THE MARINE SCANDAL.

Waikato Argus, Volume VII, Issue 460, 13 July 1899, Page 3

THE MARINE SCANDAL.

(BY tkleorapu—press association). Wellington, Tuesday. The Mariue Commission was resumed this morning in the City Council Chambers. Quite a nnnibei of counsel were in attendance besides Mr Hanlon, who is appeiring for the Government. Dr. Findlay represented Captain Allman, Mr Grey for Captain Jones, and Mr Travers f'T Captain Edwin and Mr Allport. Mr Hislop said he intended to appear for Mr Piruni, who had formulated charges against Mr Seddon. Mr Travers asked the Crown to give an assurance that witnesses should be protected against any incriminatory evidence they give, otherwise, as far as his clients were concerned, he would Dot feel justified in allowing them to answer questions that might affect their (rtieial position. Mr Hanlon said he had no power to do this. He opened the case by giving a history of the clnrges and reading the tpeech made in the House by Mr J. Hutcheson, on which the charges were based, in legard to the suggestion alleged to have bien made by Captain Allman that Captain Jones night get a permit to sit for examination as master without, possessing a mate's certificate. The Court asked by what authority such permission could be granted. Mr Hanlon did not suggest any authority, but merely stated the fact. Mr Allman interrupted the Counsel in his statement tint the Minister of Marine handed to him a memo, authorising C*pt. Jones to be examined by the exclamation " It's a lie," and was ordered out of Court. On tendering an apology he was re-admitted. The first witness called was the Premier. He repeated his evidence j;iveu before the Supreme Court, the main poiuts of which were that he knew nothing about Captain Jones' application for master's certificate till after Mr Hutcheson's speech in the House,but that he had been applied to about the service certificate to which he thought Jones was entitled. Mr Seddon read voluminous Departmental correspondence deal ng with the matter. Included iu this correswas a report from Cupt. Allman Mr Hutcheson's charges in the House. In it Capt. Allman mentioned that on one occasion von Schoen urged him to let his (von Schoen'.-) candidates pass n arine exams in preference to a rival teacher's pupils, and made allusion to making it worth his while to paw his (von Snhocn's) men, but Capt. Allman would not li.iten to the suggestion. Capt. Allman proceeded :—" Until von Schoon tried to bribe me I had no idea of his real motives." Capt. Allman added that he had not tendered this email explanation with a view of justifyicg h'm conduct. He knew he did wrong on the impulse of the moment. At an interview in the Cabinet room, Capt. Allman admitted he had given w.iy iu a weak moment, and he (Mr Seddon) bolieved this. Replying to s

