THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

Tuapeka Times, Volume V, Issue 240, 5 September 1872, Page 5

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

[B. Electric Telegraph.]

August 27. Mr MacancLrow, while a _ _ lifctiag that the administration of public works and immigration had been unsatisfactory, was certa n it would be equally unsatisfactory if entrusted to Mr btafford or Mr Wood. Much of its failure was due to the action of the Legislature itself, and much to want of experience in matters of the kind. Any Government would have made errors ; but if the Colony had to pay for those errors, it would have to pay twice over if a new and inexperienced Ministry assumed office. The Legislature had made a great blunder originally in undertaking the practical admnishration of the policy. The Provincial Legislatures could have directed the administration much more effectively, but the blunder was that of the House, and he would not endeavor to shift tho responsibility on to Ministers, or make them scapegoats. He believed that the public works would have been quite as well performed by local contractors as by Mr Brogden ; and in future, no doubt, as had been promised, the public tender Byatem would be adopted. If Mr Stafford now assumed office, he would be bound to fulfil the engagements entered into by the present Government with hit Brogdea. Mr Reid's statements regarding the discrepancies between the Engineers' estimates and the contract pripes had staggered him ; but Mr Beeves's manly explanation had shown that the discrepancies were not so great as he had supposed. If a little extra price had b:en given to Mr Brogden, he believed that it would be abuudantly recouped to the country by collateral advantages resulting from the connection of his fir* with the Colony. He believed it would result in the introduction of millions of English capital to develops the mineral resources of the Colony. He defended M r Vogel's mission to Australia, and the San Francisco mail contract, saying that it was not Mr Vogel's fault if the Victorian Parliament rrf used to ratify the latter. He agreed with the third resolution, but he had no confidence in the sincerity of those by whom it was propose-!. It did not go far enough. He would throw the wbo'e responsibility of the control and administration .of public works and immigration on the Provincial Councils. The only way now left in which to remedy the blunder made in not doing this in the first instance, was for the Government to avail themselves of the assist ance of the Provincial authorities and tbt-ir staff*. The resolution was framed Bim|.ily to catch the Provincial votes, but the matter really at issue was only a personal one. He would not agree to hand over the administration of the policy to its determiued opponents — to* those who had beeu unwillingly forced to accept it to save their seats. With reference to immigration, he took upon himself the whole responsibility of the appointments of Mesrr.3 Birch and Seaton, having urged those appoiutm nts on the Government iv his capacity of a member of that House. He believed the appointments of those gentlemen were useful and judicious ones. If Messrs Birch and Seaton were political opponents of Air Reid's, it was their misfortune, not their fault ; and that fact would not interfere with their doing good service as immigratirn agents. As for the appointments being unpopular in Otago — if the Angel Gabriel had appointed aiy officer, his appointment would be as unpopular as these. He condemned the defection of the Wellington members as being ungrateful to a Ministry that had obtained obloquy in other parts of the Colony by assisting them. If the present Government chastised them with whips, Mr Stafford would do so with scor-ioas. He saw no reason why the Otago Provincial Council- should not vote the expenditure of the public works of the Province, and control and administer them by its own Provincial staff. Mr Wakefield supported the resolutions. Mr Carrington (Tar naki) admitted that the administration had been unsatisfactory, but said that was inevitable He approved of the proposed general amnesty, and the restoration of the confiscated lancU. Mr Bluett (Canterbury) opposed the resolutions. He criticised the Opposition speeches, and ridiculed the proposed new Ministry. Mr Kolleston (Canterbury) disclaimed any desire of a seat in the Ministry. He quoted from John Stuart Mill against an excessive centralisation power as tending to decrease self-reliance and the love of liberty. The proper principle was the greatest dissemination of power consistent with efficiency. The central Government in this Colony was endeavoring to absorb too much authority and administration. The only part of the Colony where there had been any substantial results from the railway scheme was Canterbury, where the Province executed the works, subject to central supervision. He condemned the habitual absence of Ministers from the seat of government, and also the' system under which one Minister controlled the funds while simultaneously incurring expenditure for contracts. The Central Government was becoming a departmental autocracy. The conduct of Ministers- last year respecting the Brogden contracts was disingenuous. The terms of the contract said " the Governor has not authorised," and that " the Hon. Julius Yogel is not empowered," but he had nevertheless agreed. Instead of the Government confessing that it had exceeded its powers, and asking the House to ratify what it had done, it tried to force one of the alternative contracts upon the House. The contracts now entered into would more than absorb the sum authorised. The contracts were let for L 160.000 in excess of the amounts authorised by the House of Representatives. The Government allowed the contractors S per cent, merely for writing their names, notwithstanding the large expense of the Agent-General's department. With regard to immigration, the Government appeared merely desirous of attracting people to the country. He would condemn as unconstitutional the course adopted by the Premier with regard to the Vative Minister. It simply meant that the Native difficulty was our master, and showed the necessity of removing the Native administration from a central House, and constituting a kind of Native Brogden. The condition of • affairs afforded a strong argument in favor of insular separation. It was necessary to define the respective functions of the General Government and the Provinces, so that they might run in parallel grooves without collision ; but the Government shirked this question. '?hc country was paying its current expenditure out of borrowed money. He wanted a thorough reform in the administration, especially in the civil service, and a healthy sympathy between the General ' Government and the Provinces opened up. The Brogden con. tracts were creating a power behind the throne greater than the throne itself. He did not want a merely nominal head of the Government practising a policy at variance with everything- he professed, leaving the . Colony a mass of debt from the three million loan, and returning and getting into bffioe under promises which he had falsified in every respect.' He gave the Colonial Treasurer credit for honesty of purpose and energy ; but looked upon him a* the impersonation of all jbhat was reckless and mischievous. The time: would come when the people would regard Mr Yogel as one of the greatest evils that ever befel toy country* lie did n«t witici-.

