THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Tuapeka Times, Volume VII, Issue 377, 29 July 1874, Page 3

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

"Wellington, July 18. The 1 egislative Council yesterday afternoon was occupid in discussing the Machinery B-11. On clause 11—" I hat m\y person possessing machinery must send notice to Inspector"— a division took plies : Ayes, 9 ; Noes, 9. The Chairman gave h : 8 casting vote with the ayes, and tho elauso was retained. The Westlaml Loaa Act ana Canterbury Domains /» ct were read a first timo. In the House of Representative^ Fourteen days' Kave was granted to Mr Webster. Mr Steward asked the Minister for Public Works whrn he intended to o\]\ for tenders for laying the permauent way of the Oamaru and Waitaki portion of the Waitaki and Moeraki Railway ; also when it was likely that the sections from Oamaru to Otcpopo, and from Otepopo to Moeraki, would bs ready for the rails ?— Mr Richardson said, regarding the first part, that there was great difficulty in getting sleepers, and until they saw their way clear the Governmont could not giro a positive answer. The contract did uot include laying . ermment way. Re girding the second part, the contract included p'ate-layiog, and the time for completion was on February 18 nexfc year. On the motion for going into committee on the Commissioner of Cnst"m«' excise proposals, considerable discussion ensued, many members being ahxious that the matter should be referred to a select committee.

The House went into Committee of Ways and Means to consider ibe proposal 3 'of bhe Commissioner of Customs regarding the duty on Colonial-distilled spirits. — Mr Reynolds explained that the Government had warned persons in Dunedin who had applied, notifying their intention to increase their premises, that that would not avail them if the Government thought it advisable to alter the duty. He h;id a return prepared showing the barley grown and spirits ili-tilled in the Colony sii cc the commencement of distil.'cries after the Act of ISiiS, and the result showed that the revenue had lost LSO 606 For every bushel of grain grown in the Colony and- consumed .. in its distilleries, the Government had paid a bonus of 11s lljd, and the loss in 1 differential duty had been nearly 2s per bushel. B sides, growing of grain, contrary to expectations, had not been stimulated, but the reverse, nor had the employment" of labor been much. The Auckland Distillery employed only five permanent hands, though there were casuals, and the Duuedin Distillery employed twenty-three. Of the grain used, a large proportion had beea imported, many brewers and the distillers having to go to California for birley." The Government hnd no intention to embarrass or injure any private business in the slightest degree, and had no objections to entertain any recommendations of the select committee appointed to inquire into atiy c'aims mr.da. —Mr Sheehan objected. The Commissioner had not stated the cse fairly. He agreed that the distillation wag a -mistake "'hey, were told that the distilleries cou'd distil gin, brandy, and all other spirits, enough to ■ lead them to believe that this was a perfect paradise for distilleries. What was the result ! They were told the speculation was not a paying one. -This ought to be a warning to all holding extreme protection views. On the other hand, he held that the answer returned to the Government letter by the Auckland distillers destroyed the value of that letter. Bis own view was that the Government ought to stop the manufacture altogether, and iodemnifj those whom the Government induced to join in it. — Mr Yogel said-- they might as well decide ihs question of duty now as at any other time, and settle the question of compensation afterwards. — Sir Dillon Bell opposed the motion to report progress. He wanted to know, when the Commissioner showed that the Colony was a large loser, and VI r »'acandrew said thab the Colonial distilleries wpre also lesers, how holb statements were reconcilable. — Mr J. Shephavd explained that the reason 'was that Colonial spirits must excel Jf ome spirits, or they wou7d n'jt at all go into consumption. If Colonial distilleries did not pay now, they never would, and the quicker the Government bought them out, and prohibited distillation altogether, the better. — Mr Luckie agreed with the views «.f the Commissioner. He pointed out that the proposed change was not at all out of the way, nor such as to suggest the idea of compensation. In 1863 the excise duty per gallon in England was 7s ; in Scotland, 2s 6d ; and in Ireland, 2s -8d ; and yet, when it waa equal to lOs-per gallon throughout the whole kingdom, no one heard of any outcry or claim for compensation. As for distilling aiding in the promotion of agriculture, that was a deInsion, for the Southern brewers had last year had to send to Califo-nia for grain. — Mr M'Glasban thought the idea of stopping distillation altogether was a piecs of absurdity, rttop that, and they should stop the importations of spirits. — Mr Reid objected to the pioposal to abolish the industry without endeavoring to discover whether it was not possible in the course of time to recoup themselves for the large amount of money lost to the country through distillation. J3e , denied that distillation had ever been fostered as a means of aiding agriculture. Be hoped the House would report progress. — Mr Reader Wood said it was evident that this first attempt at (protection was a failure, and he had no doubt that every such attempt would be the same The first figures quoted by the Commisaic/ner sufficiently Bhowed that the proposals of ,the Government were wise, and left no alternative but to support them. If a select committee was wanted for anything, it was for the question of cempensatioß, if brought forward ; but he saw no reason for compensation. Why did not the House last year appoint a committee of inquiry into hundreds of 'cases where hardship resulted from alteration of duties? Be could not tee that any primd facie case for compensation had been made out. He never saw a session that claims of the mest preposterous character were not brought forward. It was time they set their faces against such practises, instead of almost inviting a claim by appointing a com* mittee to inquire into' claims not yet made. — Mr Tolmie asked that the petition laid on the table regarding excise duty be read (petition read) — Mr Murray objected to the idea of destroying an industry before having a fair trial . He would rather see British spirits not imported at all. Let them- live upon what Scotland grew. The debate on excia i duties was resumed. —Mr Pyke said the Government had by implication promised that the matter should be referred to a select committee. Besides, he maintained that the Government had deliberately promised the distillers that there was no intention to increase the excise duty. He utterly deprecated the Government of any country playing fast-and-lobse in that way. He entirely agreed with the views embodied in the amendment given notice of by tbe hon. member for fort Chalmers, so that some permanent security might -be afforded to persons engaged" in distillation. —Mr M Gillivray also approved of the amendment to be proposed by the member for Port Chalna'ers as meeting the case exactly. Re would rather see Colonial spirits paying 12s per gallon than that Home spirits should be imported at all — Mr Thompson opposed the proposals, on the ground that the Government was not justified in carrying out such proposals, af-er the promises >hey bad made to the distillers, for h« considered Mr Cawkwell had the best of the wgumtat with

