MB. VOGEL'S SPEECH.

Tuapeka Times, Volume VI, Issue 320, 10 January 1874, Page 3

MB. VOGEL'S SPEECH.

His Honor the Superintendent after- proposing tho health of the Han. Mr. Yogel, in *lughVehy>gistiospce > h said s — Before; ait' tingdown, he had to intimate that he had deceived a note informing him that, the citizens of Dunedin had subscribed £500 to be invested in a piece of plate a& a mark of the appreciation ©f the value of Mr. Vogel's public services, and a& a token «f° their personal esteem. — (Loud and prolonged cheers.) The Hon.. Mr. Yogel, in rising to respond k^ffas receive!! with much enthusiasm, the eheeansg lasting several minutes. He elpressed his. inability to depict in terms at all iatisf actory to bippself his sense' of the kindness he had receive^,th«6 evening— kindness which- was but the successor of kindnesses, in forgone bg\ Jf o on^ felt xsuxct deeply than himself that whatever&uecess he might meet ■with could never be- di^ocjatjed fifOßft his. convection with this Provide, and City. However long Hftght b^ the iHervafe between his xisfts to Pwnediu, the %\ty recoUectioa he l«d of his, intimate conne^en ygjth Otago, and the «apy kindnesses, hv tad met vith vithin itcoijja aever be Tarea^etk It -was % source of' satisfaction to hin. to find the people so unanimous- as. to.- thy p^eratUng prosperity* The»e wwb uofc » more^lgnificant ''evidence of the dißereace between present condition oi the Coloey «ad its addition |» dajz gone by< With ih» Chaim^ j^ Relieved there would bo a se-action fro^ tb^ present splendid prosperiW^ but it «a» fckely to take, the fona el individual suj^j.. ing than <£ suffering or loss, tft the Colony a vrkote. Sw» wight* from want of wis dcia ex- from oyev spe<mlatien> go. to th» wall, "b«t the »»Euterig£ wealth of the Colony and ' SProrißce^ uouWk sofc \» He felt gratified nt seeing bohnb- of his political "«f»pon<m%9 parescntv ?erwnally> he- dad not thiofe he- cobM say they tcece' opponents. — (dxeese.) He >>w aot conscious, of any reason why he should ■wlfew Ife occasioned per•Bonal wxtogOßfein, Vu* no CQ p flC j. QjUfl .ti xa ,t ) •erea, amongst political opposition cause to. coßipfeunQf want of j^rsonal t»asid.ei»tioiu— (Applause.) It vm. tru*. Ie arced hfe. poKticaJ career to Ihiaedin* hu. thought of himself as. a chM of Dunedin— (japplause^andi W Kked to. think that his political rfee-hai3 I >to> some- extent, been comso#nsurate, 'or had gone side-by>side with the progress of the City.. This was tV fir B t epportitnity he had had, since he had. Veu Premier, of speaking to the people of t't^ €olony, and it was-Trith a.fe»Hpg of gratification, that lie asked, bere i» h» political cradle, to be allowed the opportiwifcy of so dtoing. S&ice the last sesaLoo, of the €teneral As«mbly>, one of the. worst diffleuitte* the Ckor etnment had ht& to. labor under, £n the ■JbsefßJe of *n opportunity for such an utter■aice^t* the 'btmeob h& been the m&representotiops- tim fc«t Po*P 0 * fflrtk w tOt t^ l ?- of the Colony. Because certain ' gentleißetthid chese* to enter upon various »rob>(Q« or speculations as to> whit might be tne- 4«debt«dße«B *ef the colony in certain efrcTMi*tWicw;;ifr had been assumed in some •phwdu Bnd'e^cuJly omfcnde the Colony, that %»wre- ignflrtat of "our indebtedness He ytompromlri. to as follows.

The amount of our debt on the 30th June last (after deducting the amount in New Zealand securities on account of Sinking Fund) was— On Colonial account, £6,465, 9(K) ; on Provincial account, £3, 156,200 ; or, together, £9,622,100. AsfarastheProvinoialindebtedness is concerned, the amount is, no doubt, ultimately a Colonial liability ; but, at the same time, it is secured, primarily, upon the land revenue of the Colony; and of the nature of that security you may gain an adequate idea when I tell you that, between the Ist July, 1872, and the 20th December, 1873, the land revenue of the Colony, exclusive of re.oe.ipts on amount of gold and Native, amountedto£l,37o,ooo. Whenyouknowthat in a year and a-half the land revenue, subject to the exceptions named, yielded £1,370,000, you need not, I think, be fearful as to a liability of a little over £3,000,000, with such a security at its back. — (Applause. ) There remained on the 30th June to be negotiated,