pate ruin to the country from the failure of the Public Works scheme, for it would t ike two or three reckless gambling Colonial Treason era to ruin the country. He would vote for the resolutions.

Mr E. Richardson (Christchurch City) defended the Brogdeu. contracts and general admiuwtration,

Mr Walter Johnston (Manawatu) con demned the Government administration, and announced bis intention of voting for the resolutions.

Mr Peacock (Lyttelton) opposed the resolutions. Sir David Monro moved the adjournment of the debate.

August 28. Sir David Monro resumed the no-con fidence debate to to-day, and supported the resolutions.

Mr White (Hokitika) severely attacked Messrs Luckie and Harrison, and said if the latter were more indepen-lent and less servile in his support of the Ministry, he would be of more benefit to bis constituent". He said Mr Luck ie was a mere tool of the Minis try ; and attacked the Government patronage, especially of the Press. He said that the Press Association Was a mere Government institution under the immediate con r trol of two Ministers of the Crown, and Mr Harrison was an unscrupulous supporter of the Ministry. He affirmed that attempts had been made to influence his vote by means of the wires.

Mr Yogel said, when he visited Melbourne, the manager of the Argus desired to arrange with the Government of New Zealand to supply the Press with telegrams which he expacted to obtain from Reuter when the cable opened to England, and asked • 500 a-year. Mr Yogel told him he was not empowered nor authorised to treat with him for she Government, but recognised the value of the connection ; and if toe Government would not treat with him, he would purchase the privilege himself. It appeared from inquiries which he (Mr Yogel) instituted, that no arrangements had been made for special New Zealand news, and it was arranged, if Mr Yogel and the A rgus came to terms that special New Zealand telegrams should be procured from London. The Cabinet refused to take up tho matter, which then devolved upon him (Mr Yogel), who formed a Pn.ss Association. With reference to its being a one sided character it was sufficient to any that it included papers of all shades of opinion. Already a large number of papers had obtained news from the Pre-8 Association. 'I he evening journals were exclnded, but negotiations were going on to take them in.

White: Will the hon. member state who are (he directors and who the managing directors ?

