THE MOA PLAT SALE.

Tuapeka Times, Volume III, Issue 199, 23 November 1871, Page 5

THE MOA PLAT SALE.

October 14th. Mr. Bradshaw, M. H. E., in attendance on the committee.

By the Chairman : I believe you are Provincial Treasurer of Otago — is that so ? — Yes ; I am Treasurer of the Province of Otago.

You are aware of certain allegations made respecting a recent sale of land at Moa Flat to a Mr. Clarke. Do you know whether the allowance for survey was excessive ? — I see by a copy of an official letter of 20th September, 1871, that 2s per acre has been allowed.

Is that an excessive allowance? — I t'oink that ia an excessive allowance, according to custom. But it ia not . a question of my department: I should refer the Committee to the Secretary of Land and Works. A commission ia said to have been paid ; can you give the Committee any information upon this subject? — There was a special agreement of the Executive Government to, pay Mr. Larnach, as the agent of the Government, 1 per cent, upon this purchase. But it was a commission upon the sale of the denned piece of land. The lines, as defined by tho Executive Government, are not those shown upon the map of the sale as now produced. [The map in the possession, of the Committee wag then marked by Mr. Bradshaw, at the request of the Chairman, with a red line, A. B. C, showing the portion of the land wbieh tbe Executive G-overnmetit bad agreed should not be included in this sale. Mr. Bradshaw stated that he estimated the area of land now sold, but which the Executive Government had agreed should not be included in the sale, at about 15.000 acres.'[ By the Hon. Captain Eraser : mls all the area included within the red, line fit for settlement? — Yes: fo agricultural settlement or mining I wifch the exception of the 5,000 aero block, which was reported by Mr. M'Kerrow, the surveyor, to be pa*-, ture land, and on which I believe there are valuable improvements by Mr. Clarke, amounting to about 2,000 acres. But the Government thought it desirable, to save large compensation, to allow Mr. Clarke to 4 retain that portion as p^rt of Ita

$5,000 acres. There is no limit in the case of improvements as to the price to be paid ; and we have to settle Compensation by arbitration. ' "Arejou of opinion that .the 2,000 /icres .about Mr. Clarke's homestead .jyas .not fit for settlement? — i should .say that portion was decidedly tifc for settlement.

Was any portion of the area included i.n .the 2,000 acres about Mr. piavke^s homestead fit for mining purposes,?—l am' not prepared to say, jbhink the whole of the flat is auriferous — remotely auriferous, rather than immediately so. By .the Hon. Mr. Menz.ies: Was there any convenant existing in this case? — I have no knowledge on the question of the covenants. " By the Hon. Mr. Buddy : How was ..the island' block sold? — By public auction some time past, and Mr. piarke became the purchaser. But I am not in a position to say under :what Act it was taken from Mr. .Clarke's run. . By the Hon. Captain Frazer: At price was that Island Block sold to Mr. Clarke ?—lt? — It was, io the beet of piy recollection, between 20s and 30s i>er acre. 1 Are yow aware that compensation had to Tab .paid for several farms or settlepiente on the Island Block ? — I am not aware of that. "' By the Hon. Mr. Buckley : Were ihere any special reasons for effecting ihis sale ? — The question of the sale jbegan some time before I became an Executive officer. Promises had been made to the Bank' of New Zealand that land should be put into the market to cover an overdraft. At the time I joined the Executive the overdraft, as 'shown on the balance-sheet at the time I came into office amounted ! po £79,000. [Mr. Bradshaw here read the corporrespondence that bad passed between the Bank of New Zealand and the Provincial G-overnment on this subject,] By the Hon. C. J. Taylor : In clause S3 of the Regulations it is laid down, that land outside hundreds, with the ponsent of tbe runholder, " may be sold as if it had been included within the boundaries of a hunderd." Does not £hisj*tieeessitate such land being duly proclaimed' as open for sale, in the same way as land within hundreds ?—? — I am of opinion that lands outside or •within hundreds should be advertised for sale in the usual manner. But that is not a legal opinion. ' By the Hon. Mr. Menztes: — Is ihafr an opinion on the legality of the matter, or for the policy of the matter? ' — I give it as applying to both, as to the spirit of the clause in the Act. If any runholder made application to me at the present time for the purchase of any portion of his run at his own consent, I 'would insist upon its being advertised for sale, and open to public competition. ' ' Donald Eeid Esq., M.H.R., again attended the Committee, and was further examined. ' By the Hon. Mr. Gray: I believe you "are aware of a commission having been giving hi this case.' Do you consider that under the Act the Waste Lands Board was justified in giving that commission ? — I do not think jhat there is any justification for it in the Act.' 'But if the land had been sold by auctioneers, under our regulations, they would have been entitled to pommission.' I have no recollection of any such arrangement having been jnade with the Executive. ' ' B.y the Hon. ' Mr. Menzies : Has the Waste Lands Board power to grant pommission' on a private sale? — I do" riot' tinnk the Waste Lands Board has power to give any such commission. ' • '"By the Hon. Mr. Gray : Has there been any precedent for such commispionin'the way ithas been now paid ? — I am not aware of any.