communication from the Marine Dcp .rtment asking him to say whether he admitted or deniel the formal charges made against him, Cupt. Allman wrote that he was plainly led to understand that it waa the desire of the rtemier and Mr Hall-Jones that Capt. Jones should get his oertificate. Mr Seddon repeated the assertion that nothing had transpired between witness and Capt. Allman in regard to Jones going up for exam, ami emphatically denied that he had given Capt. Jones to understand "That it would be all right iu regard to his certificate." Mr Seddon said that the action of Mr Allport, in with-holding from the head of the Department f> r some time certaiu information given to him by von Schoen, was reprehensible and required explanation. The point which Mr Seddon wanted cleared up was why Mr Allport had kept that information from the head of his Department so long after he had intimated to von Schoen that he must be released from his promise to treat it as confidential. Mr P rani has formulated charges before the Marine Commission against the Premier, of endeavouring *o procure the issue of a service certificate to Captain Jones and boasting to Jones, knowing that he was not entitled to it, that he had procured him a certificate of competency ; of denying in Parliament that any irregularity had taken place, though he knew Jones had received a certificate in contravention of the law ; of stating he had not written or talked to the Minister of Marine on the subject, though he had urged him by telegram to grant a service certifieato ; that certificates had been improperly issue i to certain persons named in the telegram and the Premier had taken no steps to cancel them. Mr Pira> i also charges Mr Hall Jor.ei with wrongfully using his power to oider Captain Jones to be examined : with allowing him for a long time to retain the certificate after he knew it was improperly ob'aiued, without tHkin fc ' steps to carctl it; with inducing Captain Allman to make an inconect report and causing it to be published and seuding a telegram to the Premier stating that the latter had no conversation with him on tin*, matter, and then by suppressing mention of the Premier's telegram to him from Auckland. The Committee adjourned till tomorrow. Last Night. The Commission resumed this morning. Judge Ward ruled several of Mr Pirani's charges agaiust Mr Seddon and Mr Hall-Jones out of order. Ho eaid no i-ction at law could lie in regard to a conversation which was alleged to have taken place between Mr Seddon and Captain Jones ami the Commission had, therefore, decided to strike out the second of Mr Pirani's charges, which referred to Mr Seddon having boasted to Captain Jones that he had prrcured him a certificate of competency under the Shipping and Seamans Act. The Commission also held that no action at lawcould lie for words spoken in debitc in the House, and obviously no such charge as that which had been made upon statements in the House could be enquired into by a tribunal like the Royal Commission. The Commission, therefore, struck out from Mr Pirani's charges all allegations against the Premier and Mr Hall-Jones, which were founded upon statements made in the debato iu the House. Mr Seddon, under examination by Mr Haulon, continued to read voluminous correspondence relating to the Marino Department affairs. He read a letter, signed by three candidates, complaining of the unfair method of conducting marine examinations, but Captain Allimn's reply to these charges was that they we«e a tissue of lies."- The Departmental replies being satisfactory, the Government took no action in the matter. Mr Seddon wished to say that, neither directly nor indirectly, had he interfered with or influenced the officers of the Marine Department. The responsibility was theirs from beginning to end. In consequence of the question asked in the House, the Government made full enquiry into the regulations governing the adjustment of ships' compares, and as a result it was found that Van Sohcen was practically the only person in Wellington who" was entitled uuder thtsc regulations to adjust compasses. Cross-examined by Mr Fiudlay, who appeared for Captain Allman, Mr Seddon said Vou .* choen had held the positions of Nautical Assessor for the Government and adjuster of compasses, and he had pretty well the run of the Marine Department office. He had two grievances—Oue in regard to Capt. Allman's position, and the other because of the loss of the Nautical Assessor's work in 1897. He did not know how Von Schoen had become acquainted with certain official information. Cioss examined by Mr Gray, who appeared for Capt. Jones, Mr Ssddon said the Department reported against a service certificate being issued to Jones, but witness thought if Jones could prove tie Department wrong and Jones was right, he should get his certificate, witi esses' opinion was that Jones was a much safer man for coastal work than scores of others who hold the class of certificate he was applying for. As to Jones' uffidavit, he did not know when he met him on the Dutchess that he had obtained any certificate. Witness was positive that no reference was made to a service ccrtificite on that trip. Examined by Mr Travers for Captains Allport, and Edwin, he said he had thorough confidence in his office!s. He believed still there was no collusion between Allman and Jones, nor did Allman know what was going ou between Jones and von S.hoeu. It would have saved Allport a great deal of anxiety if he had taken the head of the Department into his cotfidetice. In his affidavit Capt. Jones said Mr Seddon told him on board the Duchess that he had fixed that all right for him, meaning his certificate, but Mr Seddon in cross-examination repeated his denial that any such statement was ever made by him. Several others were present at the time, and it was hardly likely he would discuss departmental matttrs. The full statement attributed to Mr Seddon was : " I fixed that all right for you old man ; I put my foot down, as 1 was determined I would accomplish what you asked me to do in spite of the lot of them." Mr Seddon in cross-examination said be did not then know Jones had obtained a certificate and the whole thing, as far as his recollection served him, was untrue. At tho Marine Commi sion this afternoon, Mr Seddon was cross-examined by Mr Hislop, who appeared in support of Mr Pirani's charges. The witness was examined at some length as to why he had interfered in Capt. Jones' matter, and why he did not leave it solely to bin colleague, the Minister of Mai inc. Mr Seddou's reply was that he had thorough and complete confidence in his colleague, tut as the Prime Minister of the colony he exercised general supervision over all Departments, and there was constitutional precedent for his doing so. _ "Witness was thorough'y conversant with, the whole working of the Marine Department. U hen Mr John Hutcheson made bis charges in the House, witness had no idea be referred to Capt. Jones. He swore positively that he never spoke to Mr Hall Jones about Captain Jones or bis certificate prior to his leaving for England. At the request of Mr Seddon, subpoenas were issued for witnesses, with a view to clearing up what bad actually taken placo on board the steamer Duchess when Mr Seddon was alleged to have made reference to Captain Jones' certificate. The Commission then adjourned.