Mr Yogel said the hon. member had no right to ask such a question. The hon. nr mber for Waikonaiti had been dwelling in an atmosphere of exclusiveness. Only recently he said he would rather see sheep than men in the Middle Island. He rea<i extracts from a forme- speech of Mr Holieston's, condemning Mr Stafford in strong terms.

Mr Rolleston : History repeats itself. Mr Yogel : Yes ; and the hon. member repeats himself. Mr Rolleston had nev- r agreed with aay member of the House. His perpetual career was one of opposition. The decision regarding the Brogden contracts hal been come to long before the House met. The decision of the Government regar ling the Wanganui Bridge was perfectly^ right, and for the interests of the Colony. Mr Stafford never factions'y opposed the Government. His speech was suspiciously moderate. No Government could have long existence in this Colony. From time to time those whose wants were not satisfied became enemies. The Government's position was much complicated by its proximity -with Provincial Governments. Wellington had mow gone into Opposition, because the Government refused to grant, a preposterous claim for Native rents. The Brogdon contracts had involved a very large amount of labor, and were thought in London and here almost perfect. He twitted Mr Stafford with bringing down such measures as the Road Boards Bill, and then withdrawing them. He denied that Mr Stafford was the author of the railway scheme. He traced the history of the policy, and said he would explain the allowances for his trip to England and Australia, and if the House pronounced them excessive, he would refund. He deprecated the aspersions and suspicions against the character of Ministers of thß Crown. While in London he devoted himself entirely to the public business, and only received LI 200 allowance : ,Mr Fitzherbert received L3OOO. He quoted from the speech of Mr Stafford at Timaru, advocating the construction of railways on the guarantee principle. He had refused to accept Mr Brogden's tender for the Invercargill and Mataura Railway until the Government Engineer went over the prices with Mr Brogden, and an agreement was come to. Mr Brogden wanted a guarantee of priced of railways and rolling stocks to cover any probable loss. He refused to allow ten per ceut. or to gnarantse. The five per cent, arrangement was then made. •he Government engineer also checked the pricps of the oth c r railway t 'riders. Mr Brogden could only make money if he managed judiciously. Hia connection would benefit the Colony. The Government would throw open future contracts for tenders. He read extracts from a speech by Mr Seed at a meeting in Dunedin, stating that the Clutba railway would cost L 375,000. he (Mr Yogel) then said it would cost L 270.000. The actual contract was for L 276.000. Mr Reid now blame 1 the Government. Mr Reid had offered to give L 15.000 to anyone -who raised 1.400.600 to construct the sa_v railway at ci >htper cent. The Port Chalmers railway bonds Were sold at 80, which was a great loss. The same bonds were now selling at 92- He had instiucted the Agent - General to repurchase bonds at 90, but probably he would not su -coed. When he said in 1870 that there would be LIO.OOO over the working expenses of railways at the end of the third year, he sa d also the statement was merely conjectural. He believed yet it would be realised. LI 35,000 ltad been derived from the sale of land during the' year. L 75.000 from Colonel Fielding's purchase. 'Allowing the public works policy to be justified by the result, he defended the A'gent-Gcneral's management of immigration. He bad to fight against and break up established monopolies. He defended the San Francisco mail service. The average time was superior to any service since' 1563. 'He road tah'es as to thipast various services, shewing it to be cheaper than any services during any previous Ministry's term of office." He denied that the San Francisco Service spoiled negotiations with Atlantic and Pacific Company, "which were stopped by the war in Europe. The Givil Service expenditure shewed a saving on previous administration thus :— The Treasury, L 69 8; Customs, L 1,500, 500 ; Post Office, L 59 4; Judicial, L 726- The credit balance in year 1867-68, was L 68.000 ; in 1868 69, L 69.00 0; in 1869 70,' L 286.000 ; in 1870-71, L315,C00; in 1871-72, L 298.000.

