MASTERTON DEBATING SOCIETY.

Wairarapa Daily Times, Volume 3, Issue 827, 23 July 1881, Page 2

MASTERTON DEBATING SOCIETY.

Wednesday's Meeting, it is desirable for the .'. Colony alwayt to rernain an integral par. [;.. parHjtkißritiii.Mpind.il.l a'Mr Grusdy, in. opening the debate on. 'the.affirmative side, divided his remarks into' three "Heads—past, .present,.. : , and future.'" He stowed"' how,' wlnle ,'tlie colony was young*' it received from the •mother country that protection, which enabled it,to deyelope itsresourcesfree from the attacks of envious nations. .Then they- had' the • advantage" of the 'grand constitution of • the" British Government! whicu ; had taken centuries to build up, but',which we had.at;once. There had; had also been yery great assistance given by the Home country in bearing the brunt of native troubles while her cold-' iries were tod yqungto protect themselves. Our trade, also, was nourished and developed by the mother country, and it had become a saying that trade, always fdllowed'tbo flag; .'■ Although; it could not b'Br.clenied'' that 'the United States had progressed since;her.severance from the Empire, ; yet-we did far more trade in proportion to the population'than they did. The colony, also, was virtually independent,, Measures deemed necessary by our own representatives almost invariably' received the. assent of the' Home Government, and he instanced the Maori Prisoners'' Bill, and Deceased' Wife's Sister Bill," and the Chinese Bill, all of which, though-contrary to the constitution at home, wero allowed to become law withojut.--cavil. There were ; very warm feelings existing"; between" the mother country aud her, colonies just now, .through the. ; latitude which,was allowed in governing ourselves, and as we had been treated in the past and present, so we could always rely upon being dealt with in the future. If the'.cqlony. Was not to remain an integral-part of the Empire, what was it to become—a part of another < empire )or au independent state ? ' They could at once negative the former. With ■ regard to the latter, he submitted that the colohy .was not in a position to beebmd independent,'ai'-it was tod weak,- and would be for many yearj to'come,..to stand upon its ownjegs... If a great power like Eussia thought proper' to attack us, we should, ; in'spite of our, gallant defenders, be "wiped out"'at; nee. We' : Should be constantly liable to' interference from stronger .powers of independence. "The protection afforded by. the mother country now elfectaally pre-,' vented this, Another question with regard to independence was how it would work-in the colony itself? -Almost the first impression a' nWcoiner formed was that a great amount of petty'jealousy existed between one portion ,of -flip colony and another. If we were independent, we would soon probabjy see strjfethrough, perhaps, political feeling. If such occurred now, it would be at once quelled by the Home authorities. He alluded to the civil war between North and South America, and submitted it was just possible some such thing might occur in New Zealand- He alluded, to the small neighboring states of Peru, Bolivia, Chile, and Brazil, which were constantly the scene of bloodshed through having no recognised head sufficiently "powerful to insure peace within and freedom from aggression from without. Instead of severing our connection with the mother country, .we should strengthen the bonds between us, and this brought him to a subject which had been recently agitating mens' minds. It strikes all that there' is some little thing-wrong between.England and her elder colonies. Suppose war wag' declared by England on some other nation. "If shelostNew Zealand would, suffer. : This being ; =;the case, it was but just that New Zealand should have some'voice in the-declara-tion, also in the settlement when tlie-war. was over." His idea was" that an Inv penal Parliament should be established;' composed of representatives from eachportion of the Empire, who should settle' all questions of Imperial policy; ' He instanced .the Congress -system in theUnited States, and also the principalities .of the .German Empire,~in support-bf this theory. Some step was also necessary for'the.federation of the colonies, is had been done' in Canada'and other portions of the Empire. How grand a thought. it would be to children ot the Anglo Saxon, race to unite the whole Empire into one grand and/nughty ; cpi£ fedj3rafion! Such ftnadea'! ; w.as'pei;tainly, worth' "considering. ' He concludod by submittjng'.ftoh'g had rpade cjujija goodcase in the affirmative, &n.d •seat amid applause.'" '" Mr E. Brown, for the negative, -apV proached'the subject with' great diffidence., ;He had not had time to read up the subjeot, and, like Sir George Grey, he .'had conje with a blank Bheet of paper, The sheet was now full, howover,—not, with his own arguments, of Mr'Grundy.; He then •endeavored, to refute them'. ,; With regard to, th.e assistance given; Jo New Zealand \o}§ past, that might have orougfjt upon her more" injury'tW bjiiefjt'i a)j| wjth regard totho constitute} tjjev; lveje so farfronji. that, hei;e. they passed a law one session, amended, it the next, and then expunged it altogether. They could have borrowed the cpnstjtution" without being a'depehdenpy of England.' Witli regard to' assistance in native troubles,' tjje Home Government had pof id_one much to liejp us out of |h(jm, iljut we. oursejvi}6 had : '6|t(led n}uo|| qpfojr whjn the! %^ r ..froops I were witn&awjj'j'_'Thj" .'only assisted because-iiljey' j were thus enabled to reap all the advanj'tages' (in■ ibterest) : ofther'labor'.of-the 1 settlers. With'regard to trade.'he subraitted that England made more out of that than New Zealand'^did/' 1 With' regard'; to; freedom in gasping; measures we desiredj they had to first go co,Eng-.