£2,352,600 of loans already authorised up to June last have been negotiated, of £11,974,000, Beyond that amount there was required tocomplete the raUwaysauthorised up to the end of the session of 1872, on 767 milea of line in all, £1^386,900 ; and adding that amount, the total will he £13,860,900. But that is not the amount of ourpreseutindebtedneaa. It is the amount of the debt that will exist when 767 miles of the railway have been completed j when £1,000,000 has been expended on immigration j when £2,000,000 has been spent in acquiring Native lands ; when £400,000 has been devoted to making roads in the North Island; and when £300,000 haa been spent in works upon tKe goldfielda. Then, but not until then, the total indebtedness of the Colony may be estimated at £13,860,900. The debt will include £6,000,000 for publio works, of which, at the date I have mentioned, only some £2,000,000 had been expended. When the question is raised, what will be our- position when all that money is expended? I say that no one is entitled to%ake the present position of the Colony as a test, and to ignore the f act.that by the. expenditure of £4,000,000 on public works during the time that has to elapse, the prosperity of the Colony must naturally be increased, and a state of things be created different from that which now exists. — (Applause.) It is absurd to suppose — if anybody does suppose — that a trunk railway through eaoh island is to be constructed for £3,000,000 or £3,000,000. By the time the trunk one is completed, with the various branches already commenced, the public debt must be very much increased : ;but it will be a misfortune to the country, if you. fail to see that you will then have good value for your money, in the immense addition to your population, and the means of traversing the country from end to end which will then have been provided. — (Applause.) What I have next to say will at any rate not be uninteresting, as an evidence of what we may look for in the future. I have obtained a return of the revenue received during a little lees than six months— from the Ist July to the 27fcb TW,f»nhA» — tmrp+liav witH »<.- b\LT*>* tac corresponding half-years. From the Ist July to the 31st Dederuber, 18?0, the receipts into the Consolidated Fund were £474,000; 1871, £485,000,1872, £494,0005; and for 1873 for a few days less than the halfyear, the receipts reached £625,000 j being an increase over the corresponding period of last year of £131,000, or at the rate of £263,000 a year. I ask you, then, to recollect that if we have to pay additional interest because of an increased amount of borrowed money, -we have additional' means out of which to pay it.— (Applause.) The Land Revenne returns are yet more remarkable, as aa indication of the prosperity of the country. In 1870. the land revenue amounted to £191,000 ; for 1871, it was £230,000 ; in 1872, it reached £300,000 i but for 1873 it was no less than £1.1 16,000. Tn faot. the receipts, during 1873 exceeded those of the previous three years. — (Applause.) Before. I leave the question of the financial position of the Colony, I will ask you to recollect that the true indication of the pressure of public debt is not to b& found in any mere statement of figures of amount without considering their relative obligation . The mere amount of debt tells nothing ; the annual amount which ispaid as interest fells, nothing; nor does even the division of that amount amongst a set number of persons, tell anything, unless you go also into the question of the means out of which it is to be paid. A person whaearns£soa year may be less able to, afford to pay £5, than another who earns £70 may be abletaaffordtopay £10. 1 speak not unadvisedly when I say that, in dealing with the question of the pressure of a debt, you have to consider first the number of persons, who have i to. pay, and then the. average amount of the earnings of those persons out of which they have to. satisfy the requirements of the revenue;. Then, aad then only,, you are able to arrive at a fair conclusion. When that test is applied you find that New Zealand does not by any means compare badly with other Colonies op even with larger- nations. ! I went into- this question very fully last session, and those who wtU caxefoUy study it will find in "■ Hansard " a long dissertation ttpoo it. I will now simply state to you a few figures representing conclusions to which I came. Taking the amount of the interest on our debt, exclusive of that for public works and Provincial, the charge amounts, as far as I have been able to. ascertain, to I*2 per cent, of the average earnings of the population j inclusive of public works, but still excluding Provincial, the annual charge is 1© per cent*, or, including-both. public- works and Provincial; the anntaj charge- amounts to 2*4 per cent, on the average- earnings of the population. But I ask you to recollect that in such a percentage of debts it is. fairer that we should take osretebts winb the amounts for public works- and Pros^nci&l, because when & comparison is Btade with, other countries, if the amounts for public works and: Provincial are included there is an element to meet it j that is to say, there is a return from public works and! front land!. With some exceptions, these are not elements of revenue in countries -with which we have to compare our- public: debts; and when we take the amount of our debt, omitting- that portion of ib which is for works which elsewhere are provided by private enterprise*, the annual charge », as I have stated;, 12 per- cent, on the- average earnings of the population. It we make a comparison' with the United Kingdom, we find: that the average there » 2*& per cent, of the average earnings of the population. In the United .States, it is a* 1 ?} in Russia, 2"&* in France, h-3- ; in Austria, 2*2 j and in the GSerman; Em-