the Oorwmnent, M shown by his pamphlet. There was a great deal of sentiment talked anaut closing up the distilleries of the Colony, but they all knew that if they did there would be any amount of illicit distillation. Unsidenng the amount of interest suddenly taken in this question, he could not help tlurking the importers had something to do with tho hue and cry now raised against Colonial distillation. It appeared that a large number of members opposed a select committee bee utsc they were afraid Mr Gawk well had a c'aitn and would push it No doubt Mr Tawkwell had a good claim, and would yet establish it, aud it would "have to bs met

oat of therevenuesof the country.— Question was then put that progress be repor ed and leave given to ait again, upon ■which the House divided with the following results :—: — Ayes, 25; noas, 36.— Mr Maca'ndrew then moved, as an amendment, "That in order to provide permanent security to distillers against any expected increase in the rate of duty, the rate should be, on all apirit3 manufactured in the Colony during 1878, 7a, per gallon to 10s imported, and Gd added per gallon for the two following years, and to remain at-8s per gallon until altered by law. He regretted the amendment hal not beon longer in the hands of members, as it met t!ie case perfectly, because he felt sure that diitiliers would have a veryiarge and just claim against the Govornment if the proposal* wer\i carried. --(^o, do.) ..He doubted the perfect accuracy of the Commissioner's figures, which might be modified considerably ,without considering many collateral advantages the Colony dirived from distillation. — Mr Rey nolds eoitld not see how the fJou*e could oppose the proposals, considering the lar^e prospective I' -as before the Colony as admitted by the first clause of the amendment. He could assure members thai the Government had given the question a most serious and long consideration, and it was impossible the country could go ou losing so much per gallon. — Mr Luckie pointed outthat the second paragraph of the amendinunt was cunningly worded. It would secure fur the distillers the differential duty by the Act of 1873, because he was given t~> understand there was three years' supply in bond at Dun edin. — Mr Swansou reiterated that, according to Mr Seed's letter. Mr Cawkwell bad a gojd case against the Government, though the letter was so equivocal!}' w.orded that Mr Cawkwell had to write to Mr "-eed to ask him what was the exact meaning of his words Why did not the Government buy out these distilleries, and go into the grog business at once, and have the whole thing to themselves, with all their other business ? He hoped soon members would withdraw (?). — Mr Stafford said he hoped the houor&ble member for Port Chalmers' resolutions would recomm?nd themselves to the good Beuseof J,he House, as he thought they were so framed as to maet the circumstances i.f this very peculiar case. While prepared toadmit that Colonial distillation caused a considerable ioss to the Colony, he alsj distrusted the figures adduced by the Commissioner of Customs ; inde.d, he always dstrusted figures of that department mora than those of any kind. - It mu3fc .be remembered that the establishing of licensed distilleries bad completely cheeked a large amount of i' licit distilling which had previously prevailed, no fewer than forty-one stills having been discovered iv one district in one year ; but how many were not discovered ? There was no doubt whatever that Government bad, as holding out inducements, in effect promised not to interfere rigorously with the duties. — Mr Yogel t-'ecliued to enter, in committee, upon that phase of the question, which involved detriment to any company or n^ividnal. .No one could doubt that ifi was iabsolately necessary to increase the excise, duty, but they could not consider the abstract question in a proper manner while it was mixed up with questions tf private rights. So little had Government the desire to act in a way injurious to distillers, that they would be prepared to grant a select committee after the" Bill containing the resolutions had been read a first time, ia order to investigate the merits of the case. — Mr Gillies maintained, as againsn the figures submitted by the Commissioner of Customa, that, although the Government might;- have missed a certain amount of revenue, the Colony as a whole had not lost anything : oa the contrary, it had been largely the gaine-f, as 294,000 galbns of spirits had been distilled in the Colony, for which money had been retained her j.— Mr Kesder Wood pointed out that, as the resolutions of the member for Port Chalmers would nob come into force before 1 878, and as this Parliament would not lon er be in existence, it was better that this Parliament should allow the next Parliament to deal with the matter, lie considered the Government was acting quite fairly in the matter.— Sir J. Cracrofi Wilson could not see bow a breach of faith was di-covered now which was never heard of before. —Major Atkinson a ild that, while he would" be prepared to consider the claimß of any persons against Government, he wouldlike to see the fiscal question stripped of its private bearings, and dealt with on abstract grounds. — The resolutions were then carried on the voices, and reported to the House, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday.