• Mr Gillies : All out of borrowed money. Mr Yogel: 132.000 should be deducted from liability for Treasury Bills issued. That sum was a liability from their predecessors. ,JJe.rea4amenio. showing that on Saturday there was paid L 40,000 to the credit of the Public Account into foe Brink oi New Zea-

land, and L 60,000 to Ibe credit of the ConsolrVed" Fhad. Now the v bqlanee to their credit in the Bank wa<? L 3 18,000. Liabilities to be met at the end of October woulc^ raduce the amount to LI 16, 000. He asked" when did evf-r the Treasury be in such a pontoon before? He denied that the Government hai abused its patronage, bnt charged Mr Stafford wi>h having done so. He did not see why members of the House should be precluded from appointments to the public service. Some of the highest officials in England had been in the House of Commons. He warned the House nob to believe in the sincerity of the last rpsr-lution. He refeired to Mr Stafford's former centralist views Mr Bunny bad said a disqualification Act would not prevent the Provincial authorities employing memh -ra of Parliament, if secured by the Provincial administration of public works. Pr.ivinc ; ilistic or Centr^listic view 3 dere ided upon whioh .^ide a man served. Provincialists becims Centralists when in the Miniiiry. He criticised Mr Reader Wood's opposition, and supposed the new Ministry said the Opposition merely desired to secure seats in the Ministerial benches. The speech ocenpied . nearly five hours, was very able, well delivered, andloudly cheered at the close.

August 30. Mr Fitzherbert, in a long and able speech, deprecated personal ' or party motives. He praised Mr yogel, and expressed an increasing rear ect for him. He expressed sympathy with the public works ami immigration policy, and thanked Mr Yogel for acknowledging him as its author. 'He said Mr Vo«el was a man of details, who lost himself in speculative details. He had no constructive ability, and always, put the cart before the hor^e, though he carefully considered the basis of his schemes. Tho course adopted by the N'ativu Minister was calculated * o embarrass his successors. He denit d having mad^ tho Wau_anui Bridge Bill a party measure, and said the action of the Government on tb. it Bill had not iufluenced him in going into opposition. He also disprove. \ Mr Vo.el's statement, that the refusal of the General Government to pay to the Province of Wellington the money accruing fmni the duty on deeds and leases had decided his vote. The amount was only L 7.438, and would he sell his vote for so small a sum ? In reply to Mr Vogel's boast as to the financial prosperity of the Colony, he sail the Fox Mini>try went out of office formerly, leaving an overdraft of IjßoO,ooo owin^ to the B-mk, of New Zealand ; ard a letter from the B-ink war e<l him tha f . that amount was not to be exceeded. Mr Fox then covered the overdraft by a million loan raisrd in London. Mr Fitzherbert further said that no advice bfting received at the time of the accumulation of unanswered letters in the Treasury was a proof of the aphorism, that ''wh»n the cat is away the mico will play." He praised Mr Yogel for defending the Agent General bus denied that t!>e General Government had availed itself of Pr >vincial aid He had offered services, whHi had been refused. The two M aori members from the districts, which are now at peace and not likely to 'be disturbed, had paired for the Government ; whereas the two members reoresenting districts which had lv en the scene of war and might be disturbed .-.gain, had pared for the Opposition ; and he regarded this as a significant fact. The speech was interrupted by the adjournment for the birthday batf, and will be resumed to-day. If Ministers are defeated, it is on the undt-ratajjding that there will be a reconstruct'on of the Cabinet, Mr Yogel and Mr M'Lean remaining members. An Opposition Ministry, as indicated, will not go down with either Krm9e. The Government will have a squeak for life. It is rumored that Mr Fitzherbert will, before sitting down, move an . amendment that the .House baa no confidence in the Ministry as at present constituted ; another dodge on not being able to oust Ministers on Mr Stafford's motion. Mr Fitzherbci tis now speaking. August 31. Mr Fitzherbert continued his speech on the House resuming last night. He said he would Le able to prove that Mr Vogel's alleged credit balance of LIO,OOO was a m.th. He would impugn the first L 1365 set down, as an asset from the confiscated land fund account. This had always been admitted to be bad, and a burden to the country. The difference between the produce of confiscated land and expenditure on the West Coast had been : Expenditure, L 30.000 ; income, L3OOO. L 34,377 was set down as recoverable from Provinces, and was set down as an available asset to meet bills falling due. A merchant might a3 well set down floating balances throughout the country as available to meet immediate liabilities. The asset was unroalisable, except for the purposes of winding up. The Financial Statement did not mention tho payment to Road B>ards which the Act provided in each year sho iM be paid out of the Consolidated Revenue. JL.59,000 was divided amongst the Provinces and County of ,W__tland. The Repeal Act was to continue' iv operation till July, 1872, and no longer ; therefore the old Act was now restored to it 3 operation, and L 50,000 was omitted from the liabilities. Thus, by balancing- these figures and those quoted in the early part of his speech, there was a clean deficit of L 35.000. Amongbt the sums payable to the Provinces, stamp duties, 1.37,000, were omitted, and Lloo,ooo set down as grants to Road Boards, but this sum was not paid. The House and country were thus deceived, and the Provinces lost L 75,000. If the Colonial Treasurer had come .down fairly, and said the Provincial revenues were required by the General Government, the case would have been different. He deprecated the prayer with which the Financial Statement concluded, because .when a man began to pray over figures there was something wrong. It was like the debtor who came to a meeting of his creditors, and excused the bad state of his affairs by saying he placed his trust in a higher Power. He deprecated the notion that a change of Ministry must lead to Native disturbances. Mr M'Lean had been idolised. No man was indispensable. Were we iv such a miserable condition,, and unfit t > carry »n free government that our institutions were entirely dependent on the life of one man ? The Native policy of the Colony was peace, which was a settled principle. The speech of. Parati sbowed bhat the Natives no longer desired to be treated as as- pat-ate people. The Government had worked upon tho fears of the House, as if Mr McLean bnd- an inalienable monopoly •>f the Native office. - Mr Mol-ean .remindedhim of the British ihatron wbo, : o;>jwation.. iike, when the schoolmaster came with! the Compulsory Education Act insiMaog upon the education of her children,- .cauw. to! her door, with her children peeping. out f. from nnder one big boy, and defying ?the Iftcljoolmaster. But the law must take its codrsr, with regard to the Natives. They did not require dandling like children, or watchiDg by interpreters. He referred to tha -war loan of three millions, and deprecated! the claim to a monopoly of a peace policy set up , by the Ministry. The former Ministry's Naive policy had been hampered, because they bad no money to train or maintain a permanent force. Mr Fox, some years ago, strongly expressed a hope that the. Colony, would be reduced to fUciU condition M fjo be