C%thesttbj. c feof immjgiratiott he said: i— Witt^in the. b*£, ffe w montha we- have organised a system otjiree itttmigrafciou^ excepting only fox thftNtip^jation that "the greatest possible care, shoW exercised! inthejselectioaof immigßattts^gj do>hope fcfeat this, system vM bear xesy g\at fruits*. I find that during the last fch*ee\n On th& the the- Bumber of sominaffedi uxamw^g. has. Wn: — October,. 1,173^ November 2223:, D«*eiaber,. 2;339 ;. and ife wiltbfc grattbjmg to you tufcear that, of the- last iv|jmj>er-, \fg6, or more tT&an one-half, have beeen- noininauj d within, the pKXTioce oi Ortagc One- oi &c priaeipal paWic objects that I had! i» co«»i% to. thfe, Proviaee^ wag- my great desire- to. makea?rangejaen*a with, the Provincial Gotto. take charge of tfec manage™^t of tmjmgrante wHioxt tba Ptovinee.. fkrongejaaettil I had beeo uoabte to, enecß o^cojn-espondencei. In fact, the mat- * "wr 1 $I*B altogether- wrong.. ' We. w.er& general satisfaction felfethrox < ,i l __ 1 t i,^-, -jxl; -and it will be felt tteittSlS and the Colony— at the HbenSC^TiSie meaner- in which the inunigwnte v_ry, c Suiat were received! on their arrival^Li^•dqgr nwnang.— {Ajgjl»use^ Thk hau^jl

most the first act of the Provincial Government since they assumed charged of immigration. I have the greater pleasure in speaking of the very complete manner for which they made provision for every difficult case. The untiring manner in which the Supflrindent devoted himself to the work, from Saturday morning until the immigrants had been lodged in the Depot— talking of and attending to nothing else, in fact — demands my warmest admiration. I may add that, speaking generally, it is to the aid of the Superindent we owe the very gratifying circumstance most gratifying to us, who are not tied down by any particular national prejudice, but desire to live in friendship with all nations — that the oaptain of the French warship, the Vire, went to the rescue of the shipwrecked immigrants. — (Loud applause.) The nobly, ready way in which the appeal to him was met by the captain of the Vire- - hia prompt sacrifice of holiday engagements and all consideration of self— the facility with which he got his vessel out of dock, and hastened on his errand of mercy — all this demands from us, not only to the captain and- to his officers, but to the whole French nation, a mark of our signal esteem and admiration,— (Loud applause.) The Government are quite conscious that it is absolutely necessary that concurrently with public works, immigration should be stimulated to the utmost: Depend upon it, that is a cardinal point of the policy of the present Government. — (Applause.)

After referring to the Public Works department, the Land Transfer Act and Annuities, and the public Trustee, Mr Yogel thus touched upon Provincial borrowing :— • | - I dare say it would be very interesting to many now present, and to many in other parts of the Colony also, if I were able to indicate precisely the opinions of the Government upon the manner in -which' this question should be dealt with hereafter. But. lam not going to do anything of the kind. I shall only say that I think there is great virtue in the old doctrine of " leaving well alone ;" and that I think a very great deal of attention should be paid to the representations which are made, that, by unduly forcing forward the prosecution of public works, there is liability of interfering with private enterprise, by the absorption of too much of the labor which should be available for the prosecution of that enterprise,- I think, it is worthy of consideration that it will be well, when those large works of which the Colony has charge are being brought to a close, and a certain amount of labor is consequently disengaged, that there should be other works ready to be proceeded with, so as to take up the disengaged labor. It is well, too; that we should recollect that, whatever may be the intrinsic credit of any country or Colony, that credit is liable to be disturbed by questions wholly outside the scope and influence of the country or Colony concerned. We should recollect that this Colony has assumed very large responsibilities, which it ha 3 the rigfc* to df*s»ro +o. oo« o-ix-ic^i üm »©tore increasing or extending them. But, even admitting and recognizing all these considerations!, I by no means desire you should understand it to "be my opinion that we should lay down an arhitraTy ml© by which to deny to places interested the construction of works which their own local conditions render imperatively necessary. I have wished merely to' impress upon you that, in coming to a decission upon this question, the Government will be guided by conservative considerations.

