PARLIAMENTARY.

Thames Star, Volume XII, Issue 3920, 22 July 1881, Page 2

PARLIAMENTARY.

(Pj3B Pfl^SS ASBOPUTION.)

. Wellington, Thursday, j .NOCON^IDEIfCE DEBATE. CON- ! TINUED. The debate'on the no-confidence motion ,was resumed by Mr button. r He criticised Mr Wood's^peech, contending that it did not toucjv the. real question at issue, and defended the Houae against the imputation that ifc did not possess capacity to redress all grievances brought before it, The position jn whjph Mr Ormopd--had placed himself was "a most anomalous, one, and the Gp.uotry would:blame lump and any party yvitUwhon? Jip had ailied« himself for theatetion; taken- jn defeating, for another session at least, (he passage of the of Seacs Bill, so anxiously looked for by the country.

igf" =* A Mr Russell also spoke in favour of the 3overnment. The effect of the motion, f carried, would be to bring into office a jlass of men wh se avowed policy was to •esorfc to . Provincialism. The policy jhunciated by Mr Saunders was impolitic n the; highest degree. The ''complaint ibout want of means of redress was unfounded. No complaint against County Councils or Koad Boards had comefrom. without. All the cry against them had sriginated within -that Hoiue. But for the premature repeal of the New Provinces' Act of 1857 he quite believed that this difficulty would not have arisen, as it jQirtiainecl powers for establishing a system if, jocal self government in accordance with the principle of The Counties system. Mr Seymour recognised in the proposals sf the Government an attempt to give finality in the assistance to be.rendered to local bodies towards -their works. He iefeaded Marlbo|ough at " considerable I [ength'ifnJna the fc^str upon; .it? [ provincial administration by Mr Saunders,' ind'Conci^rred in We opiiripnrexpressedpy.! the previous speaker as to the favourable results which would have followed a.Uiore" lengthened experience , fe of the New Provinces Act. They.had ]local govern, oaent .and he did not see what furthermachinery of that kind was wanted. ' Taiaroa condemned the rating of native lands. Mr Bunny strongly condemned the amendment, and supported the Government. He thgught a«change of Ministry at the present time would be inopportune and disastrous, and he could not give a vote likely to so result. If the present Government went out no one could say who would come in. lie thought Abolition had been a great mistake, and so far he agreed with Mr Ormond, but it was done, and could not be undone, and now their duty was to do the best they could to improve the institutions they had. Mr VVeston thought the amendment did not bring the question of the.past administration of the Ministry into question on the direct issue it had raised He could not vote for it; at the same time he could not approve of the present proposals of Government. Either they went too for or not far enough. The Government should gracefully withdraw their proposals. .X tally there were no powers prjposed to be given to local: bodies, which they did not already possess. He could not approve of using the public trust funds in the way proposed for local government purposes. Doing so they would impair the credit of the colony. He condemned the prooosed public works board. He objected strongly to the proposals to rate Crown lands, and read a telegram from the Couuty- Cojuncil of Grey Valley objecting to tlie proposal -\ that the County would, under the proposals, have £2400 with which to maintain upwards of 100 miles of main roads. He also objected to the rating of native lands without the concurrence of the natives. He did not think the issues raised by the present debate sufficiently important to •justify going to the country upon. If tne^pPlposfvls »v,*-sfe% adopted this session, probably they would Be repealed next session by the new Parliament, and no harm could, be done by letting them stand over. He characterised Sir G. Grey's bill as even more wild and visionary than the Treasurer's proposals. It was really a scheme of separation in ofisguise. The country would never accept such a schemed He especially condemned the proposal to have elective judges. The reference Sir G. Gx'ey had made to the present judges was unkind, unjusl, cruel, and utterly unfounded. He thought the House was too cumbrous a machine to do the work devolving on it now, and that the Government were called on to do a great deal they; should not ,be * troubled with. ■ This being so, he thought the proposals of Mr Saunders might be moulded into a useful form, father than impose taxation in the manner proposed, he would prefer increased customs: duties, or rather a tax on wool. While condemning the Government policy and recognising in Mr Saundcrs's scheme the elements of practicability, he recognised that Government had had much unpleasant work to perform and had done it well. He was not now on the issue raised, ready to eject them from office and hurry, on a general election to be probably followed by a second election in a few months, at an enormous cost to the colony. In 'a "few months they would all in ordinary course go to the country, and to precipitate a dissolution now was unnecessary, and would be mischievous. He should vote against the. amendment, and if the Government Bills were pressed on he would also vote against them. Sir George Grey explained that his remarks about the Judges were made in consequence of remarks made by a Judge of known centralistic tendencies to f a jury a few days before. He would have no hesitation ill repeating the statement under similar circumstauces, Mr Hall stronely condemned the remarks of- Sir G. Grey about the judges, and which ha*d been made worse by his explanation. He denied there was any public demand for a change, in their governing institutions. All that was" desired was for.'the assistance necessary to enable existing institutions to satisfactorily perform, -the duties devolving on them. He defended the action of Governim&nt in slopping public works, and showed how nece§sary : ,such had been to preserve the credit of the colony. JMotwithstanding.tho drag put on. however, two millions had been spent.on public works during the last twelve months. As long as this House retained as it shculd do the sole power "of legislation, it would be impossible to relieve it of dealing with local questions. lie defended existing local bodies as distributing the work of local gevernment amoDg the people, and producing excellent results. Sir G. Grey's 'proposal was Ho establish not nine but twenty provinces. At considerable length he criticised Sir G. Grey's proposals.

