THE ESTIMATES

Wairarapa Age, Volume XXXII, Issue 10710, 14 September 1912, Page 5

THE ESTIMATES

RJitTHER DISCUSSED IN PARUAMENI DEFENCE SCH?::.!E CRITICISED. {By Te^m-na —frem /itsociatton-1 WELLINGTON, Last Night. ►*> The Houso of 'Representatives a vent into Committee on the Estimates this afternoon. On the defence class, .£406,385, Mr. Hindmarsh asked that ;< Financial Adviser be restored to the Defence Board, instead of leaving all in the hands of the Commandant. Ho referred to a statement that he had lieardl from a member of Parliament that General Godley had visited,' Wha 11-<--are:, and, instead of returning by fcoat at a cost of £l, he hired a -?tor ;i"d went to a farmer friend's for a week's shoaling. A bill amounting to £4O wa.s sent in to the Department. He hoped the Minister -could throw some light on the matter.

The Hon. J. Allen said the statewent th-at the scheme would cost £BOO,OOO annually wap quite erroneous. Unless something unfor&een liapnened, the scheme would not cost more thin £400,000. When th© scheme was initiated, there was -a heavy outI;iv for equipment. Dealing with Mr Hindmarsh'e remarks, Mr Allen stn+fi' that the Major-General had never had <1 motor car in the North r-f Auckland, nor had he ever had a shooting there. ' Mr O. W.-'Russell contrasted the salaries .proposed for colonels with t'we received by some of the leading ; n the public service, which ghowed that in most erses tb** colonel® wore receiving as much as £l*o ye.tr. 7v more than the head? of civilian do-p,T-tme,nts'. The TTon. F. M. B. Fisher said they were <• bound by commitments made bv some of the members on the /irwsi side of -the House when they the Treasury benches. The Hon. v J. Allen said that every />«icer who came <rat here did so un<?er an engagement made 9.t .Home., could grt charga of' - a T?-!2ad« at Home at £IOOO a year, and there would not have- half the worry as he has as Commandant. ; A New inlander ('Colonel Davies) was , in charge of a Brigade at Home at £lof)tt annually' paid! by the Home Government. He refuted "Mr Russell's statements that military officers were more than civil heads. 7n two years' time they hoped to rer jplice the Imperial officers with New Zealand-trained officers. Tbe estimate,s were his owti. and he won l 'l stand by them. Tf thev wanted effl.eieucv hH to nav for it. and 1m homy] "the House would 1 sjfe that ihev did. Mr A. M. Myers paid a tribute to fho whole-hoirted and * enthusiastic way in which General Godler-Wd

+l-.-r,ivr. into his work. Hp 7ts ,: ov<s<] ,thnt r t 11 " ' ultimate of Tfliis peheme would not, exceed 000, and they would, have an efficient army as a result. The Hon. J. A. Hanan admitted that the people wanted a defence system; bub they did not want officers running up unjustifiable items of personal expense. •Mr Hindmarsh said New Zealand did not want any of the autocratic idea? associated.;with the military in England. It was the duty of every one to protest against grafting anything of that nature on to the sys- - torn. The social influences of these itmmi was enormous in this country, and anyone who atticked it naturally ?iad to incur a certain amount of odiiim.

Mr Anderson considered the Defence Department was the most important Department in the countr.y Mr L. M. Tsitt said the force should T)e> a Citizens' Defence League, and '©very . lad should know, no matter what his social position might be, that there was no ban to his advance to the highest position. The Minister of Defence compared the salaries paid to officers in. Australia, and: showed that in some instances they exceeded those paid in New Zealand by as much as ££2oo a year. He also quoted the names of officers appointed from comparatively lowly positions to show .. that there was no introduction of,caste,, The only compulsory uniform was khaki for Territorial* and blue for officers. Cocked hats were not in the system. He thought that whore the danger to the scheme might be if there was danger, was that the Minister was an officer and bad. been steeped for many years in military office. He suggested thut the civilian element of the general community would be better assisted if the lion, gentleman were not Minister of Defence. He advised the changing of the portfolios of Minister of Railways and Minister of Defence. Mr Witty moved a~roduction of the rote for the director of accounts by £l, as nil indication that the present oath was wrong, and illegal. Mr Lee, in dealing with salaries, held that if efficient service was required they had to pay for it. Mr; Witty said he did not wish to force his amendment, and if the Minister would give an as-surnnee that ,no more would bo asked to take the

present form of r.ath. he would bo satisfied. He thought that if ,the Minister had not been a military man. lie # would have used "more tact in this mitter. Thehon. .T.Allen said he could not now declare the oath to be illegal, else, what would b»w>me of all those who had taken it. He was iuite prepared to see that i'ie ontli administered in tin? futur. fa one in "ct. Mr Witty then withdrew the amendment. Mr L. M. Tsitt moved a reduction of the vote hy £l. as an indication' that Territorial officer?' should not wear full dress uniforms. Mr Forbes advocated, the elimination of "gold-lace" and "sweppr"' from the forces. The Minister having explained that"he did not favour showv uniform, but did not wisll to interfere with those now in possession of old soldiers. Mr Tsitt withdrew hi? amendment. Mr .T. Pnvno «!i'd he bud a li«t eio-ned. hv fifteen thousand people.in and wound Auckland protesting a?ainst compulsory training. ' V- Pin-no'* statement Wl to i discussion. flurin o, which Mr <■ airl people did not k' ir,, v vjhat tliev were . and Mr M"]fnv/l fl>nllf>ntrorl Mr PnTie to move an amendment; when the country would rep whore tTie House stood on the subject.

to. Mr G. W. Russell, the Minister s'iid- thf increase of Ser-geant-Major's by eighty-two had been made bec.auso they were required *or the efficient workinsr of the iS.c:lip.me. Mr L. W. Tsitt moved the reduction of tlio vote as an indication that anyone may put forwarcF conscientious objection to military training. | Tim Ron. .T. Allen said the Act already mado such provision, but if they gave in to conscientious objection.". how many eon sciences "would bo suddenly developed ? Mr 7 4 ayne declared that "*rrv>ur -vfis "nine to make this n burning question at the uext. general election.

Mr W. A. Ve'toh emphaticnllv protested against the idea that Labour had *0 little regard for the country that it was not prepnrccT to light for it. Mr Tsittfji amendment was lost by 60 rotes t.o -T.