PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuapeka Times, Volume VII, Issue 360, 30 May 1874, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

a'tTB6DiT;MAT26. Several petitions were received. Tbe {Waste Land and Immigration Committee reported. On the petition of eightyfour owners of land, occupiers of agricultural leaseholds, and settlers in the districts of Crookston and Tuapeka, who prayed that additional land might be opened for settlement in the 'districts' of Crookston and Tuapeka— that it is, desirable another block, under the agricultural lease system, should be opened, all the available land being taken up ; but that, while not justified from, the evidence before them in recommending the special block asked for, strongly recommend the Government to declare such blocks as may be deemed advisable, convenient to the land occupied by the petitioners.

The Committee on the Cattle Ordinances &c., reported as follows: — "Your committee have found during their investigation of the subject that there are very complicated laws in existence regarding the branding regulations. They therefore recommend that the laws on the subject be codified, that the registration of brands should^De controlled by one head department, where the general registry should be alone kejpt, but that distinct officers should be appointed to whom applications to register brands could be made for the purpose of being transmitted to the head officer for approval and final registry ; that parties already having registered brands should be entitled to a priority of new registry, according to date of their original registry ; that greater powers should be provided to insist on the registering of all brands used for cattle and horses; that a heavy penalty should be enforced against any person using an unregistered brand ; that power should be given to the Chief Registrar or any., person employed bx him to impound unbranded cattle or hones at large on unclosed lands or roads, and that all cattle or horses so seized should, if sold, be branded with a registered pound brand, as also the registered brand of the purchaser, before leaving the custody of the poundkeeper ; that drovers and others travelling with cattle or horses should furnish a Justice Of the Peace or some other authorised person with a list of the number and . description of the cattle or horses intended to be driven, whereupon the justice of the peace or authorised person shall give a certificate to be carried by the person in charge of such cattle or horses, and produced for inspection at the request of any authorised person. In conclusion your committee would strongly urge the necessity of the Government giving the subject, during the recess, their serious consideration, and that an Ordinance, embodying the above suggestions, for the better regulation of branding, be submitted to. the Council next session. Message No. 13 was read as follows: — The Superintendent submits for the consideration of the Provincial Council the desirability of setting apart the following blocks of land for settlement on deferred payments : — Hokonui district : 1,150 acres on run No. 116, 1,000 acres on run 119 a, 2,700 acres on run 112, 1.550 acres on run 195 a, 200 acres on run 207 a 1,000 acres on run 146. Taringshire district : 2,000 acres on run 214, 625 acres on run 136, 1,700 acres or run 149, 960 acres on run 159.- Wairiro district: 1,950 acres on run 153, 880 acres on run 133. Waiau district : 750 acres on run 156a2, 1,160 acres on run 165, 2.680 acres in Otcramika Hundred, 3,000 in Newrider ditto, 3,500 acres in Forest Hill ditto, 3,651 acres in Oreti ditto." The Secretary for Lands and Works moved — " That this Council having had under its consideration his Honor's Message No. 9 relative .to the setting apart blocks of land within the licenses to occupy land and leases thereof on deferred payments may be granted either exclusively ' or within which the land shall be open for license or lease as aforesaid I or for sale on immediate payment,' approves of the recommendation therein contaiued and respectively requests his Honor to set apart the following blocks of land for that purpose in terms of the 47th section of the ' Otago Waste Lands Act 1872.' "—Carried without any debate. ELBCTIOK OP HOSPITAL STJBGEOTTS. Mr. Hazlett moved — " That the Hospitals Ordinance be amended so as to provide that the Hospital Surgeon shall be elected by subscribers who have paid their subscriptions of not less than 20s at least three months before the day of election ; and that the Central Hospital Committee of every district be empowered to appoint polling places for such election in such centres of population as may to them seem desirable.' Mr. Hallenstein in moving that the Ordinance should be "amended in' the direction of giving to the Hospital Committee the power to elect \he I surgeon, said that he was sorry to have to I state that at. present it was frequently the j cose that the best drinking men were chosen because