WAIRARAPA EAST COUNTY.

Wairarapa Daily Times, Volume VIII, Issue 2271, 15 April 1886, Page 2

WAIRARAPA EAST COUNTY.

The following is the discussion that took place at the Council meeting on Tuesday on the wages question : The Chairman, in pursuance to notice moved, "That as one uniform rate of wages per day will not deal justly' and fairly with the surface men employed by the Council, inasmuch as some men aro housed free while others pay rent, the portion of the resolution passed by the Council at its last meeting reducing the wages from 7s to 6s a day be rescinded." He said: "My reasons for bringing this resolution forward is that I acted somewhat hastily in passing the resolution at the last meeting, and did not givo the matter due consideration. 1 think we did not consider the position of the men sufficiently (hear!' hear,) I have taken some trouble to get information as to the position of each of the men in the employ of the Council, and find they are not being paid at a uniform rate. Many of the men have to travel a long distance, and, therefore, nearly, all have to keep horses, They have to pay for their own tools, and for keeping the same in order. Some of the men are found in lodgings whilst others ifavo to pay from 5s to 9s a week rental. The expense of each man is—s2 weeks board at 10s, £36; Clothes £10; Rent £l3; Outfit of tools, and cooking utensils, £24 4s; Firewood, £5. Total £7B ss. So that the first year a man goes to work for the Council he has to pay a total of £7B ss, I really cannot see how a married man is going to live. After the first year the outlay is not so great. The men have been receiving at 7s a day, £lO4 a year they being paid for wet and dry weather, and at this point I should like to refer to an anonymous letter which has appeared in the papers, which stated that the men only went out when the coach was passing. I characterise that aB being utterly false. Cr Dagg: It is a pity the Council when considering the wages question at the last meeting had not the information now produced before them. Cr Maokay: That is what I say, wo were' too hasty. I have a letter from one man at Whakataki asking that if the Council cannot continue to pay more than six shillings a week wages, that lie be allowed one shilling a day for his horse, as it was absolutely necessary for him to keep one. Cr McOardle; I havo groat pleasure in seconding the motion. I tabled a notice of motion myself that the resolution passed at the last meeting of the Council be rescinded, and this motion, if carried, will effect it. It is a matter for the Council to ennsiderthe difference in wages. Owing to illness I was not present at the last meeting of the Council. 1 sympathise with the Council in their position, and think tho wages question was hurriedly dealt with at the last meeting. Tlio statement of the Chairman shows that the wages tho men had beon receiving was not an immense amount. When dull times come working men suffer, and when times revive again l they are merely restored to their former position.. This is not tho case with employers of labor, who, although prostrated by dull times, as soon as a revival sets in are soon re-

couped for their losses. 1 heard only the other day of one man—Boyden-em-ployed by the Council who, as soon as it was known the Council had reduced men's wages, was offered and accepted a billot in fcho gov ernmont employ at 8s a day. This shows we shall lose our good men, who will be replaced by men whose quality will only equal the reduced wages given. Es far as the men employed on the Fortymile Bush road are concerned. I can only say that I having passed thorn at all hours,.always found them at their pust. I think the Council will agree that it will be a very unwise step to carry out the resolution passed at the last meeting, I think the position of the Council is not so bad as to require the reduction to be made. One hundred thousand acres has been settled in the Forty-Mile Bush, and this will add considerably to the increase of the revenue of the East County without any corresponding outlay. 1 have great pleasure in supporting the motion of the Chairman's, and trust the Council will support heartily the resumption of the payment of seven shillings a day. Times are dull to settlors just now but brighter times will come, and they will then be recouped proportionately, whereas the workmen will only by the return of better times be reinstated into their former position.