LATER.

.',,..,- i; . / ti Wellington, This day. ■ / cjeb'^te was continued by Mr Hall, who'at considerable lpngth replied to the remarks-madtt by Sir .George Grey, Mr Ormondi Mr Reader 1 Wood, arid Mr Saunder^. .He.'.also fully recapitulated proposals made .by .Majo^ Atkinson, and contended that/they- would .fairly distribute the power amongst the people, and enable tho.looal bodies to perform theiri functiorisi satisfactorily.; At the same time the Government was not wedded'to the details, but would in Committee gladly 'accept "any amendment • calculated tbv iionprove them. He very •gtrongly conjoined Mr Ormond's condupt in deserting his party without notice, and said'jt strijpk the rpot of i»l| party government $ V the; essential of which was confldence bptween' members of a party. Unless the Goyeromeot had' a majority tiiey could not attempt to carry a liedistribution of Seats Bill through, and Mr

Ormond must either be prepared to take office and carry such a Bill, or accept the responsibility of going to the country without' it. The Government would in any event look back on their two years' administration with satisfaction^ and he acknowledged that whaever good they had been abe to achieve was owing to the generous support of their party.%. ■< Sir George Grey heartily commiserated the position of Ministers who bad reached the end of their tether. They deserved that fate, however, for they had allowed "circumstances to guide' theirppHcy, instead of by their policy creating circumstances! He denied that he was ever insane enough to propose to restore provincialism. In the national life there was no going ''back, but wbat he and his friends wantfti was -to take a step in advance and cieate something better than the old provincial institutions. He stated j the present system of local Government i.with its plural .voting waa,'a system 'devised by a certain class of men to save ■ their allotted wealth, and he felt degraded rliving under such a system. He wanted to give men equal rights, and as in America to give them the power of making their own T^wsjTand determining the force of their institutions. The-people of every district in the colony were as capable of doing this as" that House was, and again, elected •judges were no novelty in England. Many corporations elected their Records, and he would hare more confidence in a judge elected by the people than in one appointed by tbat House. His plan of Government would reduce taxation to a minimum, give all men equal rights, and open reward for legitimate ambition to energy, ability, and merit. He would have all the Property Tax returns made public, and the legal and other professions thrown open. He called on all who loved their country and wished to give JN'ew Zealand free inslitutions to vote for the amendment. Mr Saunders said that when he spoke in condemnation of the Government proposal he had very little idea ,of what: was to follow. He had before speaking tried privately to get Government to withdraw or alter their proposals, but they "would not budge. " ; 'He' defended Mr Ormond from the personal attacks made on him bj Mr Wakefield and Mr ; Whitaker, who he said had also i summarily dismissed him from their party. He, however, could not take his dismissal, and he cou)d:not vote for the amendment, as its effect might i-be to; restore Sir George Grey and Mr Sheehan! to office. If Grey and Macandrew were j out of the way a true Liberal Ministry i might be formed in place of the existing coalition, but he would never doauything; which might have the effeU of restoring them to office. ' Mr Hursthouse moved the adjournment of the debate. The House rose at 12.50.