THE WESTLAND ESTIMATES.

West Coast Times, Issue 363, 21 November 1866, Page 1 (Supplement)

THE WESTLAND ESTIMATES.

PROVINCIAL' COUNCIL. Wednesday, November 14. The following report of an important debate we extract from the " Press." We understand that the amendment proposed by Mr Montgomery was submitted to the Council without any concert with the Westland members, and that they by agreement abstained from taking any part in the discussion. The Provincial Secretary moved that this House resolve itself into Committee Supply to consider the estimates of the ordinary revenue and expenditure. Mr Montgomery rose to ask the lion, the Provincial Secretary to postpone the motion. He could answer the hon. gentleman that he was not actuated in the part he was taking in the matter by any hostile feeling, and he thought the hon. member would give him credit for doing what he considered his duty. He thought that the House ought not to go into Committee of Supply on a part of the estimates which had only reference to the eastern parts of the province, while the estimates of the western part of the province, which bore a very important position, and which might affect the financial condition of the whole province, were not before the House. He thought it was inexpedient to go into Committee of Supply to vote sums <.f money which hon. members might nr>t vote if they knew the exact position v the western part of the province. There had been a very large overexpenditure incurred in Westland; he had not got the figures before him, but he understood it to amount to somewhere about LIOO,OOO. The accounts of the two parts of the province were kej& distinct, though there Avas no separation of the tAvo in the provincial chest. If, therefore, the resources of the Avest were inadequate to meet its engagements, the eastern portion of the province would be under the necessity of making up the deficit to the detriment of its own interests. It was therefore necessary that the estimates of the revenue and expenditure of the Avestern part of the province should be laid before the House before being asked to vote any sums of money, as they could not be certain of the amount of money at their command until that Avas done. If it be true that there Avas the large sum he had mentioned owing from Westland to the ProAancial Treasury, , he thought the House had a right to know how that money Avas to be paid, and -when it was to be paid ; or, failing that, whether it Avould be paid at all. If hon. members in granting supplies should have an idea that a large sum would be received from the sale of land or othenvise on the West Coast, without the money being forthcoming, it would be encouraging an unwise expenditure. The House would want the whole financial policy of the West Coast before considering the estimates, , because in his Honor's address to the Council it was there stated distinctly , that he would ask large grants of money ' for the purpose of opening up and de- . veloping that part of the country ; and moreover, the GoA-ernment, in reply to a question, stated that they Avould be , willing to guarantee a certain amount of interest on money iiiA'ested for this purpose. If that policy Avas to be carried out the ProA'incial Government became guarantee for the interest on those works, then the House ought to be able to know its true position, and until the statistics setting forth this, and drawn up with great care, Avere in the hands of members, they could not be in this position. He did not intend taking up the time of the House by speaking on the estimates noAv before the House, but wished simply to make a few remarks. From the statement laid before them honorable members would notice that in the Ordinary Revenue Account there Avas already'a deficiency of nearly Ll 3,000 ; which with a further amount of L9OOO, made the total deficiency L 22,000. On the Land and Work 3 General Account there Avould be a deficit of upwards of L 15,000, besides a total of L 134.000 of unauthorised expenditure. It Avas absolutely necessary, in order to know the true position of the province, that hon. members should have the AA r hole of the estimates laid on the table. With regard to the reply which he anticipated the Government would make, that the postponement of the estimates for a few days Avould cause a loss of time, In would remark that the sum of L 134,000 of unauthorised expenditure must come before the Council, and he did not think that the House Avould pass over the item without going into the question to ascertain if any faults existed, or at any rate to give an expression of opinion as to whether this expenditure was rightly incurred or not. He thought the consideration of this would occupy the time during Avhich the estimates Avere being prepared. He hoped the Government Avould take into consideration the position of the House, and not press upon them items of expenditure which they might never haA'e banctioned had they known the exact financial position of the province. He Aushed to ascertain from the Government whether they intended selling land at an early period in Westland in order to recoup the expenditure incurred by the East on behalf of the West Coast. " He wished also 'to ascertain Avhat public works the Government intended to carry out in Westland, and what guarantee they proposed giving to cover the interest and the cost of any works carried out there. If the hon. the Provincial Secretary should agree to postpone the question, he should be happy ■ tejprithdraw his amendment ; but other■wise^a^ there was ' a very important

