PARLIAMENTARY.

Thames Star, Volume XII, Issue 3956, 2 September 1881, Page 2

PARLIAMENTARY.

(Pee Peess Association.) Wellington, Yesterday. Our latest telegrams of yesterday's date left Levistam in possession of the House, and he continued speaking until 2.4o.—Gibbs followed, objecting to the bill on various grounds, and continued until 3 30. —Tomoana applauded the stand taken by the Nelson members, and

thought there was a great deal of similarity between their position aud that of the native members. Each were contending for those they represented. The Government should come to some just settlement. He proposed to sing a verse of a Maori song to illustrate his views on one point.—Hall objected to such a violation of propriety. The native members should be taught practically how to con* form themselves to the rule of debate.— Pitt thought it would be quite in order for a member even to sing, Ho supposed all their voices were more or less musical or discordant.-— Tomoana said he had asked the Chairman whether he was in order in singiug his song.—Colonel Trimble, who was Chairman, said he did not think the hon member would be a bit more out of order in singing than all the other members had been for the last 12 hours. The whole proceeding had really become a farce. Holding the chair | temporarily, he did not wish to go against rulings already given ; but he held that ! the forms of the House were not intended to be used for purposes of obstruction. He quoted authorities in support of this. He held it would be out of order to sing. —Collins said they would undoubtedly have to wait five months in order to secure justice. There was apparently no chance of concession from the Government, and as for himself and others working with him, there was not the slightest chance of yielding to intolerable tyranny when they knew they were in the right. The only means of settlement was dissolution. He finished speaking at 4.35, and was succeeded by Mr Hursthouse, who continued speaking up to half-past 5 o'clock, when the Committee rose until 730.— Hursthouse resumed at 7.30, and spoke about half an hour.—Sir G. Grey then spoke on the general question of land laws and electoral rights, He was proceeding to speak on the Pensions Question when the Chairman ruled him out of order. In referring to that subject, Sir G. Grey retorted that this was oppression. That if in defence of public rights, endangered by class legislation, freedom of speech was denied him, he would sit down protesting against the Chairman's tyranny.—Swanscn defended the property vote, contending that all the liberal measures they had were the result of legislation passed in virtue of the existing frauchise. Referring to the remarks made on the previous occasion in allusion to the writings of Carlyle, wherein the matter occurs in reference to the blessing of honest poverty, Mr Swanson said there was a great deal of sentimental trash said and written on the subject: but his experience was that everyone was more anxious than another to get quit of it and acquire for themselves an independence.— Sir G. Grey asked to be allowed to say a few words, to which the Chairman replied that he would not be allowed to transgress the ordinary rules of debate. The imputation of tyranny was a most unjustifiable one.—After a few words from Mr Seddon, Sir George Grey said he did not think it desirable for him to mix with Swanson in political matters, as Swanson was a man of property, and had a compact in his pocket, making him either one of the Government or the master of the Government. Swanson's whole speech was in favor of the influence of wealth, and of rendering it impossible for the poor man to acquire property. He himself was opposed to any other franchise than the manhood one; but if the freehold one was to be maintained, be thought the evil might be mitigated by the leasehold franchise beingi also allowed. After further debate, he' was alluding to the Council's rejection of the Law Practitioner's Bill, when the Chairman ruled him out of order, whereupon, after a pause, he said he supposed they must speak of their masters in another place. He continued to speak on a variety of points until the usual adjournment for half an hour, at 10.30.

■LATER. Wellington, This day, 9.40 a.m. At 1.30 a.m., Major Atkinson called attention to Reeves' threat to speak till eight o'clock, when a discussion followed as to whether the business of the Committee was being conducted in " an orderly manner," in the course of which Sheehan, Whitaker, Seddon, and Turnbull took< part. , , The Chairman (Seymour),, however, ruled that the order did not go far enough to warrant him in putting a stop to the carrying on of the debate by Reeves. Atkinson quoted from May the words, "nor use the rule of the House in order to obstruct public'business," and asked the ruling of the Chairman as to whether they did not apply prohibitively to the tactics of the Opposition.

The Chairman ruled that it was not competent for him to put a limit to any period during which a member might choose to speak. At Sheehan's instance, the question arose as to whether a deputy chairman, nominated by the Chairman of Commit* tees on vacating the chair, should carry out the rulings of the Chairman, irrespective of his own opinions. Seymour ruled that he should do so, and that each successive deputy chairman .should carry out what he believed would beithe ruling of the permanent Chairman of Committees. Beeves moved that the Chairman leave , the chair.—Ayes 7, noes 24. Hdmlin, on the nomination of Seymour, then took the chair. Seddoa moved that progress be reiported. He commenced speaking at 1.15 fa.m.,.and spoke until 3 39, when a division took place'—Ayes 4, noes 23. Seddon then moved that the Chairman do leave the chair, resuming his review of the Westland Electoral Roll. After J reading one name, the Chairman, Col. Trimble (who had relieved Hamlin), ruled Seddon out of order.

Seddon quoted Seymour's ruling, but the chairman maintained that his ruling was correct. Seddon then amid cries of " order" protested against being " sat upon." The Chairman appealed to the House for protection, and Seddon apologised ironically, and proceeded without further reference to the roll, basing his remarks on the Schedule. At 4.40 the Committee divided on the question (hat progress be reported ; ayes 8, noes 24. Seddon then moved that the Chairman leave the chair. Fisher asked if Seddon was in order. The Chairman explained that he felt his bauds tied by the ruling of Seymour, but he would take the earliest opportunity should he again occupy the chair, to exercise his own judgment, and do his best to get the Committee out of the difficulty in which it was. ' Several motions that the Chairman do leave the Chair, and that progress be reported were moved and negatived. At this staee the Chairman intimated that if the Opposition pursued the present

course, he would have "a painful duty to perform." (Shortly before this the sergeant-at-arms, who was at the moment in another part of the House, was sent for by the Chairman.) Shepherd followed at some length, supporting the question that progress be reported. Sheelian followed, and spoke until 7.15, when the question to report progress was put;; ayes 3, noes 24. Gibbs followed at 8 20, when Bryce took the chair, and at once told Gibbs that he must keep his remarks to bear on the .Representation Bill. Still sitting. Latest.

Wellington, 12.45 p.m. Pitt followed at 8.25, and continued until 9.4, when Levestam addressed the Committee, and spoke until 10. He was followed by Speight, when Bryce was relieved from the chair, his place being taken by Thomson. During his speech, the Premier pointed out that the bill did not absolutely settle the members of the House to be ninety-one, intimating that the number of the members could be altered on the recommittal of the Bill. Speight finished speaking at 11.50. Swanson then commented upon the operation of the property vote in Auckland.