PARLIAMENTARY.

Thames Star, Volume XII, Issue 3912, 13 July 1881, Page 2

PARLIAMENTARY.

(Pee Press Association.)

Evening Sittingl, THE LICENSING BILL.

The Licensing Bill was recommitted for consideration of clauses 12, 22 to 28 inclusive, 30, 31, 32, 37, 54, 81, 122, 126, 137, 140, 141, 194, and 218.

On clause 12, the amendment to make the election of licensing Committee triennial instead of annual was rejected by 39 to 34. The clause was then amended to make the cost of elections chargeable to district. -

Clause 28, preventing any licensees having an interest in more than one license was amended so as not to apply to firms, on division, of 46- to 20, and was then struck out altogether.

Od clause 29, Mr Russell moved the omission of club licenses. This was lost on a division of 37 to 18.

CEOWN AND NATIVE LANDS EATING BILL Major Atkinson moved the second reading of the Crown and Native Lands Eating Bill. In doing so he wished «to state thq views of Government on the whole question of local self-government, which he believed was agitating the^minds Ot members a great deal more than it was the mind of the country. He did not intend to press the second reading of the bill that night. The first difficulty in the question was that no two members seemed agreed as to what local government meant —thus Sir Geo. Grey wanted a re-estab-lishment of Provincialism, not local government, while Mr Wood's desire was for the establishment of sovereign states with federal government; and Air Ormond wanted, not local government, but something between local government | and general "government; and Mr Murray wanted something else. JNone of them touched the-real question of local government.- If members wanted something ehe,Tt6fy r'should say what it was, and- call-, it by its proper name, and not miscall it local government. Government held that the country had got local government already. If people were consulted.'jfhe Cbunttes and Road Boards would remain the local government of the" country.: > What the country desired was a simplification of what it already possessed ; its extension in certain directions, and sufficient funds to work with. He denied the assertion frequently made that local government had disappeared with the provinces, and all ljcal administrative powers had been centred.in Wellington He held.a return of all the local powers so centred/. Of all the administrative provincial acts 20 were now administered from Wellingtoni and of these 13 must,.under anyfcircumstances, be so administered as being of general application. Of'-the; other'seven, four might with advantage be dealt with locally. These were—the Animals Protection, Licensing, Cemeteries,; and Auctioneers. The others were—Land, Neglected Children, - and Bankruptcy. The remaining Acts were either administered locally or jointly,/ must necessarily be so instead 6$ centralising. Government had decentr.ajj.sed, and were decentralising administration aa; iar'"as possible. They had given local bodies many powers formerly centralised 'in provinces. As to Mr Ofmond's allegations that grievances had now no remedy, itiwas the first duty of that House to remedy all grievances, aud if they did not do it, they should do so ; they could not hand over the duty to any inferior body. Me reviewed at length the present constitution of both general and local governing bodies. First, the question was —were all these bodies necessary? Could they not be amalgamated and made more efficient ? He thought very little good could be done by abolishing any of the existing bodies. There was great difficulty in getting competent men to administer affairs. It was therefore better to get men interested in special subjects, who were willing to give up their time to deal with those subjects only. This was the case with the liiver Boards, Harbour Boards, Education Boards, etc. There was no leisure clasa here able to give up time to large bodies dealing with all these subjects. As to Waste Lands Boards, he had no great love for them, and Government had it in contemplation to abolish them and to consult County Councils in all questions affecting land within the counties. As to boroughs, Government thought local government was working very satisfactory, although they, perhaps, wanted more money. As to County Councils and Road Boards, no two persons seemed agreed as to what should be done in some places. The County did tlie work in some, the lload Boards \n others, but in no case had they been asked to join two counties. It' the ratepayers wished union of this kind, they would effect it. One point on which all these bodies were agreed was a desire to get more money. There was still a feeling abroad that money could be obtained in some other way thau out of the pockets of the ratepayers. They must recognise the fact that (.hero was no other way of getting money than out of their own uockets. This was the fiew on which the Government scheme of local finance was founded ; it was founded, not on a partnership or land fund, but on the principle that all obtained from the land should be expended on the land. He held that the scheme would supply all the wants of the local bodies. If the Opposition did not accept this scheme, they should, in duty to the country, bring down some other proposal to meet the necessities of the country. He was prepared to fight for his own scheme. Government held that every facility should be given for counties amalgamat ing, and for merging road boards. They propose to delegate to Councils all powers of administration under local or general Acts, which could be delegated safely; also to give power to counties to levy the rates for road boards, and where the road boards deserve it, to spend the money on them on definite works. It was proposed also to give county councils the powers now exercised by Government as to road board boundaries, and until the Property Tax valuation roll was available to allow the existing valuation rolls to be used with an annual amendment. Then as to road boards, Government propose to introduce an Act to simplify road board machinery, [especially in regard to elec tions, for which the Local Elections Act was too cumbersome. This would be a permissive act. Extended powers for merging would also be given boards. No portion of a county should be outside of road boards, and as far as possible road districts should be the electoral districts of the country. As to hospital and charitable aid boards, he considered them absolutely necessary, and that the district must necessarily be* large iv order to

provide suitable buildings and medical aid, unless they were to have a Government law administered by officials. They would require these boards to be consisting of people doing the work for love, and administering local contributions. He be/Heved these proposals would meet all legitimate demands for local self government.

