MR DARGAVILLE AT ST. JAMES' HALL.

Observer, Volume 6, Issue 141, 26 May 1883, Page 1

MR DARGAVILLE AT ST. JAMES' HALL.

'-: THERE .was a very, fair response to the invitation •, issued. %j Mr J.M. Dargaville to the electors of •v.Gity'.WestTto meet him at St. James' Hall on v Thursday evening, the 17th inst., and hear his 4'^iews ■on the .political situation. When the commenced the assemblage was very 'ismaJ4'iibiiit it gradually increased until there were x 'nearly iwp hundred persons present. ,v'vlMr : JßSdwin Carr was voted to the chair, and ■'briery, introduced the speaker of the evening. He . said the small attendance was probably due ;.,tp the fact of the arrival of the English ships, ■■'. which had caused a stir in the place ; to the fact 'that there was but little stir in political matters ; a and alsa to the further fact that their represen- ■; tatiye:,had /no broken pledges to apologise for. ; He. referred to the fact that Mr Dargaville had ■ been steady and assiduous in his duties, had sup- ■'. ported- industrial and commercial interests of the ■place, and delivered what he considered to have been, the beat financial speech of the session. .;'., In commencing his address, Mr Dargaville .explained! that he had called the electors together •in pursuance of a previous promise, and to confer Uwith them regarding, what was best to be done in ■ political matters at the approaching session. Other members had previously addressed their ■ constituents, but there was then very little inte- ■ rest in politics, and he had delayed his address until 'he . considered there was an awakening of •.. interest. When he went to Wellington, being of ; a practical turn, he had endeavoured to bring ..laboiiit a co-operation amongst the Auckland and flMjjLanaki members, ; in order to direct pressure HBK>nAth.e Government and induce them to HHp eed.with the Auckland and Taranaki railway He might, without vanity, say that no member took a more active part in adHnrocating that' line than he himself. Caucuses f'yirere held, and information was obtained from a f • variety, of sources. They came to the conclusion „ that the West Coast line was not only the best ■ for; Auckland, but also the shortest and cheapest. ',' They "waited on the Government, but were .told that there was not sufficient data before ' , them on which to take action, but they would .keep ' £he matter steadily in view, and have a Burvey'inade. The Taranaki members separated to their respective parties, while, according to the ■■■ promise which he had made before election, he associated himself with the Liberal party. But .the Opposition divided into several sections. Sir. George Grey had about fifteen followers, . Mr Montgomery about fifteen, while another ■ fifteen did not identify themselves with either. 3?rom the beginning to the end of the session '.'• there was no organised opposition, but he had ...kept faithful and loyal to his pledge to .continue in association with what was the •., Liberal party. He was a tyro in poli- ■ tics, and when he went South naturally enQ.uiufid-^bjQut the Opposition policy on such ; questions as education, railways, and other „\ matters. But he was given to understand that v what .they .had to do was to turn out the '.Government first and attend to the matters in '■-' question afterwards. This was a shock to his : .preconceived notions of what political morality •was. He found that expediency rather than . , principle ruled the day. He had the interests of ,- -,tihe : North Island trunk railway deeply at heart, . .-. and as he had said, he voted with the Opposition, - . and found that they were seven more in favour vpf the Taranaki- Auckland railway than the ■present .Government was. The speaker pro- : eeecied tp review the proposals of the Govern- , " m'ent in the [Financial Statement, in reference to the allocation of the loan. Only £200,000 was '. to be spent on railways in Auckland province. .. Wellington was to receive £435,000 for the construction of railways, Avhile the South Island ...was to receive £1,015,000. This statement was . , ■ delivered in May, but it was not until August ; ■ . that they first heard of the million loan to the ','." • \Auekland-Taranaki line, and even then the -y -Government left it to the discretion of the House, \ stating their existence on the three- million loan. V The Opposition decided to fight the Government /.oh. .their financial proposals generally, but on the £/: eve of.' that fight, Mr Whitaker, who was a very ,' crafty old general (laughter), managed matters. V\A-' little thimble-rigging was done. The One- , .Million Loan Bill was put at the top of the order ', paper where the Three-Million Loan Bill had . previously been, the object being to place the ■ .."- Auckland. members in as unfavourable a light as v ? possible before their constituents, and gain over •■.'-' ■weak-kneed individuals to then 1 side. But they '. vwere 'not successful. When the contest took .. place every member on both sides of the House . spoke in favour of the construction of the Auck-"-.Vilahd-Taranaki Hkc, and the fight was not on this ■■■'-.. . subject ', ' but' on the question whether the ;■ financial proposals deserved the support of the ■'.