O« the laud laws of Otago Mr. Yogel spoke as follows * —

I am afraid you will think that what I am now about to say is to some extent ungracious. Some may parhaps think that I ought to say nothing which is not absolutely flattering to the province ; but I believe that many will hold & different opinion, and will look upon it as a duty that, if I have strong opinions upon a subject which concerns the province. I should oxpress them, leaving- you to give such weight as you may think right to the opinions when expressed, I cannot close my remarks without asking you to allow me to say a few words upon the question oi the land laws of Otago. The time is long past when I either assumed the right or the inclination to exercise any local influence in the matter. But I have never disguised my feeling upon the subject ; and when your last Land Bill was before the Assembly, I went out of my way to express my opinion upon it, and there I left the matter. I did not attempt to exercise any influence, but I merely stated my opinions for what they were worth. But I cannot avoid asking those who may do me the favour of listening tome,, or who may hereafter read what I say, to make inquiry into the question. I feel that the present land laws of Ofcago are wasteful and extravagant, in their nature, and do not answer the ends for which they were proposed. I also feel that lam doing no more than discharging an absolute duty in now speaking upon the matter j because, although I am in my position of a member of the General Government, I have no right of direct interference with ib. I cannot help thinking that, as the author of the policy to which you have done homage to-night, it is. to me a very great disappointment ; for one of the results -which I had promised myself from it — a larger appreciation of the value of the lands of the- Crown- — has not been seen within this province, I find that in Otago a man can buy land for the same price as the earlier settlers paid f osr it about 15 or 20 years ago. Ifc fo true that he could then have a much 'larger area of selection, and he could more readily take land available for- cultivation. But it is not to be forgotten that at the present day th& purchaser is able to select land which is practie&Uy much nearer to> the seaport, and the- produce of which can be nrach, mare readily takes to a market. You have not only made-roods^ and so> opened up the land, Ixajb have brought into- the- country a market, because, of the people fcltat have been brought out to. it* Aad is not the- land now wort! more than it was 15 or 2Oyears ago ? It is not difficult to show that we are eTen new selling land for half tbdtexrice at -which, it was soldi long ago-. A great; deal of fetnet t& bought with; purchased money— no. matter -whether the money- is- borrowed for it or no* ,- and i owing to the reduction of the rate of interest, ; which fe rarefy Tery Ettte- mote than half of | what it was at the period I have named, you [ may now, by measra of the- same yearly pay1 meats as interest, purchase- two. acres of land, i where before- you. could purchase but one. Is : that, I ask, showing an increased appreciation [of the value- of land? But you may say, "It • will pay to. give away the land if we get good ! settlement for it." I grant you, it may pay | to give- land away where- settlement is- urgently needed!, when: a eoumtry is entirely ; undeveloped and where there is- plenty of ; land to give atway. But I say it is not fair to ; those who, by their own exertions, have given ' an- artificial vajtwe fco> land in this colony, to , sell it bow for th«- same price as it was sold to i the original settlers- Whether you are ob!Ugedto> me or not, those who. take any iuter- ; est in the- subject may. believe me, that I have ; token a great deal of trouble- to inquire into it. ; There- may be- those who will say, " ©ranted, ' we have sacrificed the landt Wfe fch* result i shows- that hfl t v« r promoted settlement, and we- are quite- eonten* wifehi the- result.. 1 * Bh* I /km bounds t>o> say, from- tile result Tichjichi I • hWe- arrived 1 »fe, that from whatever shape- or for&aini whfchi you examine the- question, a comWfsom -with, the policy of the- neighbouring pwwince- of Canterbury, without fre?seltect&k and land at £$ an acre, shows a resuJfc v^ry. much against this, province of Otago.. \will skate toyeu some- figures which* are, as I tlKnJfc, absolutely convincing- o» thepoint. It i^ayrbe said that each figures; are nob a proof oi anything' — that statistics may be tortured' in a particular- direction ,- but when there is a large-array- of facts and! figures, all pointing i* one direction, I think that to a logical; mind the eonchisioa must be- irjresistiblev. I tod, then, that the first difference- between your land laws and those ol I Canterbury U that they are- rather mow