The Post Office Savings Banks Bill was committed. — Mr Swanson could see no necessity for limiting the deposit to Ll,(«00 if limited at all. — J. Mr B. Brown, in speaking of his own knowledge of the surprising way in which savings banks deposits were turned over, was certain that, in case of a financial crisis, the possibility of withdrawing such arge amounts was dangerous. The danger was great with a thousand pounds limit, but much greater'if the amount was unlimited. The savings banks were not intended fopersojns owning fuch laige amounts — Tbe Premier had no doubt the Goverument was quite capable of carrying on the business as safely as any bank. He did not apprehend any danger from the thousand pounds limit, but he must object to so serous an innova tion a? making deposits unlimited. — Mr Pyke pointed out that the Government waa entering into unfair competitioa with ordinary banking institutions of the country. In this way a man could place LSOO in the bank in" Dunedin, and could draw it in Wellington without paying any exchange. It wa« m< st unfair to the other banks. — Mr J. B. Browu thought that a most unfair proceeding, if true. — Mr Yogel could not Bee that bauks had any reason to complain because the" Government extended to the savings banks depositors every reasonable facility they could. — (Hear, hear ) — The Bill was reported without amendments, read a third time, aud passed. ' The New Zealand Forest debate was adjourned tilt Tuesday. The Premier moved the second reading of the Government Insurance and Annuities Bill, and explained its provisions. The second clause repeals Acts of 18(59 and 1870. Clause 15 enables married women to contract as if single, and dispose of interest in contracts by will. Clause 20 makes life annuities free from £axes. Clause 26 piovides for loans on policies Clause 27 makes provision for arbitration in disputes between annuitant or feis kin and the commissioner. Clause 41 provides for annual accounts being laid before Parliament. Clauses 42, 43, and 44 provide for actual investigation every five, years, and the bringing up statement and report. Clause 45, the- last clause, provides for tho surplus of funds being divisible among the policy-holders ; these last c ; au*es bting hedged round with every kind of precaution to make its operation beneficial, and placing the whole under the control of the House. — The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tu«»day,

The House went into committee upon the Civil Service Act Amendment Bill. The Premier proposed an amendment on the second clause. The repeil of the 19bh sec tion by the said Act sha'l not affact any persons transferred from the Provincial Civil Service to the Colouul Civil Service before parsing of said Act""— The clause wa* strongly opposed by Mr Swanion and Mr Wood, but "wa9 agreed to. — Iv Clause 3 the name of Mr David I ewis, Commissioner appointed and^r the New Z 'aland Land Claimants Ordinance, was introduced, ami to whom provisions of the .\ct are to exteni specially. Clause 10 provides a retiring allowance, an-l that no pensions be granted if the annual sum of L 9.000 be exceeded, unless the Governor considers the claimant entitled to it. A sharp discussion ensued, Mr Reader Wood moving that that part giving discretionary power to the Gnvernor to grant pensions ia excess of L 9,000 be struck out. A lon^ discussion took place, followed by a division, the result being that the clause in ibs original form was retained by 28 to 9. The House adjourned at 1 a.m.

July 21 In the House, Mr Pyke askeJ. the Premier whether the Government were advissd of the disallowance of the Otago Gold Duty Repayment Ordinance, and, if so, whether he had any objection to lay upon tbe table a statement of the grounds upon which the dis-illowance had been advised?— The Premier said that the reason the t >tago Gold Duty Repayment Ordinance was disallowed wa3 because it contained m provi-ion for preventing tin gold produced in other Pro-

vinces from bda^ exported through. OtagO. Mr fld'Glashau asked the Minister oi Justice if the Government Jiad taken into consideration thfl punishment awarded to confirmed inebriates in the various Magistrates' Courts in sending such persons to gaol, in so far as such punishtne .t does not meet the evil by effecting a cure ; and if the Govern, ment will propose such an alteration in the law as will provide that such persons may be treated as lunatics instfed of heiug sent to gaol ? -Mr O'Rorke could not see that the General Government hid anything to do with the matter, and their attention had not been called to is. The question of lunatics was one exclusively dealt with by .the t'roviuces ; still, as the Government had bad its attention called to the matter, id would give it some consideration.

I The f retnier laid on the table a large batch of papers regardiug the Polynesian Islands. En doing so, he said they wonld naturally suggest to hon. members to ask what course the Government proposed to tak-e upjn tbe subject. Hon. members would find the papers exceedingly interesting. They were a compilation of reporis from official sources on the South Sea Islands. Some of them had been, published before, but they were now collected together. Th«re was also a useful map, and various Ministerial memoranda regarding the is'ands, beside * a variety of other matter relating to the subject —altogether being the most valuable information ob aiuable upon the subject. As he said before, the question that would suggest itself to hon. numbers' miuds would be as to what course the Governm-nt proposed to take iv reforence to the papers, which would be found in the Blue Book, upon the question of establishing, er cncour-iging, by way of a subsidy, the eitablishment of a commercial company, to trade between New Zealand and the Pol>ne.-iau Mauds. Whether or not the Government would proceed with the question this session he did not know, but he did not hesitate to express an opinion that it was a question of very great importance to New Zealand, aud one which deaerved the consideration and attention ot members. He >vas quite aware that any propasal of tins kind was open to objection, nnd fears were sometimes entertained of the Government engaging in things which private persons could carry out. There was also the theorstical objection that trade could not be controlled ; but, for his part, he considered that the nuxiin was one which everyday experience contradicted. There was nothing in tbe proposals shadowed forth in the papers which the Government were ashamed of, and they were quite prepai^l to le ivetue qu.-sfcion to stand upon itß own merits before the House_ lie believed that the question, if rightly dealt, with, was one hardly second in im- i portaacein its effects to the Pul lie Works and Immigration scheme, upon which the Cooriy had embarked. It was necessary to avoid the mistake of only giving to the