principle involved in the question, he should be obliged to press his amendment. The hon, member concluded by moving — " That in the opinion of this Council it is inexpedient to go into Committee of Supply until the estimates of receipts and expenditure of the West Canterbury Goldfields are laid on the table." Mr Ormsby seconded the motion. The Provincial Secretary explained that he had followed the custom of the Government in the last session in bringing down the estimates of the East Coast prior to bringing down those of the West Coast. He thought that there were obvious reasons why the two statements should be kept distinct. [" Hear, hear," from Mr Wilson.] Since bringing the estimates forward there had been, he thought, a great deal of time for their consideration, but he should simply ask the Council to vote certain sums of money which were absolutely necessary for the carrying on of the Government on the east side, and which could not be affected by anything he should make in the financial statement with regard to the West Coast. There were certain items which were absolutely necessary, and no statement which he was likely to make Avith regard to the position of affairs on the West Coast could do away with those expenses. He should simply propose those items having reference to the departmental expenses, without going into matters that were likely to provoke discussion, and which would depend very much on what he had to say with regard to the West Coast estimates. It had been said that there had been a loss of time in bringing forward the estimates, and he had already explained how it had occurred. The Government had no wish whatever to press those estimates on hon. members until they had the West Coast estimates before them, and the Government would, as a matter of course, comply with the request of the House. (Hear, hear.) He should, however, be disposed to press his motion. Mr J. S # . Williams hoped that the House would accede to the motion of the hon. the Provincial Secretary, on the understanding however that it should not be debarred on a future occasion from discussing the principle of the estimates. He believed technically that they were then debarred from discussing the details of the estimates — (" hear, hear," from Mr Stewart) — but he trusted that the Government would not take advantage of this technicality, and so burke the debate on the general principle of the estimates. He agreed that it was highly desirable to have the whole of the estimates before them before proceeding to discuss the general principles, which they would be otherwise doing entirely in the dark. Mr Beswick did not think it abso» lutely necessary that any of the estimates should be passed that evening, ■ but that they might be postponed for a few days. With regard to the question as to when the debate on the general principle of the estimates should take place, it was his intention to have asked the hon. speaker to make a rule which should be their guide for the future. He though that the discussion should take place on the first motion to go into Committee of Supply after the Minister had made his financial statement. He thought that the hon. the Provincial Secretary would allow that it would be undesirable to go into ' the estimates that evening, uutil the West Coast estimates were before them, for they must consider them as a whole, and be guided accordingly. He thought it would be much better if the hon. gentleman would at once give way instead of pressing his motion. ■ Mr Thomson would suggest to the hon. the Provincial Secretary that his objection to the amendment would be met by taking interest for the amount required for the current expenses. When the West Coast estimates came before them he believed it would be found that the debt due to the east part of the province by the West Coast had been very much overstated. Mr Maude thought that there was some considerable difficulty about the question, because although he must say he sympathised with the amendment of his hon. colleague, inasmuch as the principle was one which should govern the proceedings of the House, yet if carried it would place on record a kind of censure on the Government. (Cries of •• No, no," and " Yes'") He repeated there was no doubt of it (Renewed cries of "No, no.") Under those circumstances he should feel sorry to vote for it. He thought it would be better for the Government to defer the estimates. Mr W. Williams did not see that the passing of the amendment would imply a censiu'e on the Government. He considered if they voted money before they knew what the West Coast estimates were to be, they voted under great expectations of their share of the Customs duties and of the sale of the debentures and the public lands. There was a much more serious question involved ; for, on the face of the estimates as they stood, they would see that it was actually contemplated to go on with the expenditure, which would leave the province in debt. This of itself ought | to induce the House to delay until the West Coast estimates were brought down. He hoped the Government would not divide the House on the amendment. Mr Buckley objected to a postponement of the estimates, on the ground that the Council had delayed sufficiently long already, and he did not see that the consideration of the departmental expenses would be affected by the West Coast estimates. The Provincial Secretary said that if the House agreed to adjourn the consi-

deration of the subject, he thought he might promise on Tuesday next to have the whole of the estimates laid on the table. Under the circumstances, if the hon. member would withdraw his amendment, he should have no objection to postpone his motion until Tuesday next. The motion and the amendment were then, with the leave of the House, withdrawn. Leave was also granted to postpone consideration of the estimates for Land and Works department.