HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume XXV, Issue 10229, 23 June 1883, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House met at 2.30 p.m. Mr Montgomery asked Major Atkinson to bring on Supply at onoe, as he intended to move a vote ef censure on the Government in connection with the imprest obtained on the last day of the financial period. Major Atkinson said that he had.intended to make an explanation on the subject, but aB Mr Montgomery was in such a hurry he would wait and hear what he had to say. He moved the postponement of all business down to Supply. At Mr Montgomery's request the Auditor- General's memorandum on the subject of the imprest was read by the Clerk, as follows ; — The Hon. the Colonial Treasurer ; I am unable to sign this requisition without pointing out that it involves a grave evasion of the law. It is not an infraction of the law such that I should be justified in declining to issue the money, but it evades the clear intention of the Act. The ninth section of " The Public Revenues Act, 1882," provides for the expenditure tor two months after the end of the financial year, authorising the Colonial Treasurer " to issue and pay moneys during such two months, but no longer " subjeot to certain conditions. The effect of the present requisition, No. 88, U to draw out on the 31st May, the last day on which I can consistently with the law issue any money uutil'Parliament meets, the sum of .£192,000 from the public account and place it as an imprest in the hands of the Paymaster-General, so as to carry on the expenditure until the meeting of Parliament. If such a step oan bo taken in an emergency arising from the Parliament not being oalled together within the time for which supplies are pro* vided, I cannot but point out that the same oourse might be adopted by the Government at any time and for any purpose, and the whole expenditure of public moneys be changed from that of direct payment to one of imprest payment, and from ono of pro-audit to the old system of audit after payment, a system which it was the whole object of tho Revenues Act to abolish. It is truo the law puts no ppeeiSo limit to the issue of imprests, but they have hitherto been troateil a a c-iusplienal, and U3ed where direct payment coultt not bo made without inuonvcnirncQ to the sai-vice, but On- Au-lit Office hw always f, ; lt if its diity In rymonstr.it.i asf.unst I

issue of moneys on imprest for payments which have been made directly from the Treasury. I therefore feel that the issue of this money, which I have no power to refuse, dicloses a mode in which the clear intention of Parliament is being and may be at any time evaded, and moneys expended in a manner which the Audit Office must have declined to sanction had the claim been presented, to it before the expenditure took place. As the point is one seiiously affecting the manner in which the duties of the Controller and Auditor-Gen-ral are to be fulfilled, I havo the honour respectfully to request. that this memorandum, together with tbe requisition to which it. relates, may be read before Parliament as soon as it meets. James .Edward FitzGerald, Controller and Auditor-General. May, 31st, 1883. P.S.- 1 should also point out that when the Paymaster submits this voucher for credit, and it appears - by the receipts that payments^ havo been madebefore the meeting of Parliament,' .it may be the duty of the Audit Office to refuse to recognise such payments or to relieve the Paymaster-General without the express sanction of Parliament, on the ground that tha law expressly, forbids not only the issue but also tbe payment of moneys after the 31st May. J. E. FitzGerald. — Tho papers > shall be laid before Parliament as' requested. Thomas' Dick (for , the Colonial Treasurer); 1 ■ 31st May, 1883.— Mr - Montgomery said that he was only doing. his duty in endeavouring to maiutain the' control of Parliament over tlio' public purse bylbringiug tbe iimlteriuimediately ■■< before the House. He was actuated more by patriotic than hostile motives in this. — -In-speaking-a-few-nights-ago-he had pointed out that the expendi-' ture since the : 31st -of 'May 1883 1 , 'waTs illegal. It had been mat by on the last day withdrawing; £ 190,000 ras- an imr. pfest from ,the control of the Controller. . The terms of condemnation used by the Controller were sufficiently severe. It was; no wonder, as he was a Parliamentary not a .Government officer i /The •Treasurer had been asked io lay the . memorandum i; before -Parliament,', and, Ministers had promised -to-, do this, yet they had kept the paper back from the .knowledge of . -the .