Cr Hawkins: I think there will be some difficulty in dealing with this question in the abstract. 1 don't know where it may lead us. We have been giving one raie of wages. Does this mean that tor years we havß been doing an injustice? T was not present at the last meeting of the Council, but 1 took it for grauted that councillors would have sifted oach'others views, and acted on mature consideration. We ave told now that thoy acted entirely in the dark, and we aro asked to consider everything they did then as wrong, and forget it as a thing they had no right to do. If that is the expression of the opinion of the Council, as an absent member 1 must accept it and say they did the thing hurriedly. When you come to make a differential rate of wages you will find great difficulty. Will you take into consideration whether a man is single or married ? Will you give a single man more because he has no one to cook for him and it costs 15s for board ? (I think 10s quoted by tho Chairman too low), and £G a year for tobacco. Married men— I desire to cultivate them being abenedict myself—l presume will have to be considered on account of wife and children. If once you begin to suit your wages to the position of your men there will be difficulties. You see where tho shoo pinches, you have, married men with houses and married men without. You have differences of rent, one paying ss, another 9s a week. One has land enough to keep a cow, and another has not. I think tho Council are in a difficulty by the inadvertent act of the Committee, whether the nominal rate of wages be 6s or 7s. Cr McCardle refers to the extremely happy state of the runholder, in bad times going but little short, and returning to champagne with prosperity. I can only say I have found that men with steady wages without a chance of losing their billet have a finer time than the settler who is in hard times often brought face to face with real difficulty and anxiety. The position of the two classes have not been put rightly orfairly. Np one knowß their troubles except themselves, and it was not right, and it was not true, to depict them as done. I don't know what Cr McCardle was thinking about .when he said the wages of working men were not being reduced. A great friend of Cr McCardln's—Mr Reese—when I said to him the men would rather not work at all than work for low wages, said plenty of good men coujd be found who would work for 153 a week. Thero was absolutely less money to spend ,on labor, and it cannot bo made to extend beyond its own limit, They must reduce the number of men, or the wages, or else borrow money. It is no use trying to persuade men that employers of labor are able if they like .to pay wages, Employers throughout the country are reducing wages and men through not having money. Men are coming from north and south, saying they are leaving so-and-so because they were unable to employ them. To shut your eyes and try and make capital out of tho present position of affairs does not alter the fact of things as they now exist. As for the actual position of the Ccuncil, whether they will have less rates or not I cannot say, but do not let it go forth that there ars funds, that they mb k«ep

the same number of men, and pay the same wages. Do not let us hido the real facts.' We musfcdeal with the question and face the present depression. As for the question of the Council's reduction, that is a mere trifle, It is a much bigger question we have to face. The men may be good and it may be desirable to retain thorn. I am considerably in favor of encouraging married men to tako the positions as roadmen, and would like to see houses provided for their accommodation. Wo must remember these men are employed wet or dry, and we must considorthat, in connection with the question. Many of the men who are getting large wages are out of employment a large part of the year, and if we distribute their .earnings over the year we should probably find they are getting no more than the roadmen are. Cr McCardle: I just wish to explain my remarks wore different to the construction put upon them, I said employers of labor were placed in a different position to workmen. 1 have been well acquainted with station management, and have had twenty-four years colonial experience, I have had the management of stations, and can speak from' my own knowledge, and all that 1 can say is that if it is possible for the station-holder to wear through the. hard times, he can well recoup himself when good times come. Cr Meredith said: My views on the subject have been very forcibly stated by Cr Hawkins, I cannot accept the statement, that was made by the Chairman that the Committee had made a mistake in passing the resolution to reduce wages. The' Committee had been inspired by tho most conscientious considerations in dealing with the matter, (Hear, hear.) Not with tho men only, but with the staff all round. They had a duty to perform, not only to their employers, but to tho ratepayers also, and I think they have conscientiously performed that.duty. lam sorry to confirm what Cr Hawkins says in respect to the number of men out of work through inability of employers of labor to give them employment. Whilst my own station is starving for want of labor, 1 have had to tell good men that I could not employ them as there was no part of it on which 1 could maku a return for any outlay. Why should tho roadmen—who are good men, but not better than many others-get more wages than was being paid generally. 1 have heard no argument why we Bhould rescind tho resolution passed at the last meeting. If any man threw up his job, twenty men would come forwaid for his position at a reduced rate of six shillings per day. _ Cr Maunsell; The question to my mind is Why Bhould we go outside of tho law of supply and demand 1 1f they are given the option of 6s or nothing and accept the latter alternative, there are plenty of men quito as worthy to take their place. This must be subject to the law of Bupply and demand. Ave we to sacrifice the interests 1 of the ratepayers and conserve that of the 1 roadmen?

