PARLIAMENTARY NEWS.

Tuapeka Times, Volume III, Issue 188, 14 September 1871, Page 6

PARLIAMENTARY NEWS.

(From the '* Daily Times" Telegrams.) Wellington, September sth. The Otago Special Settlements Bill, and Otago Education Reserves Abandoment JBill, have been read a second time. Mr "Yogel, in reply to Mr Inglis, positively denied that during the late Superintendency and other elections.

Mr. Macandrew had been allowed the free use or the telegraph wires. Mr. Macandrew also denied it.

Mr. Bath gate presented a petition from the Corporation of Dunedin, and one signed by 1000 of the citizens, against the Dunedin Water Woiks Company's Act Amendment Bill. Both were referred to the Committeo appointed to consider that Bill.

Mr. Bath gate also presented a petition signed by 255 labouring men, praying that they might have their wages paid weekly ; arid one from John Dick, publisher of the " Echo " and "Southern" League newspapers, complaining that lies did not receive a shareof the Government advertisements, although the price asked by him was below that of the " Evening. Star." Both were referred to the Public Petitions Committee.

Mr. Macandrow's resolutions were postponed.

Mr. Reid has given notice of motion to introduce the Otago Land Bill tomorrow. Mr. Macandrew wished Mr. Eeid to undertake the duty.

The debate on. the Education. "Bill is resumed, and Mr. Harrison is now speaking.

In the Legislative Council, Dr Buchanan's amendment that the Council should go into Committee this day six months on the Marriage with a Deceased Wife's Sister Bill, Avas carried by a majority of one.

September 6th.

Last night Mr. Harrison resumed the debate on the Education Bill. He said that the details and machinery of the Bill were bad. A Commisson during the recess would have prepared a more satisfactory measure. It would be ncccessary to turn the Bill inside out. In Committee lie would object to the perpetuation of Provincial institutions, which a little foresight would show would soon cease to cxint. The opinions of a largo section of the community respecting a religious Education Bill must be regarded, and a fair compromise proposed. It would be iaipossiblc to enforce the compulsory education clauses. Mr. M'Gillivary objected to the Bill chioilly because it perpetuated Provincial institutions, which he hoped to see swept away during the present session.

Mr. Shepherd (Nelson) and Mr. Bryce (Wanganui) spoke against the Bill generally.

Mr. Hall said the Bill was not a denominational one, but it recognised the fact that a large number of earnest and devoted men held special views, and that they had done much foi 1 tho cause of education. In the name of religous liberty and toleration he demanded that denominational schools should receive State assistance if they were up to the Government standard. Religious intolerance seemed now to be replaced by secular intolerance. The whole spirit of the Bill was a fair compromise and conciliation.

Mr. Uejmoltls objected to Vne constitution of the Boards. He would like to fees abolished. It was impossible to enforce the compulsory clauses. He was not favourable to the Aided Schools clauses. Although the duty of the State only extended to secular instruction, reading the Bible at certain hours without comment was necessary.

M t\ Hamilton, in the course of Lis remarks said, denominational schools should receive the same aid as Government schools when up to the standard, and should even be helped in the erection of buildings. &c. The compulsory clauses, as drawn up, would force children to -attend denominational schools if they were the nearest. The Bill, however, was a great improvement on the Otago Ordinance, where the system was neither secular nor perfect. After it had been in existence for fifteen yeai's, a matriculation examination had to be dispensed wi*"h at the opening of the Otago University.

Mr. Gisborne defended the Bill, as affording a solution of the religious difficulty. It rni^ht be imperfect, but it was a judicious compromise, not violating the convictions of any religious body, and yet maintaining the obligation of the State to provide the means of education. To eliminate the Aided Schools clauses would imperil the Bill, injure the cause of education, and light the fires of religious persecution and animosity. It was desirable to assort the principle of compulsory education, even if it were only partially enforced. An ascending series of schools was an important feature of the Otago system, and if it had not proved satisfactory it would soon have broken down.

Mr. Swanson denied that the Catholic laity were opposed to a secular system of education. The opposition came from the clergy. It was the duty of the State to see what a man does, not what he believes*. Mr. Murray moved the adjournment of the debate.

