to the temple to p r ay. 1 am contont to be thj humble publican : let thorn be th Phar.sees. [ will frtop at the Temple door : let them go up and tell the Lord what they have dove far Him. 1 intend to oppose this Bit. 1 shall do so the more wiliugly, because by v o tiug for it 1 should belie all my po'itioal life. In 1372 I was iaßtrumeiiCa 1 , as a member of t io Government m tha Province of Auck-in-i, i i b ioging m the first secular elucation law chat cima mo force m this o )loay. I intend to stand by the opinions I theu expre3sei 1 was then told that because of my acoi-in I waa not likely to be returned to a seat either ia fc'ie Provineiil Council or m this House. But I siy, if a mm cannot ea er this Home unless he has purchased the aupp )i'D of the C ithoLo vote upon •his question, it is bet er for him to stop on". of ifc. I doo'ino to h jld a scat here as representing any religious body. I come here as a colonist aud as a mcmber'of the community, and I decline to be bouud lo vote at the bidding of any bishop, or pr nst, or any other person. If I cannot keep my seat upon these benches without that support, 1 will leave them to-morrow cheerfully. The honorable member for VVaugaiiui. will pardon me for using a Scriptural text : it is a very short one, but much to the pohv. We are told that " the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." Some honorable members arc about to vote for the letter, and not for the spirit ; and I will prove that. If you carry this measure to j encourage the establishment of denominational schools, what will you have P Will you secure to the Catholics of this colony the control of their, own schools? There will be two or three small schools m the large towns controlled by the .Roman Catholics, but the bulk of the schools m the country will bs controlled aud governed by other demoninations. In all parts of Otago, Auckland, and Wellington, outside of the large centres of population, this will be the case — m the country districts the schools will be governed by other bodies ; and if the Catholics of the colony are rightly advised they will see this, and they will know that m their present course of action they have been wrongly advised. In 1872, when X was called upon to give a vote upon this question, I went into this matter for lnysjlf , and I found that m the Province of Auckland, with the exception of four or five districts, if a denominational law came into force, the whole power and control of the schools would vest m some denomination other than the Catholic. In the towns the Catholics arcstrong enough to support schools, but m the country, if they accept a bill of this kind, they will hand them over to other people. Even though I am called a "bad" Catholic, I am content to be so ; but I would not join with thoso who would put the Catholic people m an un failposition. Much of what I would have said has been spoken bj- tho honorable member for Cheviot, who pointed out what, to my mind, is an essential defect m any measure of this kind — that is, the tendency to keep alive national ami roligions difference, -wlnoh I hypo willnevvr find a foot-hold m this colony. As a fac"., they have got houis kiud of footing a w: you have got Oraogeiam and Eiiberniauism, aud you have all the elements of whit may lejome, under ii-jud ciou3 management a bitter religious and national struggle. Sir, 1 appeal to his House, I appaal to th 3 Catholic members of this bLouse, by their vote tonight upon this question, to help to stamp out anything ot tie kind, and to aid the the Government to continue to ass at them m providing education for the -whole colony upon the siine terms. It ig quite true th»t there have been objections fai ly urffed to the cliss of works u«ed m sch ols, aud on that pjint Catholic i have good cjuse for oooip'aiut. Ohi'dreu of cert tin apes ought to lnve a statement of f icts put before them, wi b no bias one way or another; and to that extent I would go over to the C tth 'lie body. 1 would help them by all the tn<-;ius m my power to secure a claaa of works which would leave the infant mini uninfluenced m any particular lirec!;i;n. If you do that, you meet all reasonable requirements ; if you go beyond that, you do an injustice. We hav<s beon told that this pi'opmed s/stem worked well m Kelson, 'awke's Bay, and m Westlanl. What a..-j the facts? These are tho facts, and 1 will defy contradiction of them : The Catholij schools m thoso plaeea were marly all kept by tho same people, French priests, of the Order of Mary, a body of men than whom no better ever entered the service of what may be called "the army of Christ." They were men who spent their whole lives m the service of God, all of whom d c 1 without a : shilling or an aero of lanl ; and if such I men would now conduct the system I ' should be almost disposed ro give them an ' opportunity if doing so. Bu% under the present condi i >n of things, it would be an injustice to the whole population, and it would be especially an injustice to the \ Catholic peopli if a measure of this kind ' w>:re passel. What are the evils that come from a system of secul ir educ iiioi: ? '. I have pointed out Mint if the ! Ctlhoiic people go m for the dt-u uniua- ; ti >ual !>yute n th u .y will, iv the country diitr.o";-, find the emtrol of thj schools m the hands o' o her : dcinniiiiiiti'ms. Surely, if Mi" BibU--— Old ;

KkiS T aidj ,V c % i( - *««lf,be worth ought to be able to resist the evils of the secular system. The teachers of religion have every -uornmg and evening, all day baturday and Sunday, for their work, and if they cannot keep tho children free from the contaminating influences of a system of secular education, the sooner they give up the work the better. It is perfectly absurd to talk about conscientious scruples. Many 'of my personal friends m I his House will L know, follow me and jump upon me for speaking as I do, but I contend that the mtorest of every Catholic lies m promoting the establishment of thoroughly and strictly secular education m the colony, and if they are rightly advised by the people who ought to lead them, they will go m that direction. I cay , furthermore it is beyond their power to alter it absolutely. They cannot do it. They wi simply make a fight m which they will be beaten, and they will I6ave behind quarrels and dissension that will last for years. I am sure that the hon. member for Nelson city «peaks from conviction, au n I", 1 , 1 , d .° whafc lie thinks i» rikht ; but I will tell him and the people behind him that he is going dead against the interests ot the people he wishes to serve, because the course which lie proposes would result m bitiHing up a barrier between the various sections of the people m tho colony —not only a religious bander, but a national barrier. Let us not ask who is Irish, English, or Scotch, but let us be warned by what has passed m the old country, and try to build up something better. Let us cudeavor to smooth'^, differences between Catholics and Protestants, aud to forget the wrongs that both have suffered. Let ua build up a new order of things. If you wish to do that, however, you must not have denominational edueatiou. The time will come when one will not be asked whether he is a I rotcstant, a Presbyterian, or a Catholic, when he is entering the House, but he will be called upon to come here to do the people's business ; and, also, the time will come when the Catholic people will admit the force of the arguments I am using, and will sec that their real interest lies m supporting a strict and thorough system of Becular education.