landfogetKoyalaßSpnttothem^ ; Acobr- . ding to ourown'lawnbwi we coiildmany-' ,'"■•■ adeceasedwife's'Bister, and' he'tlid' not"" : ' Bee why,'we should have to wait; tDltwe- •' gotoonsentfrom Hornetodo ,; so< iiWitti ii ■- 1 ' regard to loans, fingkndhadbeenvyery ; :'' ; -: r kind in.the past, and heiopedthey. would '•'•• be as obliging in the. fntare, and ohafge: '■ a small interest and. never ask for the. principal. With regard to federation, he,' thought it would be better to unite with •ourrnejghboM,tand I Jiot:goU6:EnglanilP' , ".v. "all. Thft.qnly reßßQn. : Ru|Bia, orjanyqffier'■ great pow r wowd'"attaok'uslwould be "'.'.'.' Efigland. There ; had been a question • / raised at Homejwjth.regardjtp wjering ... / from the eolomesV andJhe opin'iori'had been expressed .that, union',was,-more.itor)l the the'j..< •■ colonies. Witlii Yegard-to-the troubles-■'. that'inighti'a'rise'?throughtindependgnce, *W. -he-ridioule'd the jdea; of *an < iexpeiMtion being sent,:,out, frbm*Aucß'an ( 4 ; .:against. Wellington! 'or' from;-the"la&r .place),,,agaWCUMitcliuftn? *[■ cans'hafl their'oiyil-^r'th r e?e'waa^ffgt«at r;i: "- 1 ' .. and Vvthe case was altogether different. _' local jealously in : race for prosperity, a?d. hbalthy rivalry!* of !C„ljili|,?and: its;;ne.e:tlifor .alxnonitjir;, they might also refer • ••" gard to its dfepuV p^'i'fa^J''' o ™ ~-: T he'timoi ;:a llowed-to- te'^ije^rV 7 .. laving now "'"■ his-Beat, jnppm- - • , plete. '-.■•' r "" w '""''..^,'y.-'Z :■'■■}■ ''•-•:<\i~ "'. Mr Park Bupporte4.'tlie ; .aflfimative.. - i He believed Nefr:^ealand J 'Bapiild rebainan integral part of England Wl the,latter ; .,. •b9eamß'anin^g^ , He plluded to Hlie state- of .•;Fjji' before •■ England annexed.it. y Wh «gari;%; U} trade, it followed and|the easy .working idt J tlie'■ laws was.'•.•. due to the temperament andinfelligenOe'f','< ~: of the people. Wo had paid fortha help " ■ England aadniforde'd*iis'-in':tlie.'matter of"troops, which;flatter*had''not:been- ~,, under our command,.' J' place wher.6 t; .the..p j eople.j^ere,-being; . murdered... .by':.the natives^; p >ands'-t%.'■;.;, troops-iiiObuldi not.CDaoiioU;tolltlieir i.'j'.i assistance (though only ashort distance ,; off} becausevtbey';had'.not^.riaceiyed''in- instructions. " : The':Eome...Gflyerament bad; > doneius good service by guaranteeing.our... ; .... loans i-'and with iegard-to-the-clmtice of "•'. "• 'civil |war in 'New r Zeala'rid : if. independent,".'•'"" - ;he.!alluded : to,■ thef-fact',-that there-'was;av•'i •*• very'great chance of.ciyilstrjfe.in Ota^o ; .••■': some! time ago/ thrdugnp'ohtical feeling. He gave a general -support'.'to .Mr '• Grundy, and, time being.up, resumed his seat J '"',.'"-,■.'•¥ ->, • MrjWoodroofe spok^ He alluded to the of;. England in the earlyjiays; ott; Aiisltralia;' '■ and the state of Ireland\at'the present •,.,-. time. |He held that we. could-not be , ! - properly governed by 'a" Parliament;^' 16,000 miles away.' • Withvre'gard'.tq the.,. v help of the Home' Government in New ; - Zealand's early days, they .cruelly deser- ;; ted us in our hour of need,, and left .'Us td,'£.'