the publicans had such great influence on the goldfields. The committees, as a rule, were composed of the best men in the district, The amendment was accepted by Mr. Hazlett and agreed to. i COTJBT-HOTTSE AT QTTEEN3TOWS-. Mr. Hallenstein moved — " That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to urge the General Government to erect a substantial Court-house and gaotyat Queenstown." Carried. COMPT7LSOBT READING 07 THE BIBLE IV PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Mr. Ireland moved — " That in the opinion of the Council, the reading of the Bible in the public schools of this province should not be compulsory, and that the" School Committees, with the sanction of the Education Board, should have the power to permit the reading of the Bible, subject to the restrictions contained in the Education Ordinance." The honorable member said he was convinced that under the present system an injustice was done to a portion of the community, and it was with the object of removing that injustice that he had brought forward this motion. __ It might be said that he should have gone further — that.he should have proposed that the reading of the Bible in public schools should be abolished altogether. It was originally his intention to propose a motion to that effect, but he was advised by a member of the Council, for whom he hod great respect, that if he moved for. the abolition of Bible reading in the schools without first giving a trial to the system proposed in his present motion, he would have-no chance of success. The present motion was altogether tentative, and if it. were carried, the province wpuld be able to ascertain how this system would work, when the Committees hod full liberty to deal with the matter. He thought this was as wise a course as could be adopted. Taking the census of 1871, he found that the Protestant population of the province amounted to very nearly 56,000 souls ; while Reman Catholics and non-Protestants 4 amounted to 13,493 souls, or about onefourth of the entire population. Now, in the interest of those who were not Protestant, or who had declined to subscribe themselves as such, he proposed the resolution; because he thought it a very hard thing that a man should be compelled to pay for the teaching of that which he could not conscientiously believe to be true. He thouight all would agree that their Roman Catholic friends and fellow-colonists were -of opinion that the teaching of the Bible should be left entirely to their priests — that the ordinary schoolmaster was not fit to teach the .truths of the Bible. Under these circumstances, he could not see how upon any system of justice they could impose upon their Roman Catholic brethern the expense of supporting teachers who were to be employed for a portion of their time in teaching the Bible. They were thus taxing Catholic* to pay for that wbi«h

the hitter's conscience condemned. He looked upon this as gross injustice. He did not see on what grounds religious instruction could be imparted in these schools. It might be said, " We don't teach religion $ we only read the Bible." But' such a statement appeared to him to be very inconsistent, as he could not see how they could read a book in the schools without teaching it: The 'speaker then questioned whether teachers were competent to teach the truths of the Bible. He did not wish to raise a religious discussion, and he simply put the motion before them on the ground that at present an injusice was done to a portion of the community. The Hon. Dr. Menzies, said 'if the Bible were banished from the schools the desires of four-fifths of the inhabitants of the Province would be ignored. Mr. M'Lean hoped the day would never come when the Council would pass a resolution to exclude the Bible from the schools. There was no attempt to expound the scriptures in the schools at the present time ; and as any parent was at liberty to remove his child from school during Bible reading, there was very little to complain of. The motion came from one section of the religious community — had come and would always come from the same source. The Provincial Solicitor asked if there, was a general desire that the Bible shpuld be read, why should the Council compel its reading! If the state were to take charge of the religious teaching of the young, was its duty to end with the reading of the Bible ? It would not end there, but there must be a State Church. The matter should be left with the people to decide, and where there was a difference of opinion he thought the majority would give way to the minority rather than shock their feelings in any way. He hod yet to learn that the State, as a State, hod any religion or creed at all. He ' considered the motion an anti-Christion one. If the Province -were polled. to-morroTT, tbere would be a desire to leave the matter to the Committees subject to the restrictions of the Education Board, and he could not see why -the Council should not leave them that option. An amendment, "That