unable to borrow a single shilling ; yet he had borrowed nearly ten million- out of the eleven, for which the Colony' was indebted, f'fc Native difficulty was our skeleton in c cupboard, or the bugbear to frighten our ! children. The question was not one of policy but of administration, and Government had pleaded guilty, and orfy promised to be better in future. Some contended they should have another trial. If they allowed such a principle there would be an end to respoßsible Government. The Misdstry might then escape punishment for any political abuse by promises not to repeat them. They might thus absolutely hold office in perpetuity. The Ministry also pleaded to the kindly feelings of mankind, and said this was a scheme of their own. They were big with this great policy. When a woman was condemned to death, and pleaded being in an interesting condition in favor.of a reprieve, the law required that a jury of matrons should be empanelled. According to the strictest interpretation of the law the Opposition were competent to examine tho case as a jury, and the Speaker competent to inquire into it as judge. The Speaker being thus competent to act as judge, the jury had examined the oase and come to a deliberate conclusion that.no case for reprieve existed, the Ministry being barren ; therefore the extreme penalty of the law must take its course. This sally was met with a storm of cheers and laughter, during which Mr Fitzherbert resumed ___ seat.

Mr T. Kelly (Taranaki) reviewed th» disastrous Native policy of the Stafford Minis* try, and compared it with the present peaceful condition of the country. He opposed the resolutions.

Mr Henderson (Waitemata) deprecated a change of Government. He would not turn the Ministry out on personal grounds, and defended the San Francisco mail service. He opposed the resolutions. The debate was adjourned till Tuesday.