oiony one kind of occupation They must provide means for the energies of those whose. inclinations directed them to commer-ci-il pursuits, and give them s3->pe to carry thesa out. All were not content to till the soil, or these beautiful islands would not have been discovered. In these islands they h«id means to open to the young men of New Zealand to carry out commercial operations .which could not fail to have a bemfiV.ial effect' upon its commTce. He did not hesitate to say that the day was not far distant when New Zealand would become the centre of Polynesia, and when the Governor of New Zealand would also be the Governor-General of the Polynesian Islands. This question was not one of pirties, and whether the Goverament proceeded with it or not this session would entirely depend upou what opinion members would form upon the subject. The risk they would run in entering upon any scheme of the kind would be trifling as compared with the results which must arise by making .^ew Zealand a great and pio ductive country, in respect not only to its interior, but to its outward resources. — / (Applause.) Mr Pyke gave notice of his intention to ask whether the Govcnment intead to take «n steps to remove restrictions upon the importation of timber made by the tjoutliiaud Lands

Mr Reynolds gave notice of his intention to move as to whether the motion for increasing excise duties was a breach of faith, or whether it was desirable to abolish distillation.

The following Bills were introduced and read a first time : — Bill to amend Goldfields Act, 1866 (by Curtis). Waterworks Loan Bill for Nelson (Curtis), , Bill to amend Licensing Act, 1873 (Yogel). The Civil Service Act Amendment Bill and Government Insurance Annuities Biill were repoited with amendments.

In the Council, Dr Menzies asked the Government whether they intf-nded to introduce a Bill to provide for the revision and correction of the Provincial Electoral Kolls. He said the Provincial Rolls were full of mistakes and very liable to errors. — The Colonial Stcretary said the Government had no intention of briuging in a Bill, but would give their best attention to the subject.

The Hon. R. Campbell moved that a Sur-veyor-General should be appointed to inspect the surveys of the whole Colony. In doing so, he said the need for such an officer was very great, and that, if a Surveyor-General with a good staff were appointed to go round the Colony and inspect etirvey'', every necessary reform could be effected — The Hon. Colonel Brett said it would be a very great expense, and entirely new surveys would have to be made.— The Hon. Mr Waterhouse said a complete trigonometrical sur-

vey would be necessary, fer reformation of surveys. He thought the whole question should be referred to a select committee, whose evideuce would be overpowering. — The Hon. Dr Menzies approved of the-plan, but thought it r« quired considerable ameudment.—The Hon. Dr -Pollen thought thi Council and public were indebted to the action of Mr Campbell. The Government last session had endeavored to pass a vote of

L 5,000 for surveys, but it was negatived. The Government would gladly see ths spirit of the motion agrepd to, reserving to themselves the right of not adh ring strictly to its terms.— The Hon. Mr Campbell, in reply, thought there would be no couflicts between the <7eneral and Provincial Survey Departments. He had not iutm ied awaiting affirmative by h's motion, but only to indicate to the Government a course it was allowable to pursue. —The motion was agreed to without dissvnt.

The second reading of the Westland Loan Act was postponed till Thursday, and the third rexdiug of the Inspection Oi Machinery Bi'Rixedfor Friday.

I The .Supreme Court Judges Bill and Postoffice Savings Bank Bill were read a first time. The Council adjourned at 3.30 p.m. July 22 Mr Kelly placed in the hands of the clerk an article reflecting upon his character as a member, printed in the ' New Plymouth Advertiser. He explained the circumstances which called forth the charges, and asserted that they were devoid of truth. He made a motion,, so as to give any member of the House, having any doubt upon the matter, an opportunity to make further inquiry. — Mr Yogel thought that, if the House took up all the statements appearing in newspapers, they would be undertaking a task out of all proportion to the results likely to flow from it. He would not recommend the House to make a practice of interfering with matters of this kind. If hon members felt that their reputation was injured, their best remedy , w.ts 10 invoke the assistance of the civil law. ■ —The matter then dropped. Mr Mervjn asked the intention of the Government in reference to deepening the Sludge Channel at Naseby, in accordance with the recommendation .of the Provincial authorities of Otago. —Mr Richardson said the Government was not in a position to , comply wi_h the recommendation.

Mr Pyke asked the Minister for Public Works whether h s attention bad been directed to the prohibition by the Southland Waste Land Boart of exportation beyond the boundaries of Southland of railway sleepers and othe"f timber : if the Government approved of the prohibition ; if not, whether they will take action to relieve the timber trade of Southland from the vexatious restriction imposed by the Board. — Mr Richardson sail that the Government did not approve of the course pni>ued by the Southland Government, and were then giving the matter their serious consideration. The only way to deal with land was by a short enactment, and he Faw no reason why theSouthlandUovernnient should object.