the reading of the Bible should be discontinued in the public schools," was moved by Mr. Lumsden supported by Mr. Hallensteiu, opposed by Mr. Gumming, supported by Mr. Fish, who was of opinion that the education should be secular, but reading the Bible without explanation was a gigantic farce, and opposed by the Hon. W, H. Keynolds, who agreed that it was not the dutyof the.state to teach religioninour public schools, but at the same time he altogether denied that there was any teaching of religion under the present system ; and by Mr M'Glashan, who, as a secularist, could have agreed with the amendment if there had been any pressure on the Council to take such a step and by the Provincial Secretary, who had no strong feeling at all for the Bible being read in the schools ; aud if there were any wide-spread felling of dissatisfaction hs would at once support the amendment. But the question was one of expediency — what would be desirel by the majority of the inhabitants ef the Province. In his opinion it would be a most impolitic step to pass the resolution. The Ordinance certainly said that the Bible should be read, but it did not state that the teacher should read it. There were a large borly of persons in the Province whose feelings would bo outraged if it were determined not to read the Bible in the schools at all. He thought that if they began to legislate" on these matters their hands Vould soon be full, and he failed to see that the consciences of any could be hurt by the law at present in existence. The outcome of the argument of the honorable member who had moved the motion was tli at a denominational system should be adopted — (No) — and he considered that they were calculated to reduce the standard of education. Whatever sense of injury now existed would not be removed by tho carrying of the motion. After further discussion, Mr. Lumsdeu's amendment was then put to the vote, and lost on a division by 20 votes against 16. The following is the division list :— Ayes, 16 — Messrs. Bastings, Brown J. C, Browne G. F. C, Clark R., Daniel, Fish, (teller), Green, Hallenstein, Hazlett, Ireland, Kinross, Lumsden, M'Kellar, Oh' ver, Reeves, and Stout. Noes, 20— Messrs. Allan, Clark H. (teller), Cumming, DeLatour, Henderson, Menzies, (teller), Mollison, M'Dermid, M'Glashan, M'Kenzie, M'Lean, M'Neil Reid, Reynolds, Roberts, Rogers, Sumpter, Tnrnbull, Wilson and Wood. Mr. Mockellar moved, as a further amendment — " That, in the opinion of this Council, the 40th section of the Education Ordinance, 1874, should be amended so as to abolish the compulsory reading of the Bible in schools, power being given to the School Committees, with the sanction of the Board, to allow clergymen of any denomination to use the various schoolrooms for the purpose of imparting religious education at such stated times, and under such regulations, as may be imposed by the Board" — but afterwards withdrew it, and the remaining words of the original motion were then negatived on the voices. THE HIGH SCHOOL. Mr. Fish moved — "That whereas the establishment of Grammar Schools in various parts ot the Province renders it unnecessary that the Dunedin High School for Boys should be continued at the public expense : And whereas the maintenance of the said school at the expense of the State involves an expenditure for which there is no adequate return, and prevents the establishment in Dunedin of one or more proprietary schools of a class quite equal to the High School — which there is good reason to believe would otherwise be established : It is therefore resolved — Ist. That the High School for Boys be discontinued, and that adequate compensation be paid to the teachers for loss of office. 2nd. That the High School buildings be applied to such other purpose as the Government shall deem lit. 3rd. That the Rector's residence be either sold or leased to any individual or proprietary desirous of establishing a highclass school for boys upon a suitable scale. 4th. That one of the District Schools be raised to the rank of a Grammar School in terms of the Grammar Schools Ordinance, and a portion of the expenditure heretofore appropriated to the High School be applied to this purpose. sth. That a respectful Address be transmitted to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that he may be pleased to give effect to the foregoing resolutions." Mr. Fish spoke at considerable length upon the motion. Mr. Stout opposed it in an able speech. Several other members, for* and against- the motion, addressed the House, ana the following division was taken at midnight :— Ayes, 12 — Messrs Bastings (teller), Brown J. C, Browne G. F. C, Clarke R., Daniel, De Latour, Fish (teller)," Hazlett, Rogers, Shand, and Sumpter. Noes 25— Messrs. Allan, Clark H., Cumming, Driver, Groen, Haggitt, Ireland, Lumsden, Menzies, Mollison, M'Glashan, M'Kellar, M'Kenzie, M'Leaiij M - Neil, Oliver, Reid, Reynolds, Roberts ' (teller), Stout (teller), Turnbull, Turton, Webster, Wilson, and Vo O u.