Sir George Grey considered Government had arrived at a lame and impotent conclusion to satisfy tbe wants of 500,000 people. He contended that no real local government now existed in New Zealand. The ways votes in local districts were proportioned to property rendered real local government impossible, and for this Government proposed no remedy. He denied that there was no other way of getting money than out of the people's pockets. There were other means which easily could be got at, and which the House, he was sure, would get at sooner or later. He,had been taunted about not really meaning to introduce a Local Government Bill, but the only hint he had yet given on the subject had been eagerly seized on by the Government, and that was as to the rating of native land and the method of collecting tbe rates. The Government had, he was glad to say, taken his suggestion. His bill was now in the hands of the printer. v-He was not afraid to show his hand. Alls,bis cards-; were the -property of the people of New Zealand, and, it was for them to say how they were to be played. _ There should be large local bodies constituted, taking in the whole of the counties and boroughs, and then full powers should be given' to the people in those districts to,determine the form for their own administering such local institutions, so as best to meet their i own requirements. All the present woes of thepeople arose from the abolition of provincial institutions, without any commensurate substitute being provided, The people, should be given full power to manage their own affairs, and determine the form of institutions best calculated to meet their own necessities. A very short measure could provide a complete system of self-government. Ample powers for making byejlaws should be given. The geographical formation of the colony re'nderedsuch a system necessary and desirable. The local bodies should have power to make bye-laws on almost all subjects on which!provinces used to legislate, while he wn^ild, not give them power to legislate on external or internal defence. He thought the Volunteer force might be placed under, local control. He thought the Volunteer force likely to become the finest force in the world. They should not be allowed to pass bye-laws about telegraphs and one or two other matters, but should have power to make all regulations for mining purposes. He denied that the House could ever do justice to the whole colony: in redressing grievances. It could not sit long enough or bear the expense.; Power to redress grievances promptly and on the spot should be given to local bodies to establish Courts having large powers, but inferior to Supreme Court power, and power to appoint their own judges should be given, and thus justice be brought to each man's door, and then they would no longer have the bench occupied by judges actuated by stern party feelings, and by reducing the work of the central Government to one half. If the House could be reduced, and.theother chamber found to be a redundant blessing with which they could dispense, there would be plenty of money available for local bodies. The surplus revenue, after making provision for general purposes, should be divided amongst ihe local bodies in proportion to their population. Eates on Crown and native lands should be imposed by local districts, and be expended by them, the rate being the same as on all other property. Large landed endowments should be granted to the local bodies and rendered inalienable. In time the rents from these should free the people from all taxation, and provide for all their wants. Future generations would bless them if they did this ; but the Government proposed a continuance of a system of legislation belonging to an expiring civilisation, instead of welcoming the new civilisation which was dawning upon the earth. Mr McLean said he would like to see Sir George Grey's bill, and consider the whole matter more fully before going on with the debate. He accordingly moved its adjournment. This was, after some discussion, agreed to. The debate is to be resumed at 7.30 on Tuesday evening next. Later. Wellington, This day. The consideration of the Licensing Bill was then resumed. The proposal to restore the bottle license was lost on a division of 38 to 31; and the proposal to strike out the New Zealand wine license by 33 to 32. On Mr Stewart's motion the following was inserted, on a division of 3(3 to 25 : —Bottle licenses may be issued in all districts in which such licenses at present exist. The proposal to make the hour for ordinary closing 11 o'clock, instead of 10 o'clock, was lost ou the voices ; aud in clause 32 the strength of proof spirits in New Zealand wine was reduced from 30 to 20 per cent. The proposals to abolish the fee for 12 o'clock extension, and to reduce it to £2, was negatived, and also the proposal to strike out the additional fee for extra bars was negatived on division of 33 to 26. In clause 63 provision was made for seven days' notice of objection ; aud in clause 80, sub section 4, the reference to premises for which a license is applied for being in the vicinity of places of worship, echools, and hospitals was struck out. Progress was reported, and the House rose at 12 55.