"STONEWALL" CONTINUES

Wairarapa Age, Volume XXV, Issue 10713, 17 September 1913, Page 5

"STONEWALL" CONTINUES

LEGALITY OF THE ESTIMATES.

IMPORTANT POINT RAISED BY SIR JOSEPH WARD. (By Ttkgraph—Preu Attoewti<m.l WELLINGTON, Last Night. * After luncheon the debate was coittinued at 2.50 p.m. ! Mr Massey stated that the reports were now available for memj bers and he bpged the waste of tint© I would now cease? - j Sir Joseph Ward suggested that [ they should report progress in order | to allow members to peruse the re- ' .ports, and then go back into committee. His. side of the House would not otter any obstruction to again going into committee. ,\ Mr Massey said the report* were laid on thjj- table of the Council at 2.30 that day. He also wanted to > make a statement to the Hous*. Sir Joseph Ward said that it waa the first time in the history of Parliament that such a procedure, as stair ed by the Premier had been carried out.. Reports"should not go before the Legislative Council, but before the. representatives. of- the peoplfe. Mr Massey said that the reports had been circularised, and were available for members. ■; He stated,..tfcat 4 in 1911, when the .Ward Government was on the Treasury benches, reports were notjaid before the Howe until after the] estimates Jbad. been disposed of. He would offer to a»kthe Speaker, to resume thfc chair iii; 1 order that the reports could be laid .'■ before the' House; .iFfce„l^'tbV*t& I ',, surance of the , Opppsjtidn' -that? :'tsjfej.• I reports^'would not ; >.be ; disd^Bsed r ffla _: their presentation./ , > v ~h •' Sir Joseph Ward wajited to know "when they would liave an opportunity - of discussing the reports. He had a ; most important statement 1 to make oik one of the reports, and, could not '■'■-:■ get in opportunity of doin& so tiecause the. chairman would pull bin* up. . It seemed as "if an attempt was being made to gag members. Mr Massey said that; what he had done had been done dozens of times. Sir Joseph Ward said he had received opinions from two of the ablest lawyers in the country, which he desired to place before the House. -'■ They were from Mr C. P. Skerrett and Sir John Findlay. If the Prime Minister, after hearing those" opinions, did not ' progress, he . would be taking; more responsibility on his shoulders than he (Sir > Jolseph) would ca^t^. ; takej£ Sir Joseph estimates, as they were passing them were illegal. The Public Servit», Commission bid fixed salaries and they could not be altered except by ;, Act of Parliament. He then quoted the opinions mentioned, that in the terms of the Public vice Act, vimateS were aW?ju.tely illegal, ft«? cause they had not s£&& \tm]ts& fore Parliament' in -proper' form, aos ; * having been prepared by the Commie- > aioners, at laid dowii in the Act. He contended that; parliament, had no »/ right to fincrease or decrease salaries ; except by Act of Parliament, and as \ the lawiaieeded alterediifg it was not proper to drive on, but to report progress and set matters right. -...; Mr Massey said the .opinion was one /'■ of Very eminent lawyers. He had not takea an opinion biinself> but the Opinions he had heard differed from ;. those Sir Joseph' quoted. Law-i - jyers (Offered arid judges differed. The they were discuSsing!were submitted to Parliament by the ■ re^ .< .• preseritatives of the people for - the • \ ,time> feeing. * The: position was j ly the same how as prior to the com-, '*! dug into operation of the Public Ser-^, vica Act. If those legal gentlein;e% Parliament could! fiaot Reduce the; estimates'as brought down [ ;"; 1 he ,due deference, that they and .quoted . from the (jSmstitutibh* :Ac|&i ,'ero> port of his argument. .H" was not ',..: possible for the Public-Service Com- [■■ : doner to submit the feßtimates Parliament. The estimates could )notr ' be. brought into effect until ihe Appropriation Act came into law. if anything were wrong ft could be.set '■'■ right in that Act. He would take the V opinion of the Solicitor-General on the ! point, but could not agree.to.report; progress'. • '.;'.- ':,.;,"'''."'.. ":"..''>,'..-■ . Mr T. M; WilfoinJ continued, and v stated that if,. the^salariesi. were statutory they could not be altered by,; : the House. Tlie Act set out that the ;' Public Service Commissioner shall set out the estimates and forward them ; , to the Uovernor and'from him they went to thejMindstry and-on to the i House. , ■ Mi\Herdman said the estimates ■; were "on account." ''-The supplementary estimates must be brought down later on. He would point out that the Public Service salaries were paid under the Public Service Act,' just as Judges were paid under£the Ciwil,>List, and now never came 'before the House. ,;-' The House resumed in committee at 7.30 p.m. and a vote taken for Tokanui was passed, and Mr __■ G.i W. Russell moved a reduction of."."";' the vote for the; Resident Medical* , Superintendent at Porirua by £5. He contended that many people who had temporary aberration were herded in the same barrack room with others iiT various stages of insanity, conducing to complete the insanity of the latest comer. There should.be a system of rest Jiu, homes for those who may recover with "care and quiet. Parliament be prepared to provide monej sufficient to put such a humanitarian scheme on a sound financial footing. . Mr L. Mc Isdtt asserted that many people came to this country from abroad, who developed lunacy within twelve months of landing, and the sDomiiu>n had to support them. , The. Minister stated that the Government was providing for newly admitted patients, and further provision was contemplated. Matters wore under way already for additions at Porirua. . ■ Mr Hindmarsh advocated, greater supervision over the warders," so as to further check the possibilities of, eixielty to patients. A few minutes past 11 o'clock Mr iSlgata moved to report progress, urging that numbers had already been sitting too long, and the continued d-scussion uf the estimates under the , '■ present ciicumstances was a weari.ness of the flesh, f ".' " Mr Isitt urged that an adjourn-, ment would afford an opportunity for a compromise and a return to sweet reasonableness: . Mr Hanan contended that on the face of the legal Sir Joseph Ward it was necessary to give the Attorney-General an opportunity to reconsider the constitutional position, (Left Sitting.)