Wbbnesdat, 27th May, rSIITIOKS. Several petitions were presented, amongst which was one by Mr. Hazlett from inhabitants of the district of Alexandra, and from the Mayor and Council of Clyde, asking for • an extension of the railway from Tuapeka to Roxburgh. PBOOIiAXATION OP HBW HOTfDBBDS. • The following Message (No. 14) from His | Honor the Superintendent was received : — Message No. 14 invited the co-operation of the Provincial Council in recommending the Governor lo proclaim the following addi- .

tional Hundreds, to be named respectively : Pukerau, Waikaka, Waikoikoi, Waikaia,Spottis, and Dart Hundreds, containing 50,600 acres. In a memorandum by the Chief Surveyor, it is stated that Pukerau Hundred — 8000 acres (including 3000 acres on deferred payments) is on. M'lntyre's run. Waikaka Hundred— l4,loo acres (including 6800 acres on deferred payments) on M'lntyre's and M'Nab's run — lies principally in the valley of that name. Waikoikoi Hundred — 8300 acres (including 1600 ocreß on deferred payments) on Logan's run — is part of the Tapanui Plains, and lies between the Pomahaka river and Waikoikoi stream. Waikaia Hundred — 6000 acres (including 2000 acres on deferred payments) on Fielding's run, is the first open country on the banks of the Waikaia River, after leaving the large birch forest. Spottis Hundred — 6800 acres (including 2500 acres on deferred payments) on Glassford's run — is the level country extending back from the Manuherikia River at Blacks to near the diggings at Drybread and Tinkers. Dart Hundred — 7400 acres (including 2500 acres on deferred payments) on Butement's run — covers the country between the Dart and Rees rivers, and between the Diamond Lake and Lake Wakatipu. • LEWIS TOBIAS STEAD. Mr. M'Dermid asked— "Whether the Government have inquired into the correctness of certain statements mode in the ' Guardian ' newspaper of 25th May respecting Lewis Tobias Stead, now a prisoner in Dunedin Gaol : more particularly as to whether the gaoler, Mr. Caldwell. had any right to retain Stead in custody by virtue of a Coroner's warrant?" — and the Provincial Solicitor replied to the first part of the question that Government had not made any inquires into the correctness of the ' Guardian's' statements'; neither had they inquired more particularly wlietlier tlie gaoler bad any right to retain Stead in custody. It would be a most dangerous precedent for the Government to inquire into the correctness of statements connected with a matter over which they have no control. This was not a Government matter at all. Tf it -was expected that the Provincial Government should sit I in judgment over the Judge of the Supreme Court, and decide whether his conduct in issuing a capias ad satis/uciendum against a a debtor was legal, the Provincial Government might have a great deal more work thrown upon it than he should care for it to undertake. So far, as he understood it, this matter came up before Mr. Justice Chapman in Chambers, who then told the debtor he could appoint whoever he pleased to sign the warrant ; that he had instructed the coroner to do so, and the application for liabeas corpus was therefore of no avail. This question had therefore, been decided already. Furthermore, if they wished to go into the facts, he thought no member of the Council would like to assent to this proposition, that a man without means should bring as many actions as he chose against another man, involving him in all sorts of expenses, and that the latter is to have no remedy. He believed this action was wholly misconceived. The fact was that the document for which the action was brought was said to have been burnt, and a copy of it— he knew that of his own knowledge— was furnished to Mr. btead. He ( Mr Stout) considered the action a vexatious one, and if the whole facts were gone into, it would be seen that the person really injured had not been Mr. Stead— but the person against whom he had brought his action. (( )h.) At all events he ( Mr. Stout) knew more about it than those members who so loudly cried "Oh,"