-' ■' 1 -House. ; The Government won this division by -\ Ai votes,, but on the motion for second reading of sV\. this 'One-Million Loan Bill, there was a shifting '■:■£ of parties,; making, a. difference of eleven votes. $ --"The Government showed its indifference about •4\ the measure, by some of their supporters (Crossing $"■ over and voting with the Opposition, while three ■f l .. of ; their supporters left the House. That Bill itfi "would have been lost if twelve members of the :^; had not at once gone over to the '^WotheV'sideof the House, and, voting with the |"*G6ye'rnmeht, carried the 1 Bill in spite of the l^defeetipn'. of the Government. It was not necestlfV'saryto; take, his word for this statement, as they 'y ]&&'. &<insard for it. itansard was not always $?\i correct re'gajding the substance df speeches, but was., invariably correct in reporting divisions, 'Vt^hich, were taken from the Speaker's own lists. '.V, The '>membera who walked out were Messrs ii^dTu'ltdnj Levin j and Pearson ; the four who -went > Messrs Allright, Sutton, ijfftr^fipuse, y'and another. (Cries of "name." iipt .mention the other, as he was not Wi^£etsSi&& defend .himself. -(Renewed calls P^or^^^jatfiev") V. Well, : it was Mr Swan-«'gP^fe^S^^-^^^'V^g^.^i every form of borB^Mwij^i|^h'ro'u^h a 6ut;;the >." session, . on principle . ..V.^e^t^e'lv^'-v.'men,

who left the Opposition side of the House, and walking across, voted with the Government to save the Bill from being lost, were Messrs Dargaville, Doclson, Fish, Harris, Leviston, McDonald, MeKenzie, Moss, Pyke, Shepherd, Stewart, and Sutton. Those were the members of the Opposition who walked over and carried the Bill in spite of the defection of Government supporters. And j yet those were also the membera who were charged with sacrificing the interests of the Colony to their own ambition, who were deluged with telegrams from various sources, and who were made i the subjects of false and untruthful reports and telegraphic messages in the newspapers. It was fortunate that such meetings as this enabled members to set themselves right with their constituents. There were several evidences of insincerity on the part of one of the Government, and this was one of them. And now he would proceed further to show who were the real opponents of that measure. In Committee, the Government inserted a clause which emasculated the Bill, and rendered it useless, unless brought before successive Parliaments. That provision prevented the money being raised until the line had been surveyed and approved by Parliament. It was [ not likely to be surveyed in time for the last or for this session, although it might be for the one following. He interviewed the Premier on the matter, and charged him with inserting the clause in consequence of pressure being brought to bear by their own supporters. He offered the Premier Unity Opposition votes to cany the Bill in its integrity, striking out the proviso ; but Mr Whitaker denied the charge of pressure, and said he had inserted the proviso himself, thinking it was a good thing to prevent the misapplication of the money. He (the speaker) threatened to move the recommittal of the Bill with the object of having the proviso struck out, but Mr Whitaker said the Government would oppose the motion, and accepted it as a tantamount to a want-of-confidence question, and therefore the matter dropped. It would thus be seen that the blame on this head could not be charged to the Opposition. When the proposal was made to borrow the million for this railway, the question arose how it was to be applied or invested in the meantime. He (Mr Dargaville) pointed out that it could be deposited with the sis banks trading in the Colony, on the practice which obtains in New South Wales and Victoria. Exception was taken to this proposal, and he was told that it could not be done, and that he would not propose such a thing if he were not a tyro in politics, and so on. If that had been done, the money which they would have borrowed at four per cent, could have been deposited at five and six per cent., making a profit on the money. New South Wales had done this recently, but when he proposed it he was pooh-poohed. Almost the first commandment in the political decalogue of some New Zealand members was this — " Thou shalt have none other bank but one." That being so, he was compelled to abandon his proposal. If the Government had done aa he suggested, they would have had a profit on their loan, and the banks would have had more money available for the accommodation of the trading public. Another financial matter that attracted his attention during the last season was that our Colonial Treasurer was constantly borrowing money on one hand, and paying off; borrowed money on the other. We were now actually selling four per cent, debentures at £98 less 05---pences, and paying £270,000 yearly in redeeming old debentures at about £102. This was being done in accordance with a sinking fund fad of Sir Julius Yogel's, to show how good our intentions are. While he was speaking of Major Atkinson, he would refer to his scheme of National Insurance. The public was so distinctly adverse to it that it was improbable that anything further would be heard of it iv a practical form. The