Mr Sheehan moved, " That it is desirable a readjustment of represeutation in this House should be made, to take effect at the next general elections, and that the Government should take 'into consideration the quesiion dv ing the r.-cess, with a view of the preparation of a properly-matured measure, to be submitted to the House at its next session." He did not thiuk it desirable to increase the number of representatives i-f the House but thought the representation of the Colony required readjustment. It had been said that the effect would be to increase the representative power of Auckland at the expense of the other Provinces of the Colony; but, if her-population and contribution to consolidated revenue entitled hor to more representation, she ought to have it. 'Ie did not put the question from a narrow point of view. He held that the inr?quality of the re jresentation in several of the Provincea was aelL- evident. Intimating the representative power of the different Provinces how they liked, they must see thatTarauaki should bt* reduced one or two members, and Wellington one. There was bo doubt these Provinc a were over-represented as compared with Auckland oi- the constituencies of the West Coast of the Middle Island. The hou. member quoted from a speech of Mr O'Connor on the same question during a previous session, while he held that the Government was right in refusing the demand for readjustment when they did, as it was at the request of a single constituency ; but now the circucns'tancea of tbe Colony were greatly changed — its population immensely increased — and it was the obvious duty of the Government, on the eve ot a new Parliament, to prepare a measure for redistribution before next session, so that the nexb Parliament might have the benefit of the change, as the present system was a delusion and a sham.— Mr Yogel said that, while the hon. member had taken great pains in getting up the statistics he forgot that the decision upon tbe matter was based upon the numbers of members which the House considered each Province was to have as compared with the others. It was quite notorious that I arauaki or Wei-" lingtou, as. compared with Hawke's Bay, had more members than it seemed justified in having either by area or proportion ; but still the House, in 1870, had deemed it wise to adjust it so, aud it was singular to notice the amount of unanimity then display cd. '1 he arguments used by hon. members were all old, and the sole object of his reuiaiks appeared to be tr> secure larger representation for the Province of Auckland. But if this were granttd in the case of Auckland, they would have other Provinces which had advanced since 1870 a gr-at deal more than Auckland, asking for more representation : and if th-.it were carried out according t© the views of the hon. member, the probability was that Auckland wonld be asked to give up some of her members to adjust the amount ot representation Generally lie could not think that anything was to be gained from the motion of the hon.- gentleman. It was not likely that the House would grant an increased representation to Aucklandnow, when it was refused to her before when she wasia almost as advanced a state. As for anomalies of representation, it would always be found, for no hard-and-f,tst lines could ever be followed in the adjustment of such a question. For instance, Wellington and i Dunedin were represented by two members each, while Auckland had three ; and yet everyone knew that Dunedin was the mi re impurtaut city. Looking at the question from the point of view that new arrivals in the Colony required representation, he did not consider it wise to introduce immigrants tor the purpose of allowing them to govern you. He thought the present number of members in the House quite sufficient. The only way in, which the members could manage the question was to give and take a member here and there. He could assure kon. members that it would be impossible to get members to consider the question from an entirely new basds. They would always take into calculation the lass decision upon the matter. The Government, however, did not wish to evade the question in any way. i hey were quite willing to consider it during the recess. He would move the previous question.

July 23, The following is the continuation of the debate in the Jtlouse on the liepresentative question :—: — Mr Macandrew seconded the motion because he knew that if the principle of the motion were acted upon, it would be found that Otago was only half represented — Mr Reader Wood combated the arguments of the Premier, who, he said, admitted that the representation was adjusted upon no principle whatever, being merely jumped at. For his t)vvn part he could recognise no other basis than that of population, and he would like to see the motion amended in this respect. — Mr O'.Nei]l san< t' at last year he presented a petition with 2,U00 signatures, praying for an additional representative, and the other

day presented another petition making a similar application. There wa9 no doubt that the Thames, at least, was badly treated in the way of representation, having only one member forapopulatiou of between 12,000 and 15.U00. He was sorry the hon. member had not moved that the Government be requested to bring in a measure of adjustment this session. — Mr -< wanton thought the Governm"nt appeared to thLk thing 3 well enough as they wore, .and seemed disinclined to interfere; (nit if hon. members would take

his view of the matter, tbey would make the motion a crucial one, and one that the Government dare not refuse to face. If constituencies returned members pled, ed to turn out any Government which burked the question, they would soon see an end of such auomalies as Tarauaki and the Thames. — Mr O'Conor supported the motion, — Mr Thomson said the member for Rodney had made out a good case. It was lamentable to see the I case ot thn Thames session after session staring them in the face. Ihere was no doubt that the Thames representatives had the sympathy of the House, and for his own part he thought that the hon. member should be allowed to vote twice. The Government ought to bring down a Bill this- session for adjusting the whole question. — Mr Sheehan pressed for a division. — Mr W. Kelly supported the"motion.— Mr M'Gillivray thought the representation of Provinces demanded great alteration, and instanced the district of Kiverton. — Messrs Murray and Bruce sup- { ported the motion — Mr Mervyn hopfd the motion would be carried by such a majority as would show the Government they must not temporise with such imporfe&nb questions. — Mr Triba also suuporfcsd the motion — a division was called for, and resulted in 30 for the motion and 33 for the previous question.