BILIS. Mr. Stout moved the second reading of the Clyde Corporation Borrowing Powers Extension Bill. He explained that the Bill would give the Clyde Corporation power to borrow £20,000 on the security of the rates, and on anticipated revenue. The Bill was read a second time. SVSDA.Y TKAPPIC. Mr. Tornbull moved — " That this Council, having considered the various petitions relative to the Sunday traffic on the Dunedin and Port Chalmers Railway, is of opiuion that the number of trains running on Sundays should, except in very exceptional and urgent cases, be limited to one train each way before 9 o'clock in the morning, and another each way between the hours of 4 and 6 in the afternoon." Mr. Or. F. C. Browne moved the following as an amendment : — " That, in the opinion of this Council, all traffic on railways and public roads shall be abolished." After a lengthened discussion, Mr. Browne withdrew bis amendment. Mr. Wilson then moved the following mendment : — " That this Council, having considered the various petitions relative to the Sunday traffic on the Dunedin and Port Chalmers Railway, is of opiuion that such traffic is not conducive to the welfare of the inhabitants of this province, morally or physically, and that the running of trains should be discontinued on Sundays, except in cases of emergency." On a division, there voted for this amendment 13, and against it 25. It was therefore declared lost. After another was, moved by Mr. Reeves and lost, Mr. Haggit then moved, as an amendent on the original motion, " That, in the opinion of this Council, the running of Sunday trains should be continued as at present, except that a discretion be left to the Executive to run additional trains, if it should be found expedient." 'On a division, there voted on the amendment — Ayes, 20 ; noes, 18. Amendments were the moved by Mr. M'Kenzie, Mr. Henderson, and Mr. Mollison, all of which were lost. Mr. Oliver moved that all the words after the word "present" in the substantive motion of Mr. Haggitt be struck out. The substantive motion would then real, " That, in the opinion of this House, the running of Sunday trains should be continued as at present." The words above referred to were struck out. The Hon. the Speaker then put the motion as follows : — " That, in the opinion of this House, the running of Sunday trains should be continued as at present. Mr. De Latour moved that the House do now adjourn. Hon. members should not be asked to deal definitely with the question when in a state of worry. Mr. Stout pointed out that, if the hon. member for Mount Ida's motion was carried the whole question would be shelved. It was not the adjournment of the debate he proposed. The motion for adjournment was lost on a division. The House afterwards divided on Mr. Oliver's amendment, which was carried? by 19 votes to 13. The following is the division list : — Ayes : Messrs. Bastiugs, Gk F. C. Browne, R. Clarke, Daniel, Davie.Fish (teller), Green, Haggitt, Hallenstein, Hazlett, Ireland, Lumsden, M'Glashan, Olrner, Reeves, Rogers, Stout (teller), Webster, Wood. Noks: Messrs. Allen, J..C. Brown H. Clark, Cumming, De Latour, Menziea (teller,), Mollison, M'Kellar (teller), M'Kenzie, M'Noil, SumpteiC Teschem&ker, Wilson. The Council adjourned at 20 minutes to 1 o'clock until 2 p.m. to-day.

The New York Catholic Foundling Asylum has rescued 5000 infants from an unnatural death, and has enabled 5000 women to rise from misery and degradation worse than death ; and although all tfiis has been done in a very few years, the State of New York, to its shame, refuses to aid in the. meritorious work, for no other reason than that the conductors of the asylum are Catholics,