To-day, Mr. Reynolds presented a petition from 35 tenants of the Crown in Otago, complaining of the proposed change in the law, and interference with vested rigets, and stating that a large class of the community were seeking to dispossess the runholders. It also poiuted'out the inability of the Provincial Government to stem the tide of popular iv justice, and said that the time had arrived when tho privilege of initiating the land laws should be withdrawn from the Provincial Council.

Nearly all the afemoon sitting of the House was occupied in a rambling discussion on a motion of Mr. Farnall,

in favour of the allocation of £20,000 a-yoar out of the annual £100,000 for roads in the No^th Island under the Immigration and Public Works Act, to bo spent in the district to the north of the City of Auckland. A large number of members spoke, and the debate gradually raised the whole question of the allocation of the loans between the North and Middle Islands. The debate was ultimately adjourned until after the delivery of the Financial Statement.

The Goldfiolds Committee havo reported against any reduction in the fee for miners' rights.

September 7th.

Mr. Murray rssumed the debate on the Education Bill last evening. He thought the Nelson system was a fair compromise with regard to religious training. He would charge school fees, and supplement them from the Customs' revenue. He objected to the machinery for the election of Boards resting on the foundation of Provincialism.

Mr. Reid congratulated Mr Fox upon the change that had taken place in his opinions regarding the desirability of a colonial scheme of education. The Bill provided for the meeting of too many difficulties to prove a permanent measure. He denied that the Otago scheme was so good as it had been represented to be by Mr. Reynolds, or so bad as Mr. Haughton had represented it. The schools had been fairly inspected, and were as efficient as any 'other in the colony. • He maintained that it was the duty of the State to afford to every person in the community, the moans of attaining the highest standard of education. He concurred in the objections with regard to the proposed constitution of the Boards, and he also objected to the nomination of the members of the Boards. They should. I>e el.-ctecl by the School Coixiiiiilt.e<_-i>. The main -work of carrying out tho Act should rest in the Committee. They should have the right to elect teachers, but not to dismiss them without the consent of the Board. The Committee should be chosen evei-y three years, the members retiring by rotation. The Boards should have the power to establish (i ram mar Schools without reference to the Provincial Council. The Minister should nob have the power Lo overrule the decisions of the Boards. The Committees should have power to levy rates and erect school buildings. He objected to a household rate. The Bill proposed to solve the religous difficulty by establishing a purely denominational system, and the logical sequence of such provisions would be that the community would hive off into sectarian schools. He objected to the giving of religious instructions in schools, as the tendency was to relieve parents of their duty in this matter. The Aided Schools clauses would have a most disastrous effect on the cause of education. He did not approve of free education. He would t-timulate the teachers by giviug them a share of the fees. The House should only adopt a purely national system. Mr. Collins said the Bill was not a truly colonial measure. He objected to the religious clauses, and would prefer a purely secular system to one introducing religion by a sidewind. The mere reading of the Bible would do no good, and might perhaps do some harm. He would like to see denominational schools aided, and the aid exlondod to Sunday Schools. lie disapproved of the compulsory clauses. The General Government should raise all the funds for education purposes. He would divide the colony into educational districts, each electing its own Board, and receiving aid from the General Government. Unless the Bill were altered in Committee to meet his views, he would vote against it on the third reading.

Mr. Stafford expressed his gratification and hia gratitude to Mr. Eox for introducing the framework of so useful a measure, and said Mr. Eox should also be grateful to the other side of the House for the gentle pressure exercised to overcome his reluctance to introduce a colonial Education Act. The Bill showed great care in its preparation, but he nevertheless joined in the universal condemnation of the proposed constitution of the Boards. Et would have been impossible to devise a worse method of appointment, unless the Provincial Councils themsplvcs had been constituted the Boards. Whoever had the power to appoint the teachers should also have the power to determine the amount of their salaries. Experience showed that nothing worked worse than that one person should have tho power of appointment, and another that of determining the salary. He objected to the proposed mode of taxation. The power to determine the mode of taxation should remain with the House. Permissive taxation was objoctionablo in small Committees. The fairest mode of raising the educational funds would be by a contribution from the general revenue. Even a house tax of 20a would not raise sufficient funds. Ho would prefer a smaller house tax, and a rate, including personal property, if possible. When supported by general taxation, the elementary schools should be free. The whole colony regretted that the clauses of the Nelson Ordinance, imposing a capitation tax on children, whether attending school or not, had been omitted. Paying this made the parents send their children to school to get something in return for their money. The Minister should not have the