Mr Macandrew moved, "That it is expedien that memb-ra of Volunteer Fire Brigades should, at their own option; be exempted from service as jurors, and that the Juries Act be amended accordingly." He said that firemen, in pursuance of their self-imposed occupation, were liable to be c tiled out of bed at all hours of the night and day. He thought no body of men in the Colony was so deserviHg of the immunity asked for, because they sacrificed their own ease and comfort for the protection of the life and property of their fel-low-citizens. — Mr Pearce seconded the motion, and desired to bear his testimony to the valuable services of men who, without fee or pay, performed a most important duty, and their only reason for presenting the petition was, they found their duties as j urynaen interfered witla their duties as firemen. — The Prem er admitted the matter was deserving of attention, but said it was not a question which could be dealt with in half an hour. It was" necessary that some provision should be made to prevent persons who, to avoid serving on juries, would become honorary members of the Brigade. The Government did not like to bring in any hasty measures. — Mr T. L. Shepherd said tbe captain of the Dunedin Brigade assured him they would prevent members joining tbe Brigade merely for the purpose of evading the jury service. He wished t6 see the question put to the vote. — Mr O' 'onor said it would not work well^in small communities. — Mr Wales thought a very short Bill would do. In small towns, where the plan would not work so well, he thought they should make it extend to a certain number only, and they should be gazetted. — Mr Luckie thought that the present jury system should be dealt with on broader principles. A good lesson was given by the action of Victoaa in the matter by lessening the number of jurora. He thuughc the Government would act wisely by amending the jury list altogether, aud consider the question of j iries of four and six, and abolish chat which had come to be considered a solemn sham — viz. , grand juries. — Mr Cut ibertson could not see any case to justify interference. — Mr Hunter said that to grant the boon asked for was very trifling. In the case of Dunedin it was asked to be relieved of some thirty men ©ut of a population of 18,000 ; and in Wellington, of ab mt fifty out of 10,000. As regards small communities, it was seld >m that juries were wanted there. — Mr Andrew opposed the rootiun, on the ground that every man should become acquainted with the working of the jury system. — Mr O'Neill testified to the valuable services of the fire brigades, but thought the time wa3 rapidly arriving when firemen would be well paid instead of giving their services gratuitously, htill he would support the motion. — Mr Bryce thought the debate should be adjourned until they learned the nature of th« report of the committeo to which one of the petitions had been referred. — Mr Macandrew offered to have a Bill drafted immediately that would prevent uny abuse of privilege, and put a stop to shams. — The motion was then agreed to.

At the evening sitting, In reply to Mr J. C. Brown, the Premier said the Government were alone responsible for the disallowauce of the Otago Gold Repayment Ordinance ; but they had no objection to produce all correspondence on the matter.

On the motion of Mr Luckie, the Government agreed to lay on the table all particulars regarding the leasing of a large block of laud in Hawke's Bay to alfred Cox.

Mr T. L. shepherd moved the second reading of the Gold-mining Bill, upon which, he said, a good deal of attention had been paid. He referred to the opposition which the Bill last year met with from those in the squatting interest. On the suggestion of several members, although they did not give their grounds of opposition, the Bill was withdrawn. He hoped there would be less opposition this year, aud that those who did oppose it would place their reaSDns on record. The hon. member procee ied to explain the principal features of the Bill, which, he said, were mostly identical with the provisions of the Bill of last year, although much shorter. He might summarise the contents of ihe Bill by saying that it was merely a consolidation of tbe present laws upon fh ; subject, with tbe addition of vaiious improvements found necessary by those who had considerable experience iv the working of the existing Acts. P'or some time past not one word of censure had been passed upon any provision of the Bill, except in a small agdcultural paper. In conclusion, he hoped that any opposition to ths Bill would be displayed on the ftaor of the House, and not in the lobbies, or in the streets of Wellington and other unusual places. — Mr Pyke seconded the Bill with pleasure, because it wa3 a great improvement upon the Bill of" last session, inasmuch as it was simpler and less, cumbrous, and no doubt, when amended in committee ie would prove a- great boon to tne mining communities of the colony. — Mr O'B.orke sud the Government approved of the measure as far as it west, b-cause it consolidated various laws relating to the goldfields, and on that account he considered it a Bill they were to some extent committed to.— Mr White, though unaware of any demand for the measure in the district he represented, would give a tacit support to the second reading. — Mr J. C. Brown had no wish to oppose the Bill, which he believed was an improvement upon the Bill of last year, which the House, fortunately, did not pass. He had no doubt 'that the Bill would receive a searching investigation at the hands of the Goldfields' Committee. — The second reading was agreed to.

The Wellington • ospical Reserves Bill and the W elimgton Special Settlements Acb Amendment Bill were reported without amendments, aud ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr Macandrew moved the second reading

of the Ofcago Waste Lands Act Amendment Bill. Its principal object was 1 to provide for a more efficient administration, and wasf mnded upon the resolution of the Provincial Ci un"il of Otago. It would form no ground

for what members calkJ th;* annual Otu.o

free fight. — It was sc^ondid by Mr Reid. — Mr Mervyn sug^esb"d that the Bill be amended so as to enable the miners to take up a lar^e area of land. — a second time and referred to the Waste Land Committee.

Mr Steward *noved the second reading of tie Oam iru Hospital Reserves rfilL — Agreed to, Mr Reynolds pointing out that the Government would probably suggest some amendments in .committee.