favourable to the production of wool, and much less favourable to the production of agricultural produce ; much more favorable to the revenue, and much less beneficial to settlement. Of course, in considering this question, I must ask you to remember the difference in the size of the two provinces. Taking Otago and Southland together, I find that the area is 16,141,232 acres, as against 8,693,027 for Canterbury—in other words, #hat one is about twice the size of the other. The present population of Otago is 81,015, while that of Canterbury is 53,700, The wool exported during- the nine months ending June 30, 1873, which may really be treated as the year, because the export of the year is almost wholly within that period, represented for Otago and Southland a value of £1,167,000 ; and for Canterbury, £762,000. The land revenue, exclusive of gold from January Ist, 1872, to December 20th, 1873, was for Otago, £441,030; for Canterbury, £762,000. It will be said, perhaps, " Oh, but Otago exports grain very largely, and so it gets revenue in return." The figures, however, do not show in Otago's favour ; for taking the exports of grain, including flour, barley, oats, wheat, and malt, for the year ending 30fch September, 1873, the value in the case of Otago was £62,180, while in the case of Canterbury it was £90,163. Still it may be said, " But Canterbury had to import a great deal more grain than Otago to support its population." Again, the figures do not show such to be the case, for while Otago imported grain of all kinds, including malt, to the value of £18,000, the similar imports to Canterbury amounted only to £9,800. When I pass from figures referring to a recent period, and take the whole period of the history of the two provinces, the one province having had an unvarying land law, and in the other the land laws having been almost- from the first, or, at least, for the last twelve years, a sourco of the most bitter feelings, I find that the total number of acres alienated up to the 20th November, 1873, in Otago. was 2,264,000, as against 1,600,000 in Canterbury. The total export of wool up to the 30th September was — from Otago to the value of £7,510,000, against £6,495,000 in the case of Canterbury : thus showing a slight excess in favour of Otago. But if we take agricultural produce, we find that the total exported to the same date frOm Otago amounted only to £321,000, while from Canterbury the value exported was £773,000. Seeing that the larger number of acres has been alienated in Otago, you may say our Hundred system has done that for us It has given us at least a greater number of landholders than is the case in Canterbury. We have not got here a bloated land aristocracy. Upon the face of the figures this may appear to be the case, hut notwithstanding the greater^ number of acres alienated in Otago we tind from the latest agricultural statistics that there were in Otago only 3,705 seperate holdings existing, over on a a™* **» a~*™s — a,ffair>=* 3 ejy m Canterbury ; and finally, I hnd that in Otago the land broken up, but not under crop, amounts to 46,000 acres, as against 48,000 in Canterbury ; while land absolutely uuder crop in Otago amounts to 305,000 acres, as against 3 1 8, 000 in Canterbury. It is really worth your while to look carefully at these figures. I say that you are giving away here immense wealth, and vhat do you get in return? If you were getting increased ""settlement, or increased production, or if you were even to appeal to any form of sympathy, there might be some reason for maintaining a system, which has been a source of so much dissatisfaction. But when, after many years, you find nothing to show of the advantage of the system, I ask you to consider whether it should not be one of the results of the public works policy to indnce those who are in charge of the government of the province, to reconsider tho c^noetion of t.KA i-at»^ laws, with the view of adopting some such simple form as that which has been adapted in the province of Canterbury. At any rate, I ask those who do not agree with me, to believe that I have not gn«e out of my way iv order merely to say things that may be disagreeable, but that my object has been solely ta induce thougthful persons to give some consideration ta what I hold a very important question.

Mr. Yogel then spoke strongly on the necessity for preserving the present and planting new State forests, and the adventages of establishing trade with the South Sea Islands. In concluding, he said : — This testimonial will be one which I Bhall prize very highly, and which my children, and children's, children, to whom it will descend, will also value. I feel it will he a lasting reminder to me of the connection existing between me and'this. City. I.do not shrink from saying that the great aspiration of my mind has been for some time past to take a humble share in making the Colony of New Zealand the first Colony of the Australasian group. — (Cheers.) Many friends I see around me to-night whom I have met in this City and in this Province* I do> hope, as they watch the future development, itself, they will, if they can do so with justice, endeavor to identify me with that development, while it will ever be a source of pride for me to own that it is to the citizens of Dunedin I owe the appreciation that was the cause- of the commencement of my public career.