-' House" until,' after the' Reply to the Address had been passed. Had this ■' not been done it would have been the duty of the Opposition tc> have' 'moved an ■ amendment on the Reply. It was now their duty to ask^the House to express opinion at once regarding J the ti-an3ao ; -tion. If the House passed .over. such, conduct on'' the part of the Government' without notiee, the control of tbb public purse would' have passed from'the hands of the House. He hoped tbe matter would not be treated' in a party Whether the motion he "was 'about' to propose was.. carried or not, it would place on record' that- 'be bad"'dohe''his' duty in protesting against an illegal and improper act on the Treasurer's part. If the motion did nofcipass.F the (House, the country could then judge between the Treasurer and^ those . who/.triedLLtQrd.o' their; duty in guardiug.the public purser He bovedj That' this- House disapproves of the'conduct of the Ministry inretaiu-: ing an' imprest for' £192,150 'by "a. grave evasion of the law," and contrary to the clear intention of Parliament, and considers that the Treasurer' is -de serving of censure for not laying the memorandum of the > Controller and Auditor-General before Parliament as soon as it met, as requested by that officer, and promised by the Hon. T. Dick for the Colonial Treasurer. Major Itkinson said that Mr Montgomery ended by entreating members not to take a party view of the matter. The ordinary courtesy of asking him to explain his conduct had not even been extended to him — a pretty good proot that he (Mr Montgomery) was acting entirely in a party spirit. If not, Mr Montgomery would not have so readily accepted the law of ' the Controller ns condemnatory of the Government. Once before he had, with the concurrence of '.he Controller, in rcg ird to a matter of £150,000, had to devise means of evading the letter of the limit in order to carry out its spirit. He then caine down to Parliament when it met, asked for a committee to investigate the subject, and invited Parliament to piss a Bitl of Indemnity, which it at once 'did. Had he been iu Wellington he would not, as Mr Dick had done, have promised to lay -the paper on the table, but would have told the Controller that, as an officer of the House, it was his duty to report direot to the House, if he had any complaint to make against the Government. H« believed he had brought the paper down it^the proper time, but he had only done so because his colleague had promised'. He. denied that there had been any evasion of the law. The Government had simply exercised a discretion entrusted to them by tbe House. A full I third of the t ordinary public revenue was always spent on imprest without pre-audit. While he kept office be would always claim the right to spend as much imprest as he thought for tbe public good. The House could j udge how he used his discretion. Had he liked he could have got this money without a word being said, but he wished to do it most openly. Such a power as .he exercised must be held by Government, if the public service was to be carried on. The more he saw of the present system of control, the more he was convinced that it was certainly .useless for all practical good. The money was voted, and placed in the hands of the Paymaster-General as Imprester. The claims were sent into the various departments, and the voucher sent to the audit ; then it came back -to the Treasury, when it was sent to the Control Department for approval, and if there was enough to the credit of the vote it was then paid. That : was the ordinary method. With thismoney, and the claims on it, the only difference was that the Controller could not see ea- h item charged to its particular vote. Parliament had not in any way list control over tbe money. If ihe Imprest had been got under Imprest, it would have had to be simp'y charged as unauthorised expenditure. Every halfpenny of it might have been spent before the 31st May, as Parliament had authorised its payment up to that date." If the Controller was to determine whon money was to bo spent on imprest, and when not, it would be impossible to carry on the public service. The House must trust its