In re the Deceased Wife's Sister Marriage Bill, Mr Steward said he moved for the third time the second reading of the Bill. In iubmitting the Bill to the Hou3e he would confine himself t» a few fresh points in favor of the Bill which circumstances had evolved. When the Bill was first introduced, only one Australian Colony had then availed itself of the Bill, but now there were four, and only recently there was an instance of persons in the Coloay g^ing to Victoria to avail themselves of the law there ; and if persons in New Zealand saw in that nothing against society or good manners, ifc was surely an argument thab the public of the Colony were not averse to the principle of the Bill. — Mr M'Gillivray opposed the second reading of the Bill on Scriptural grounds, and becausa there had been no demand by the public for such a measure. He moved the" second reading of the -Bill that day six moatha — Mr O'Rorke seconded the amendmat, aud hoped that would be the last session in which such a Bill would te introduced, although he was aware that sev ral Australian Colonies had departed from the rule and tradition of the Home country. He opposed the Bill on two grounds : that it was repugnant to the law of Englaud, and utterly abhorrent to people of his own country, as well as those of oth^r portions of the Empire. — Mr M'Glashan supported the Bill Why should tbey send away their people elsewhere to avail themselves of the law proposed ? Why not allow people here the privilege without going elsewhere ? It couldjaot be repugnant to. tbe law of .England, or it would not be allowed in those seas. — Air*W. Johnston supported the amendment, on the ground that the Bill would subvert one of their dearest .domestic relations. He did not consider that half-a-dozen people in the Colony cared to avail themselves of the Bill. From hi 3 own personal knowledge, he could say it was repugnant to women generally. — M"r J. Shephard said the House had twice affirmed the principle of the Bill, and, he hoped, would do" so a third time, aad make the Bill law. He could not see how the Bill affected the morality of the people in any way. — Mr Stewai d recommended the House to take the advice of the Minister of Ju> tice, and do the s ime as the Hoube of Commons an Home, which had over and over agaia pxssed a similar Bill. As for destroying the domestic relations of sisters, he could say that no such terrible results had been deve oped in Prussia, where such a law had long been in existence. — A division was called for, the result being— For the amendment, 9 ; against, 20. The Bill was oideied to be committed to-morrow.

The third readings of the Civil Service Acts Amendment Act, and the Justices of the Peace Act Amendment Act ware moved.

Mr < i'Rorke moved the second reading of the Offences Against the Person Act Amendment Act. — It was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.

On the Presbyterian Church of Otago "Land Bill, \lv Reynolds moved the second reading. — Read a second time, aud made an order of the day for to morrow.

The House went into committee on the Municipal Ressrves Bill. After a long discushion, regarding the amendment proposed by Mr J. L. Gillies, progress was reported, and the House adjourned at 10.45. Mr steward asked whether the rolliHgstock employed on the Provincial branch railways shall be of such pitterns as to allow of their being used on the main lines. — Mr Richardson was undei stood to pay that at present in Otago some branch of Che rollingstock had been available for the mam lines, and he believed that that would be generally the ease.

Mr Richardson delivers his Public Works statement tn-morrow.

In the House of Hepresentatives, to-day, the second reading of the Plans of Towns Regulation Bill was moved by Mr O'Neill, who referred to the previous history of the measure in Parliament siace first introduced by himself. The measure wa3 one which ouj;ht to gn hand in hand with the Public Works policy. By neglecting to pass such a measure, the Colouy would eveutually incur a very serious loss, without taking into cousideration the health of the people of the Colony, which was far more important. — Mr Swanson supported the second reading, and sdid the question involved a great deal, and was deserving of the attention of the Government. A little foresight in laying out plans of towns would often save the Government untold gold, and uutold misery to the people.— Mr Richardson said he had given subject a good deal of attention. He had partially drawn up the Bill, buc found it to be hedged round with so many difficulties that he was assured nothing less t!-ian a Bill of 1,200 clauses would meet the requirements. However strict they might be in framing Acts, they could not stop purchasers of land creating lanes afterwards ; and often these laves, as in Melbourne, became most important streets. — Mr Buckland considered the Bill utterly impracticable ; the size of the stieets was altogether too large. He hoped the B.ll**would be withdrawn. — Mr Murray thought such a Bill was much required, and hoped, it would be amended in committee as to make it generally acceptable. — Mr Thomson supported the Bill. They ought to take a lesson from the great towns of -the world, and provide that their thoroughfares were wide en'>u^h to plant trees on each side. Tha Beach in Wellington was an instance of the necessity for good streets. — The Bill was read a second time. — Mr Yogel said the Govtrament were coafident the Bill in ita present shape would retard the progress of the country. However sound in principle, the Bill was theoretically one of those measures that were likely to lead to great embarrassment. He hoped the hon. member would not press the Bill beyond the present stage.

The Oamaru Hospital Reserves Bill was reported, with amendments.

The Deceased Wife's bis ci* Bill waa reported, without amendment. Upon the motion for its third reading, the freuaier gave it as his private opinion that the population of the Colony would be injured by such a measure. It was quite true that a similar Bill had been passed in other Colonies, but it wa« chiefly owing to the large amount of pressure in individual cases. ihere ought to be only one law for marriage, and it would be quite time enough to alter the present law when the Imperial Parliament did so. A | great deal of misery arose from irregular marriage laws, such as the Scotch. He would dissuade members from disturbing social relations in the Colony. He would like to see IS'ew Zealand attractive to all those persons who had desired to marry their deceased wife's sister. — Mr Fox looked at the question from a different point of view from the Premier's. What they had to do was to look to the requirements of the people — not at any religious aspect of the case. The question was one that could not be su 1 jetj ct to individual interference, and the State had no right to interfere with the liberty of the subject. The House could not have » better example

than the House of Commons and other Australian Colonies. It was only the preponderance of the ecclesiastical element in the House of Lords which kept such a Bill from becoming the law of Englaad — Mr O'Neill m >ved that the Bill be read a third time that day six months. — A division was then called for, the result being —For the Bill, 24 ; ag.iitist it, 17. The Bill was then passed.