Cr Macquarrie: lam rather surprised to hear the Chairman say the Committee acted hastily. (Chairman: I said it was my owu opinion). I take that explanation, I must differ from that. The matter was not considered hastily. The Committee quite understood what they were doing on the wages question, and lam now quite of the 6ame opinion that I was on that day, I at once fell in with the view that by reducing the salary of the Engineer it was our duty to reduce the roadmen also. With regard to tools there is no doubt some do have to provide a number ot tools, but it is not so much that question. The question is can we not get m good men at u's, I think wo can, and therefore I would deal with this, in my position as Councillor, in the same way that I would with my own affairs. If I could get men at 6s I would not pay 7s. Why should we deal differently with public money entrusted to us I Cr Dagg: I am sorry we had not the same information before us for our guidance at the last meeting. We folt we had an unpleasant duty to perform, but we felt it was our duty, and we did it, The Chairman; We have heard a great deal about the reduction in wages, but it is only on the floating population. Station owners have not reduced the wageß uf their expert men, and I eay many of these roadmen were trained to their work by Mr King their late engineer. Wo may get men at 6s, but we certainly shall not get so good, There is something in a man knowing the roads. I unhesitatingly say that the reduction in wages is only on the floating population. lam somewhat surprised at Cr Hawkins taking the Council and ine to task—-{Or Hawkins: "I did not take you to task,") I admitted that I was in fault in dealing with this question, and 1 should not bo taken to task by Or Hawkins because ho was not present. He should remember what ho said concerning another Councilwho was absent on a recent occasion, when he said it was'the duty of the Councillor to be present. Some of the men I spoke to admitted that a reduction might be necessary, but objected to a shilling. I want to see the men properly treated, if you have good servants, treat them well. 1 do not say give them 7s a day, but give them enough to live and keep their families on. Or Meredith: I cannot sit down under the strictures passed by the Chairman. Because the question was unpopular ho had changed his mind, and had not the backbone to stick'to it. Let popularity go, I will speak my mind forcibly and freely. Councillors had thought the matter over carefully, and were right, and should stick to their resolution. Chairman: Asfaraa courting popularity I am not aware that I ever did bo, I havo 6imply asked that the Council give equality of payment to the men, I am not Baying anything about a reduction, I do not care a straw about popularity, let tho wages be whatever the Council choose only let it be equalized. Cr McCardle said: lam sorry to see a certain element springing up over this discussion in saying that this was a bid for popularity. I can say that I have received letters since it was known that I had tabled a motion to rescind the resolution of last meeting, telling me that it would be to my interest to leave the question alone. 1 was absent from tho last meeting and might have let it alone. Cr Hawkins Baid: Some strictures have been passed on the Committee, but I now find that it is not theni, but simply the he has acted rashly. I understand you, want to produoe a certain equality in the wages. There is no occasion to start and level up, equalize from the basis of the wages as they stand, and let the resolution remain. Your object as stated can be gained without altering that. The motion was then put and lost on a division. Ayeß; Crs McCardle and Mackay. Noes: Crs Hawkins, Meredith, Hunt, Mrtunsoll and Dagg. The other two notices of motion by tho Chairman were then dealt with, and the result published in our report of the meeting yesterday,