By the Hon. Captain Frazer : Before ]and is sold on the goldfields, is it not usual to "call upon the Warden to report whether 'any' portion of the land is auriferous ?— -Yes. Had that been done in this case ?—? — Not' up to ' the ' time that I left. Although we hadwhatweconsidered reliable information that the land within the red 7 line was not likely to prove auriferous. " Was it your intention to reservp for settlement all the land within the red line ?— Yes. What was the approximate area? — I cannot give that. 1 By' the Hon. Mr. Menzies : Is it customary to give such an extenston of time for. survey as that stated to have been given in this ease ?—lt? — It is a part of the routine business- of the Chief Commissioner to-deterinine that point. But an extended time beyond the time named' by the Chief Commissioner would' have to be given by the Waste Lands Board.

1 By the Chairman : — Could you state •jvhy the right of "taking 11,QQO acres under covenant, without compensation, fias not in this case exercised ?-^— By so fining "we should virtually have limited pur right p'f taking more land hereafter, |f foo-nd necessary. We'stilf retain the yigbt' jib exercise 'the covenant. ' ' In plause 83 of the Regulations it is laid 'down that land piitsfde hundreds, with" the consent of the rimhplder, t! may .be sold as if it had, been in,plucled withm the boundaries; of a hundred." ' Does not this necessitate" such la^d being 'duly proclaimed as open for ?sa}e, in the' same way ,as land within hundreds?— I am not aware r that it

necessitates that. But the practice has been to fulverfcise that the land would be open for sale after a certain day. By the Honi Captain Eraser : Suppose I (had 'heard of the application, and had put in an application on the same clay, what effect would that have iTatNfeon the transaction ?— Either Mr. Clarke would have withdrawn his consent to the jsale, or it must ha.Ye beep, sold at auction.

[In conclusion, Mr. Reid desired .to state that, with the exception of the sale of the land beyond the boundary of the red .line referred to, he considered the sale a beneficial one both for general and provincial interests.] John Bathgate, Esq., M.H.R., being in attendance on the Committee, was then examined. \ By the Chairman :" You are Provincial Solicitor, are you not? — I am. In clause S3 of* the Regulations it is laid down that land outside hundreds, with the consent of the runholder, " may be sold as if it had been included within the boundaries of a hundred." Poes not this necessitate such land being duly proclaimed as open for sale, in the same way as land within hundreds 1

/For the following letter see Minutes of 14th October and 18th October.) October 16, 1871.

Sir, — Referring to the query put to me at the Inst meeting of your Committee, whereby I was asked to give an opinion upon the interpretation of the 83rd seclion of the Otago Waste Lands Act, 1866, it has occurred to me that were I in the circumstances to give such an opinion, it might be considered a breach of the usual professional confidence betwixt counsel and client. There can be no doubt thnr the Law Officer of riie Executive of the Province of Otago is privileged, and cannot, in that capacity, be called upon as a witness in any matter effecting the administration of the Province, (VYyatt v. Gore Holt, 229 ; Cookev. Maxwell and Stark, 183; Cuny v. Walker, 1 Report, 456) I have, &c, John Bath&ate, Provincial Solicitor, Dunedin. The Hon. the Chairman, Otago Land Sale Committee, Legislative Council. October 18. Mr. Bathgate M. H. 11., in attendance again before the Committee, and examined.

By the Chairman : The Committee would be glad to have your opinion on the subject of the question referred to you at the last meeting, relative to clause 83 of the Act, as a member of the Executive, if you are prepared to give it ? — I am only a member of the Executive as its law officer. I should not like to commit; myself to an opinion. Anything that is matter of fact I should of course have no objection to state.

By the Hon. Mr. Buckley: Jrlas it been" the practice of the Waste Lands Board to sell land out of runs, in the same way as the land out of Clarke's was sold, without advertising it as open for sale ? — I believe that the Waste Lands Board have repeatedly sold unsurveyed rural land without previous advertisement. By the Hon. Captain Eraser : Under which clause of the Waste Lands Act was the block of land sold to Clarke ? — I am not in a position to state that the block of land has been sold to Clarke : that is, I am not in a positiou to give legal evidence on the subject. Of my own knowledge I know nothing about it.

By the Hon. C. X Taylor- Are you not a member of the Provincial Executive of Otago, who initiated the idea of this sale, and in accordance with whose instructions it is presumed the Waste Lauds Board must have acted ? — I am not aware whether the present Executive, of I am a member, initiated the which sale which has been concluded with the Waste Lands Board. I believe the negotiations concerning it have taken place since I came to the Assembly. While here, I was consulted as a member of Executive, whether I would agree to certain proposals offered on behalf of Mr. Clarke. I concurred with the other members in sending a telegram to a member of the Waste Lands Board, or to the Deputy - Superintendant, I am not sure which refusing Mr.- Clarke's proposals, if certain conditions were not agreed to. By the Hon. Captain Fraser : was the land withdrawn, and the lease cancelled by Proclamation ? — Not that I know of.

How soon, after the date of poclatnation, was the land sold to Clarke ? — These are facts not within my own knowledge.