MASTERTON DEBATING SOCIETY.

Wairarapa Daily Times, Volume 4, Issue 1180, 16 September 1882, Page 2

MASTERTON DEBATING SOCIETY.

Thb attendanc»;at theißMi%'i meeting last evening was not very numeroui, Mr Grundy, the President, occupied the chair. The subject for debate was, "That the existing system of . settling lands on deferred payment! is tinsatii* factory, Mr Park, in opening, said his object in submitting the subject to the meeting was to assist members in acquainting them- 1 selves with tho nature of the existing land laws. He therefore hoped that every latitude would be accorded to member* in dealing with the question as there was no question in which there were bo many differences of opinion. He maintained that the present system was unsatisfactory, first because when land was offered on deferred payments it wai put up to auction and ran'up to prices which made it unremunerative to purchasers. The consequence was that a man aftor years of toil had to throw up the fruits of his labor for the benefit of the Government. In the last report of the Crown Lands Commissioner it wai stated that .during the pa«t year a largenutnberof holdings had been forfeited for breach of cotidi< 'twits', In6taltrnnta, too, were in arrear on one-seventh of the whole land on which payments had not been completed.. The difficulty had, however, been in a measure met by periods of grace being granted by Land Boards. Bome|aeleetors had demanded aud obtained a reduction in the price of their land. Every year those men eeem to get stronger and holder in their demands. Under the deferred payment system every p'epjr, instead of going for improvements on'4be land, werifinto the Treasitfy, He objected especially to ofiering bust) lands on deferred payments. A poor man could not' afford to exist during the first two years while his bush was being fell, The Scandinavians, who could live on rabbits and 'potatoes, might do so, but not,the ordinary Englishmen and Scotchmen. ■ Bns!)< land miles away from any track< -or road, too, had been sold, which was altogether inaccessible. He complained that the upset price in the Forty-mile Bush wai excessive ai compared with the rates on the Waimate plains, Hi contended that old settleri when they attempted to form associations to settle land, received the cold shoulder from the Government. This had been the case with an association formed in the Wairaraia. Later the Qovernment abandoned to* point for. which the Waitatapa settler* were contending, but too late to meet the requirements ef the settlers, He referred to American enterprise in founding agricultural colleges as an .example to be copied. Mr McCird|e,in Wply, said he was disappointed in Sr Park. not bringing forward any alterintiti: proposal,., .The! auction but he; agresid'witjj it, .'on the that under the Oiago Provincial /olef arose ./with the 'ballot system, Bocae sectjoui welt worth more ,th'an otsteM, 'tad leaving the 'selection to chance-did not give - eatisiisetion. The for uhdne competition at ■iuitibni wai to put V larger amount of land thin war required,, instead of a smaller. The defectfriunot in the principle fo the Act, bat in the adminlitnti<m of it. They had a different deferred payment system in force now than the ones on which the objections to which Mr Park alluded were based. With respect to the Wainrapa Association, it was not the Government who treated it badly, but the Waste Lands; Board, which .stood in its way by only'offering it 'inferior land. The Government, were moitaniufas to assist it,and emeontempliiediaKolißh. mg.the Waste Lands Boarla»then conpromote their views. The deferred sjitemmeint that a man without means couldtettle 05; bush land, :because absentee proprietors must find employment for, him, h\ the Pahiatba Block, settlad fifteen month ago, there were now nearly a hundred people-working men w ith veiy small capitals j and, so far from I Btarvihg, .they had' been earning good wages, had olearisd .their 'and had more money than when they went there.He approved of optional as a up, land expended' money which tousled the resident settlers. Hi { iaew no better way ;of opeiitog ip county than.the esiilinjf system of .deferred pay. j ments. Under it the whole of the fortyMile' Bqsh would be. settled, Thejand i had been sold at reasoDiible men had done well who had purchased,' Under the- extern ;iT manias- cprnjieltod] to improve,'scd'vonld boV invest in laiti m a mere spoliation. tbi eoabination

of labor acd citpittl was the secret of the Buccetiin thii method of nettling the land. Mr WoodK>ofe,whofollowed, complained of the mimber of selectors who hud forieitedHneir selections. He never remembered Land Act being passeditithecolony. The pMssntl»wi were breaking men's hestts. He objeoted to the stringent conditions of the de* ferred -payment system; "The' system was rotten and its administrators were; imbecile. They wanted laws to be' laid down by men who understood them. Mr Payton who followed objected: to Mr Woodroofe calling everything and everybody bad names without suggesting any remedy. Who were the pen - who in Mr Woodroofe's opinion nnderatood laws and were fit to lay then dowa. Was there another besides himself on the list? .

Mr Ripp said it was the duty of every Government to see that their landlaws Were put in »satisfactory-basis. He objected to thd conditions under; which selections were placed. He referred to. the Mauriceville settlement, (Mr W. McOardle, Mauriceville was not settled under the present system). The men there had been working hard for years, and now could not get a'living off their lands. Mauriceville in time it wis said would become a large Bheep run, as its present settlers could not pull through. He preferred a system by which a selector 'could spend the whole of his capital on improvements.

•Mr John Macara did not think New Zealand had reached that stage when it wasripo for the agricultural school suggested by Mr Park. He considered the deferred payment system was a very good school itself, (Hoarl heart). There were inexperienced and lazy men who doubtless come to grief under it, but they themselves were alone to blame for this. If deferred payment selootors dii not do good for themselves, they certainly did good for the country. Mr Hogg snid the deferred payments system was only one phaze of an extremely large question. He did not approve of either the fee simple, the deferred payment, or the auction system. He admitted that a large number of people had been settled on the land through the deferred payment system, stijl he could not.close his eyes,to the penury and ru|n brought on. many men through it. A similar fate had befel selectors in other 1 , Australian colonies. Under the*r defective land laws estates were becoming larger and larger, and the real settlers were falling into the hands of Philistines. The peasantry of Scotland were now almost extinot. The same was the case in Ireland, and in England though to a less extent. They might send selectors into the Forty-Mils Bush, but. after a period of years not one of; them would be found there. He opposed the" system beoause It did not check individual aggrandisement. The first principle to be observed in any country was that the land should be the, property of the people. When the fee simple was granted poverty was bred. In a very short time the State would take over the land no matter who suffered, ; It was off tha soil they must make their living, and it' was necessary that it should now pass into their hands.

Mr Ford expreaaed tbo pleasure-which he had listened to the sevoral speakers, | He did not believe in the land system as it had been worked in the past. It had been a delusion and a snare.' He himself brought a land order to Christ* church and found that it was available on Iho lole condition that he was to reside upon the property he selected. H# was therefore compelled to" forfeit that which by rijjhl belonged to him. Ho was afraid that the deferred system was not a good one. He thought the Government should give more encouragement to farm laborers by giving them _so many days work a week, a favor whioh had been shown to Scandinavian settlers. If it was right in one case it should bo right in the other. He did not believe for one second 'bat the land system of Ireland was its curie, Idleness and over-population were the real curies of that couniry. Tho best thing for New Zealand was to offer the land honestly for settlement without snaresand delusions. Mr Kingdon objected to the present ijatem as _ it did not give the working man sufficient encouragement, He admitted that the present law was better thau the former ones. He had been connected with an association whioh had been a splendid snccess. Some of the members were thoroughly ignorant of bush work, but they were remarkable for two things, Ist, thoy had no money, and 2nd, they were total abstainers. Mr Park in reply argued that the Pahiatua Block was an exceptional case, Tbe question was then put, and the Ministerial •, party carried it bv a large majority,