Major's idea was that every young person should pay £4*l to provide for his future, and in the course of the next generation, this would have the effect of placing between twenty and thirty millions in the public chest. All the Treasurer's proposals seemed to tend in this one direction — the raising of money for the public Exchequer either in this colony or in the English money market. One result of the scheme would be to attract paupei'3 from the other colonies, anxious to participate iv. the benefits from the charitable intentions of private persons. He wanted to know why all this outcry should be made about pauperism. Whore, he asked, did it exist ? . Speaking of the native difficulty) Mi Dargaville said there was great reason for congratulation at the result of Mr .Bryce' s management of native affairs so far. Acts had been passed giving the Native Minister great powers, and those powers he had used with good results to the colony so far. It would bo unfortunate for New Zealand if Mr Bryce were to be displaced before his efforts for the ultimate and final settlement of native affairs had born full fruition. He thought this native administration should be raised above the sphere of party politics, and it was with this idea in his mind that he trusted that the present Native Minister might continue in his office whatever other changes mighl happen. He thought Mr Bryce's intention* relative to native lands were objectionable, while he also considered that Messrs -Eollestbn anc Bryce were stop-gaps to the progress of the North Island. Mr Eolloston's idea was noi really land nationalization, nor leasing pure anc simple, nor exactly sale on deferred payment, bill mixed mongrel policy containing a little of al three, and from which he (the speaker) did nol expect much good. His (Mr Eolleston's) actior in reference to the Hot Lakes district was a gigantic fraud on the natives, if anything the Government had done could be described as a fraud. The Government used the Act to pro' claim an area of about 600,000 acres. Tht intention of Parliament evidently-, was thai the Hot Lakes and surrounding district oi thirty or forty, thousand acres at most should be reserved, but the Minister had gone xaudh further in appropriating the larger, ■arcaT In this action, the conduct , of the Government was an outrageous breach of thV-Treaty of Waitangi, They wejce-ewdently. determined to prey eat aJJ

progress within that area, and neither would! they make railways there, nor allow the natives > to give permission to private individuals to do it. j Then again, he would ask, what had the Govern- ; merit ever done to introduce here the good class i of English and Scotch farmers who were immi- ; grating to America, and Canada in such large! numbers? It was true that they, had put j splendid blocks of land in the way of speculative • men like Vesoy Stewart, Q-rant and Foster, and ) others, 'selling it to them at low prices. These, investors proceeded to England, and retailed the . land at enormous prices. Farmers came out here . handicapped by the high price of their farms, in ! which the whole of their capital was often sunk. ' They had then no money with which to carry on . operations, and consequently their ventures were . failures. Why, he asked, did the Government! not send home agents provided with maps and " plans to point out the advantages of the land, and offer it at moderate prices, and thus induce farmers to come here with money in their pockets, and thus contribute to the general prosperity? This would be much better than allowing middle men to make enormous profits out of these land transactions. He thought that Mr Johnston, Minister of Public Works, was too much in the hands of the officials in the Department, but he had been successful in his negotiations for the renewals of the Pacific Mail contract. In this matter, the interests of Auckland had not been neglected by any of her representatives. Speaking of Mr Whitaker, Mr Dargaville said he believed ho was a Liberal in theory, whatever he might bo in practice. He matured several liberal measures in the Upper House, one of which was the Alienation of Lands Bill. It was a good measure, and he objected to it only on the ground that it had a retrospect effect. This portion of it had been expunged, and the measure in the amended form would be introduced during this session. Law Practitioners' Bills had been introduced by Sir George Grey and the Hon. the Premier, and the difference was briefly explained by the speaker. With reference to what he had done himself, he would say that if he had not done mrieh it was partly because his party was not well knit together. However, he had placed one measure on the Statute Book, and that he considered was something to claim credit for, even if he had done nothing else. He referred to the Employers Liability Act. (Applause). Now, if a workman suffered injury through the neglect of his employer or his employer's foreman, or through defective machinery he could recover three years' wages, or if he was killed, his widow could recover to the same extent. The Eight Hours Bill was introduced by Mr Green, and thrown out of the Upper House, but it would have had very little effect. It amounted' to this :— A