.!.'* deal with the natives alone.:' They exe'F"""' cised a very unwise control), when they ■ permitted us to borrow so much' money, and he held that, they legislated tain class. Mr Woodroofei made; a/very':- 1 .-. .;.<.:' interesting' epeech,' ■•■ recalling various .'.■: i: 'episodes in early colonial'life to 1 show the ••■';" incompetence .of the Hoine J Government- ; ■■• with reference-to governing'.other.counv. trie's; knd concluded by again expressing the opinion that England- could not '[ govern us at such 'a distance,' Messrs Hall ond James' Brown briefly,..-. ( . .supported the negative side-the' Chair' 'V. man saying a few words in favor of the: ■'i'-'-affirmative, ■ ..:.-, ■ :; ; ;, .; ./ Mr Grundy, in reply, demolished Mr v R. Brown'B arguments, and .upset several •; of Mr Woodroofe's, buto» the auestion,boingput the ayes only scored five, the'' ■noes winning with six, ■'" ■"- -,,'.; : - ■ ■:: : .CLIPPINGSFEOM HANSABDuV :■■.;..■';-rf^" ! r .. , v nkiqhbourlt; :: . Is it a fact that Auckland,' Canterbury, - and Otago believe'tbat : there ia no -good .thing can. come i oii^of.ttiiß^azareth'bf^ i ■Wellington ?,i do : -nbt'b'eheye. that 1 would get anybody nbrtH'or south for a ■'*■*' . ' A W-OKM WILL T^ES, ..•..(Fromi the ne,wspapers-rfrom news,-••...,, papers that we'see filled" ■' '■ with/ •false telegrams, and' false n^ws,, and jo what <)n jn'tl|is'' ; 'HojJßj • ' and/.a? iq fl|e act|ons,jnp\ of yarjous. 'nje'mpers in }t : V.'ls > th"aji''j' source fromwi)i'cj) : (l|e BeppleßUtsjilfp^ 1 ''. to learn wl)af (1)8 qpiqtis ftn.4 ao|jqn§ of- ' their l-epesenfatiyes. .really are ?-T7r% . Moss,'.'■ ; ■ '■' i •.•..'„'i'. ''''!•. '' " ' It is a; very easy thing for raenjbera ,of this House to get upand propose that a hundred ] thousand pounds, should'be struck off the estircates. ' We know how much this subject lias been talked about in the House before) but was'tliere ever a Government who sat on those benches before who could come down to the ,~" House and say they had actually done it? ~,-, It is, sir, the: difference between talking ' and acting,;,between promises and perform ■ J mances, between saying.that it done and;showing that it is done.', The*' part of this'jHouse waßeasy; the part that '.- has ; been performed by the Government •:'. : . d^fiicult.—Mr Saunders.

• :):\ • VAIUATIONB. .vLsiy'-tpe local bodies will not. agree, and fhould' uot agroa, to have what' may te.'callei a centralists valuation, The Honqrablejientreman arid'mYclerks in the \ • y Gbyerhiiient fiuildings in Wellington canhotfevjenifth'ey had a thousand times ~ • •'.' the; wisdom they are now possessed of, select the jjerspus. throughout .the colony:-'. .... who would make the best valuers. Local ■.■;• ■" •' knowledge is -infinitely superior!to cen- 1 • ' ,'tralisttiojkhowledge in that matter.-rrM." Ballanoe, j ■■'■'..'• 'V