officers, tbe Ministers. If they had not exercised their discretion as they did, they would have had to oall Parliament together a fortnight earlier, when the buildings were unfit for occupation. He left it to the House to say whether the Government had not exeroised its discretion wisely in the interests of the qountry, and of hon. members. He" considered that Mr Montgomery's haste in bringing this matter on without awaiting his explanation, was most unseemly, and he submitted with the utmost confidence to the judgment of tho House. Mr Holmes strongly condomned the conduct of tho Government as utterly illegal aud unjustifiable. Mr J. E. Brown considered the whole thing a moro quibble, Tho imprest becamo expenditure as noon as it was drawn, and vim; »o within the law. The whole audit syote^. bad bseu r.howu by the Civil Scrvica Commission to bo a pystom of caprice. Great public inceavrnienco wo'.ilfl bnvc ui-hcv> had aat t'i,-. C-jvo-a. ment acted is they did, ifr T?i*h Vi-.-/ j

warmly condemned the conduct of tb Government. The question was noli had the money been properly spent, but had the law been violated. The House must, on the issim raised, censure either the Government or the Controller. • The Treasurer's conduct was disgust- > ingly autocratic »ben confident of sup- V port by a subservient majority. Mr \ Shephard said that this matter was: bufclH' a fresh phase of an old dispute, and wasf a question of form between the Treasurer ' and" the Audit Departments,' the latter ".-(; always trying, to. assert itself as^aboya,!.-, the Miuistry and the House. The Ooa-'j ,"". troller, however, in this case did not; even charge 'any breach of the lawj and. : ' quite enough had been said, he thought, ''-, about the.supposed " effraction."': It was a mare's neat.'' Mr- M.'W: : Green >•••■' thought a clear evasion of the law had X been committed, and of such a character as to demand thS'.oeOsure of the' House.''* ! ,'He'Baid this although 'he had'no desire M to see any change. of 'Ministry, as 'sinee' ;,i '' last session-be -had been in a tr'arisition ';■ state, and was prepared to give. them a X general support in aU ihiugs which fie ; deemed, fright. — The debate was .inter— S1 " rupted'at, 5.30.', [ \ ■■' " :- ' .".'.'%'"' "■ ; ' Ifhe House resumed at 7.30; : ' ,-.-.Vi,.,]i ' Mr Green continued the debate.' He"''!; looked, .on .the Controller's -protest; asy' p impelled - Try "a strong , sense 'of 'djifcyj.',, ' The Treasurer's .-. conduct . wasV utterly "' iH s ei;ql,.. i aud unconstitutional, j'f. He.. had r,,. broken the law.valthough.mot for. any// personal ■ advantage, and punishment.',) should follow. -.He' fqund the -present .'; Government had very little respect', for ■•••! thejlaw. Last session they : ha&connived ', ~at thg, escape of, one officer wlio. had IT ,; committed; embezzlement, and. the bail. •■* ;bbrids have never been ■ 'Major ii Atkinson .Jflatly denied ..both-./-, Statements. .Mr.. Green reiterated his statement,'- but; declined to* give! tbe <•:.. names. Mr'-Brycb : said that ■ the'' ao^s^ eusations were'- not- 1 true< -•'He 'called on Mr' Green to -prove'his 'statemeritsjor''' '" be undef^,fcheimp\itati6'n of halving made"'* a gross charge wbicblie had "no 'foiinda- ' tion 1 for. If,,, it , ,were' ; proved" ;that' 7 the I '"''' Government had' conni veil at 'the, escape A . [ of a criminal Ire,' would' no^remaiu'aii'' hour on these.jbenobes^.but^jMr^Green could.not,proye].3vrlat teas jn'ot .true. .^Mr' 1 ", ' Green said hVwould give the natne.'in. „ private'to the,, Native. Minister, l and .it,'.' , would' then ibe -for ...the. Government ..to-";} prove tbatiiheyVliad not connived afcihe-,;. ' escape. Mr Sbawißaidot'hat.nocdoubt ite jcas^'rAferred rtcvwasthatiof -Rattray^n., .: and Mr GrtSen"h'ad;.brought: it ; i-up l»to'wJ ', show that the'Gov'ernmertt had'yielded ' to the solicitations of its friends.; -NoW)"^ . 'speaking from his' own personal know- '-' ,: ledgej'tbe only two persons whohad j_- !; v ' terested 'themselves in- Rattray's favour '■*'• were Sir George' Whitmore," and '"'Mr ! t :Sheehao, leading members of the Oppo'-' I'*1 '* . Bitionf^RattTay-waB-bauedintbe--usual-t» ; way, and thoso gentlemen became sure- ' ties j for him. He escaped, and' their • , sureties had been estreated and paid, ' r and! an extradition warrant had been isfeupd for Rattray's arrest, wherever 1 found. As to the main question before v the .House, he accepted the challenge of .Mr .Holmes that no lawyer , 'could ' say " 'that the Givernment's action was legal. '"_ Ht^held that, however close to the law* '' tb>y| had acted within it. The -distinc- . lion' drawn betweenussue and payment „ was' untenable legally, and-th's-' issue c . to the. Paymaster was »a payment. Mr '^Stewart contended that -'the clear «s intention of the law had been evaded. 