declaration to the effect that, unless a contract were made, eight hours should be a full day's work, exceptions being made. The only way in which practical improvement could be effected in this respect was by co-oper-ation amongst working men themselves. He had intended to endeavour to get a law passed to provide for early closing of places of business., but the Bill in he had intended to introduce the clause was slaughtered amongst the innocents. He would, however, take further action in the matter. He would say that whore it could be conveniently done without endangering their existence, the Government appeared inclined to see justice done to Auckland. Two endowments for local institutions had been passed, but several Southern members had opposed these Bills by many frivolous amendments. Tho committee of the Auckland Institute had, like a Mutual Admiration Society, passed a vote of thanks to one of their members for obtaining the endowment, while the credit was principally due to Messrs Sheehan and Swanson. Again, the Auckland Teachers' Association had passed a vote of thanks to Mr O'Oallaghan, a Southern member, for services, while the credit was really due to himself. It was evident that here, as elsewhere, a prophet had no honour in his own country. He would like to say a word about Bellamy's. It was a useful institution, and on only one occasion during the session had he known a member to so far exceed himself as to be unable to attend to his duties. And, even then, it would not have been noticable if ho had not attempted to argue the point. He' would not vote for the abolition of Bellamy's. He was shoi'tly going to Wellington, and he intended to go free and untrammelled, and vote on all questions as his conscience and the interests of the colony die* tated. He would go down a3 a perfectly free agent, acknowledging no party and no leader, although he would reseiws.to himself the right to join any he might consratar most worthy of his support. He could ass'ujjeirthein that he would still do his best for Auckland and the North. An elector inquired what was the .member's opinion of Sir George Grey's Legal Practitioners Bill. Mr Dargarville said he thought it was an unfair proceeding on the part of the Government to introduce their Bill in the Upper House, while Sir George Grey's second Bill, to be brought forward in the House of Representatives, was maturing- ; Mr Garrard thought the member had done his "dooty," but he wanted to know if a magistrate, had power to allow a lawyer to put questions to a witness in a case. Amidst uproar, it. was alleged that Mr Garrard was not an elector of the district. The amiable William George asserted he was, but on reference to the roll it was found that his assertion was not founded on fact. In answer to an elector, who wished to know the member's view on the Education question, Mr Dai'gavill said he was a secularist pure and simple. With reference to secondaiy schools,, supported mainly by the State, he considered thajj they should be mainly if not entirely for^jM benefit of those children in the primary Jjjj^^M who showed a superior capacity. ChijflH^H wealthier parents should have theirjfl^Hfl| paid for. Replying to further Daragaville said— (]) That t ne ?(^^^H|^HH| which men could claim the ir£^^^^H|^^HHH| object to any set-off' by s tor es^^H^H^^^^^Hj thought this -was 'the '^^^jjj^^^B^H^H^^H

willing, to assist in : ma'king ; : ifc "such.' '(2), HeV6B-^||| jected to any tampering wiih tjbe Education' Apt^;?||^ which, might affect its general' principles. V might be trivial alterations refe rring to tfie,eie6«;^^ tion of school committees niicl BUeh imjatt^|Pi-''l>Uo-f^ so jealous was he of jeopardising auy of.thejfictuiQj!,;: 1 ;;,^ principles of the system, that lift would put W^l;^ with these difficulties for some fciitie longer. V (8);-^ |s He would sujiport Mr ' Green's :Biil in w'lnicliftfiqj^i! 1 ;-; form. (4) He "would not be •willing td. support *>./'$ proposal for an export tax bnrough timber. The-' ' : ;']< timber trade of the province j -which gave.efiiplby*;-,| '.'Jl ment to many thousands of: persona, would -oV^il virtually killed, by such v tax, and' there ■w-ouldb*'K; Oi ;. no possible competition against American timbe*^:^.; in the Australian markets. He found that where • 5?: wages were low, there was nefer'aefcual prosperity. >i ;;| He would never legislate in favour or reducing v;-^ wages or cheapening labour.' In' Ms .• districts hfe ;. ;\\ had the best men and paid the best wages! in the , >- province. The result of good wages wao good ■ ' work, and that the district was flourishing.) |< (s) ;. " He thought Mr Bryce had acted with meannew, "• ; injustice, and parsimony in dealing 'With, .the - j' Thames Volunteers, and he had told him'ißo,; ; to his face in the House. (6) Plurality of YOte&iiijL. ; : : the election of members did 'not exisb now. ■ >'<{%} ■ ■ Discharged soldier 3 were entitled to their land: - grants, and if they had not got them it was their own faults. ■ - ... n<]:r<!) A vote of thanks and confidence in Mr 3)arga» '•' ' . ville was then unanimously passed on the motion of Mr McMaster. ■ ;■. . ■<■}■ >-^. ■ The proceedings concluded with a vote <o£ thanks to the chairman. -••-., ■; <■'•>'