The Electric Telegraph Bill in "committee w.i 8 amended, so that ths sender of messages could, by order in writing, and without the intervention of the Telegraph Commissioner, order the production of tslegams.

Bills introduced and read a first time :— Bill to allow the Corporation of Wellington to borrow L 25,009 for- Waterworks ; Wellington Public Works Bill ; Bill providing for the Election of Mayor of Wellington ; and Bill to amend the Southland Waste Land Act, 1873.

July 24 • Ia the House, the second reading of the Colonial Bank of New Zealand Bill was moved by Mr' Fox. — The Bill was read accordingly. * The following Bills were read a first time : — A Bill to Amend the Wellington Educa; tion Reserves Act. 1871 ; Merchant Shipping Acts Adoption Bill ; Naval Training Schools Establishment Bill; a Bill to Amend the Highway Boards Act, 1871. Upon the report of the Goldfields Committee on the Gold-mining Bill being read, Mr T. L. Shepherd moved that the Bill be committed that day ; but he said the second reading had passed with but one dissentient

voice, and yet the ' Goldiielda Committee Consisting of a few members, had absolutely refuse! even to 'consider the preamble of the oill which the House had said was necessary. It was a perfect farce for the minority of the House to have power to set the majority at defiance, take up the time of tae House, and waste the money in printing for nothing, giving the Rouse, in fact, a slap in the face, saying, " You are not fis to consider such a measure ; you know nothing of the subject." He wished such an anonia ous state of things to be deeded upon once for all. — Mr O'Conor said

the committee had decided last year that no such Bill should be introduced without being circulated upon the goldtields. As this had not been done with this r ill till committed, he declined to consider it. — Mr Yogel asked if it was desirable for the House, in the face of the report of the Goldfields Committee, to order the Bill to be committed. It was no criterion of the character of such a Bill •f tbe House good-naturedly did not oppose the second reading af it. The matter had pass d out of the control of the General Government, and if they were to be called upon to amend the existing system it could not be done in a haphazard mauner in the middle of the session, j heae questions required much consideration anl extreme caution. It was a difficult matter to get two Provincial Councils to a^ree upoa goldtields (|uestions. He would recommend the hon. member not to pi ess for a committee on the Bill. — Mr Maeaadrew said it was quite cleir, from the observations of the Premier, that the quieter the Hous9 abrogated all control ia these putters the better, as it had shown its utter incapacity to deal with them. It had been amply demonstrated that a Goldfields Bill which suited the Thames did not suit Otago and Westland. — Mr Shepherd would not press the Bill against the wish of the Government, but, as the chief reason for ita rejection by the committee was because it had not been circulated, -he hoped the Government would immediately circulate a fewhundred copies. — The Bill -was then withdrawn.

In reply to Mr O'Conor, the Premier said .he depaitment had not sufficient information -yet. as to the locality, to decide upon extending the telegraphic communication to No Town and Grey Vadey. Mr Harrison asked the Postmaster- Gsneral ■whether the condition of signing covers of newspaper exchanges mi^ht not be dispensed, with — The Premier said the present regulations had bead introduced to protect the revenue, but he thought he could see his way to overcome the difficulty by stamping ex-c'-i '*»ge papers. In reply to Mr Pyke, as t» whether the Government will reconsider the question of members' allowances, the Premier said the question was one containing so many anomalies, that it would be advisable that' the whole question should bessriouslycoasidered. He would therefore move that a select committee be appoiuted to take the whole subject into consideration.

Bills passed : Electric Telegraph Act Amendment Bill and Government Insurance and Annuities Bill.

The House then went into Committee of Ways and Means. ■ The following items were agreed" to without dissuasion : — Legislative Uepartments, i/23 84025; Executive departments, L 16.815 10s; fttamp Department, L.3,530 ; Printing Department, L 9.670; Store Department, L 535. On Geological and Meteorological Department, L 3.216. Some discussion ensued, Mr 'ihorosan wanting more time to consider the items, they having been brought up too unexpectedly. The increase from L3OO to L4jo in the salary of the Analyst having been questioned, the Premier said the increase wa3 well deserved, the officer having many and important duties. In reply to a question from Mr Macandrew, the Premier promised to give the analysts of Otago and Canterbury tne same status as Colonial analysts, item passed— Electoral Department, L 3,470. Agreed to. — Crown Lands Department, LI, 914- 15s. In proposing this item, the Premier said that 1 , owing to the enormous waste of labor, cost of services, and great confusion arising from, local surveys, he thought the appointment of a Surveyor-General would prove a great boon to the oolony. — Mr J. E. Brown could speak fiom his own experience as a surveyor, that such appointment was nseessary, and. the sooner the Government organised a more perfect system the better. — Mr Fox hoped the Government would adhere to their intention of attempting to improve the surveys of the Colony. — Mr Banriy regarded such proposal as suspicious. It looked like a design on ths part of the Government to get the control of the waste lands of the Colony. What would then become of Provincial Governments?— The Premier explained at length, the peculiar position ia which the surveys of the Colony were, and the many mistakes all over. He assured the House that the proposal was not at all of an insidious character. — Mr Maea/idrew reminded the House that the report upon the Conference of surveyors recomtuended such an appointment without feariug any terrible consequence.— Mr Carrington s ail it would co3t a million of money to correct the surveys of the Colony. — Mr Cracroft Wilson : Yes, six millions — Items : Department of Justxcs, LI, 168 ; Crown Land Office, (..1,160; Supreme Court, L 7,155, 155 j District Courts, LI, 610, passed.