power to overrule a decision _of the Board, but only the power to n^iirq its reconsideration. He should n&W have the power to spend mGuey belonging to the Provincial Council. High class schools were a necessary part of an educational system, but they should be maintained by fees, and not by general taxation, as it was not fair to tax everyone to give a few a superior education. Theoretically he approved of a compulsory system, but practically it was impossible. The clauses were too sweeping, and should at least be confined to the large towns, Without the Aided Schools clauses, to, enforce compulsory attendance would be intolerable tyranny. He supported the Aided Schools principle. He was originally strongly in favour of a secular system of education, but years of reflection and reading had left him in doubt as to what secular education meant ; he was unable to say where it began or where it ended. As to readingthe Bible, what version would they use? Would they accept the Douay version ?— ■ (Mr. Macandrew : Yes. Others : No.) The majority of Pro^ testant gpcts emphatically gay No; and the Bible must therefore be excluded from any secular system. He attached no impoi-lance to the reading of it in schools. It tended rather to disgust children with religion and the Bible. It was an ingenious method of doing this to allow some of them to go and play marbles, while the others were kept in school to do something to conduce to their^salvatfon. A purely secular system would be impossible beyoud the alphabet, arithmetic, and writing. Every book inculcated a religious dogma; every history had in. it something objectionable to some ci;tbs in the community. Even elementary geographies were necessarily mixed up with history. It was wise ai\d just to afford, assistance, to denotninational schools, and without th© Aided Schools clauses the Bill would be unwise and unsatisfactory. Tho Otago members had ignored the extensive discontent regarding their system on the part of the Catholics. The Aided Schools would be of use to all denominations. • Three-fourths of the boys attending the Catholic Aided Schools in Nelson were Protestants. It we were to have a puiely national system of education firmly established, wo could not afford to ignore the conscientious opinions of a large section of the community, both Protestant and Catholic.

Mr. Wakefield thought the Minister of Education should be a permanent, not a political officer. He approved of the Aided School clauses, and. suggested that education should be made a qualification for the franchise. Th© Bill would require extensive alterations to suit the requirements of the colony.

Mr. Creighton moved the adjournment of the debate.

A long debate took place today on Mr. Steward's motion for the abolition of grand juries. Mr. Bathgate seconded the motion. Messrs. Murray, Henderson, Tribe, "Wakefield, and Fox supported it, and Messrs. Curtis and Gisborne, and Sir David Monro, opposed it. The debate is still uufinished.

In reply to Mr. Shepherd, the Government stated that they did not intend to propose a vote for a Gaol and Court House at the Duntan, and without them the Supreme Court could not sit there.

The Government promised to introduce a Bill to render the Land Trans-r fer Act more perfect, and that they would give immediate attention to the question of completing and correcting the surveys of the colony.

Mr. Yogel announced his inability to deliver his Financial Statement tomorrow, but said that he would give it on Tuesday.

The Insolvency Bill is referred to a Select Committee, consisting of Messrs. Richardson, Brandon, Peacock, Curtis, Gillies, Haugbton, and Bathgate, to 'confer with the Legislative Council,

September Btb,

Mr. Creighton resumed the Education debate last evening. The other speakers were Messrs. White (Hokitika), Johnson (Manawatu) Thompson (Otago) Fitzherbert, O'jSTeill, and Kelly, the latter of whom moved the adjournment of the debate.

This afternoon ' was spent in Committee on various Bills.

In the Motcnka Election case today, the evidence of the petitioner on the bribery allegation was concluded. It was of the most trumpery character, simply showing that 12 Germans, who had to travel 40 miles from where they were working to the polling place, some of whom had signed the requisition to Sir David Monro, and all of whom declared their intention of voting for him, had received 16s each, being at the rate of 8s n d.ay for the two days they lost in travelling to and fro. Air. Travors submitted that no case had been made out to answer regarding this allegation, as the only payment made had been shown to be for reasonable travelling expenses. Mr. Allan contended that this payment really amounted to bribery. The Committee have taken time to consider their decision.

The Chinese Immigration Committee are sending a set of queries to the Goldfields Wardens, the Victorian Government, and various other quarters, and are not likely to report for % long time :