1 '!! andia serious blow struck atthe control'^ of the Housexiver the public purse. 'All"-1 - -"uob attempts should be resented to tbe 1 ' 2 . utmost, and therefore he would vote for Hie resolution. Sir George Grey said"'' the question was" such a serious one that ':■ he thought the Controller-General.'being v ", an officer of the House, should be heard "''; at the bar on the subject. . He 'held that '.",, the payment 'to the .Paymaster wps hit .', trust for that House, and notfpr those,;,., who were ultimately to be paid. • '.The „; great spirit of the British law was that , '- no money could be spent without tbe , authority of Parliament. It was a great -. ■-. national crime-to spend money without this, and all attempts to govern without Parliament should be resisted to tbe utmost. If involuntarily the Ministry .< bad thus violated constitutional law, the' . fact ought to have been stated in the' Governor's speech, and ah Act of. Indemnity asked for. Then the representatives of. the people might have s been willing to condone the offence which' '• had been committed. His deliberate ', opinion was that Mr Montgomery hid'' done his duty by bringing down this ' resolution to condemn what was.a great. -^ breach of ; constitutional law. — Tbie ,' House divided on the motion, That the., Speaker do leave the chair, which was., ' carried, by. 43 to 29, the. motion of; •Mr Montgomery beiug therefore lost.— 7,1 The : following is the division list :-r- • 7 Ayes (43) : Allwrislit Atkinson, J. E..- : .> Brown, Beetham,' Bryce, Conolly, Dick/' W. 0. Buchanan, Dodson, Fergus, Fitz- •' Gerald, Fulton, Green, J. Hamlin,-^' Hurßt, O. J. Johnston, W. W. Johnston, Kelly, Lee, Levestam, Mackenzie, F. W Moll wraith,-' Mitchelson,- \ O'CallagnarJ, Munro, Peacock, Pearson, Petrie, Shaw, Postlethwaite, Bolleston, Shepherd, Stevens, Sutter, Sutton, Swanson, H. Thomson, Trimble, Watt, J. B. Whyte, J.Wilson. Wynn]Williams. Noes (29): Barron, Bathgate, Bracken, Cndman, J. Buohanan, Daniel, Duncnn, Feldwiok', Fish, George, M. W. Green. Grey, Harris,. Holmes, Hursthonse, Hutohir?'; ' son, Ivess, Joyce, Maoandrew, J..;McKenEie, Montgomery, Pyke, Seddon, .Smith, Steward.. Te Wheoro, J. W.^y Thomsou, Tole, W. White.— ln Supply, f in reply to a question from Mr Mont-r r gomery, Mr Johnson said that 'the' de^-'-V' lay in tbe completion of the alterations '' to the building was due to the difficulty of obtaining .workmen. The cbnfraoWT' provided for the completion of the 7 "' work about the middle of April, but it was impossiplo to get. workmen^-- •;:■• In Committee of Supply, .after some discussion, a resolution moved by Major Atkinson was agreed to, authorising; payments during the month of June at ' '' same rate as during the two previo-s: months. — The Houso resumed, and t'vi resolution was reported and agreed *«. — Major Atkinson then stated that the • ovonts of to~day had prevented his making as full an explanation on tbe Government intentions as to business as he had intended. He had intended to make the Financial Statement on Tuesday, but would now make it on Wodnesr day, if private members would give up that evoning, or, if not, on Friday. The Public Works Estimates would be made on Tuesday week. . He would also ask that Thursday night be made a Government day, and if this were done he thought that tho Government business might be got through by the end of ' August. He did not propose to interfere with local Bills on Thursday. Tho principal Government and consolidatory Bills -io be introduced or already " Introduced were — Government Bills : Looal Courts, Bankruptcy, Manied. ' Woman a Property, Bills of Exchange, 1 lshenos, Impounding Tenants Fixtures, Ahonation of Land. Public lYuateo^' de _? Qn-lHkation. Genera* > Assembly, Expenses of Members, LosisPrivileges, Prisons, Land Lav/ Am°n(l--ment, N_tive Land Court Amendment, Govor-auier.t Life Assurance. Lifo 'Ssut wto Policies, Consolidation Bills : rWV al °^- M »^P»l Corporations, TW.tricK ' V f S .^il fe .-^*n