Evening Sitting.

Thames Star, Volume X, Issue 3380, 22 October 1879, Page 2

Evening Sitting.

The House reassembled at 7.30.

With the consent of the House the Premier was allowed to read a memorandum from the Governor relative to a statement made by Sir Geo. Grey to the effect that, in accepting his (Mr Hall's) resignation as a member of the Legislative Council, he had not given his Excellency any advice. The Memorandum stated that Grey in speaking of Mr Hall's resignation of his seat in the Upper House said, the Governor had committed a personal act in accepting the resignation without -advice. Anyone reading that might think tho resignation had been accepted by the Governor without the concurrence of his Ministry. The fact* were these: Upon the 18th August, tho Governor

received a letter from Mr Hall, tendering his resignation. On the 19tb of August, the Premier called upon the Governor, his business being, as lie stated, to speak about Mr Hall's resignation of his seat in the Council. The Premier said he considered such resignation a most improper proceeding, and opposed to the spirit and intention of the Constitution Act, as, the appointment being binding on the Crown for life, the obligation implied mutibility. He said Mr Hall had twice before left the Council to stand for the House of Eepresontatives and that it was within his acknowledge that was the object of the present resignation. He said he had always deprecated such a proceeding, and as he considered the necessity tor the Government's acceptance of the resignation Rare the Governor a discretion in the matter, and enabled his Excellency to judge of the propriety of the resignation. He could not advise in a case like Mr Hall's that the resignation should be accepted. The C3overnor -in reply pointed out that the Constitution Act did not pveveut a member from resigning his seat in the. Council, and the fact of his having been a member of that body did not prevent bis taking a seat in Jthe Lower House. The Governor therefore refused to lend himself to any device to place one of the Premier's political opponents under a disability not imposed by law. The Premier expressed his strong disapproval of a member leaving the Upper for the Lower House. The Governor had the acceptance under Ministerial advice. The Governor replied that this Tiew was undoubtedly true, but that the Governor i could not always accept Ministerial advice. In this case, if sucli e ßdvice was tendered, lie should unquestionably refuse it, which would leave the Premier with the constitutional alternative of a resigna : tion or acquiescence in the refused. The Governor added that unless the Premier was prepared to resign he did not see how the tendering of informal advice would vindicate his character for political consistency. The Premier left saying he would consult with such of his colleagues as were in Wellington, and let the Governor hear farther on the subject. Attached to the memo was a budget of correspondence that had passed between His Excellency and the Ministry. On the motion of Sir George Grey, the Memorandum was laid on the table. He said that the statement of the Governor was accurate and fair._ At the same time he would not admit that it contained everything that had passed on the occasion referred tc. The Governor had used very harsh statements regarding him, whereas he (Sir George Grey) had used no such terras towards him. He thought whatever had passed between the Governor and his Ministers, in the interest of the public should be made public. In future he would, so far as, he was concerned, insist upon such being done. Mr DeLatour moved an amendment that the Premier, in communicating the Governor's opinion on an unpublished speech, with the view of influencing this House has been quality of a gross breach of privilege of the House. Mr Hall pointed out that the memorandum was a communicaeion to himself, and that he communicated it to the House on the distinct motion that it should be read, and not a single voice wns raised against the motion for reading the document. Mr Montgomery spoke against the remarks made against the late Premier by the Governor. At same time as the House sanctioned its being read he thought the amendment should be withdrawn. Mr Downie Stewart said he saw do necessity for the Governor to have followed the course he had done, and maintained that it should have been sent in the form of a message that the House might have had an opportunity for making a reply. He blamed the Premier for having shifted the responsibility of reading the document when he should^ have been prepared to accept the responsibility himself. . Mr Eolleston said that it was a constitutional principle well established that some Minister or other was responsible for every act of the Crown. In that case there could be no doubt but that the Premier of the late Government was the responsible party for Mr Hall's resignation. He hoped they would not conn, tenance an attempt to hold Ministers irresponsible for the acts of the Crown. If any Minister disagreed with what the Crown or Governor proposed doing it was their bounden duty to resign. j Mr Gisborne said the late Government took the constitutional responsibility for this act of the Crown. What they objected to was, that the Governor, founding his opinions upon reports, practically speaking anonymous, should reflect as he had done on the speech of a member of the House. • . Mr Wakefield blamed the late Premier for having introduced the subject into the debates of the House. The course pursued by the Governor had been forced upon him by the injudicious conduct of Sir Geo. Grey. He (Sir G. Grey) had spoken about the impolicy of communications passing between the Governor and Ministers being kept secret. , At the end of last session he (Mr Wakefiold) had asked the late Premier a question,as to what had passed between himself and the Governor re the dissolution, and the reply made by Sir George Grey was, that he could not tell what had then passed between them. Anyone reading the memorandum could not help feeling that the Governer was hostile to him (bir b-. Maior Atkinson quoted from Hansard to show that Sir G. Grey had stated distinctly that the resignation was accepted without advice. He deprecated the practice of drawing the name of the Governor into their debates, it had never been done until Sir George Grey took his seat in the House. As a Government they would be quite prepared to accept the responsibility for what the Governor might do. . Mr DeLatour said that not having been in the House when the matter was brought up he was not aware ib was read with the consent of the House. He would therefore beg leave to withdraw the amendment. The motion for printing the document was also withdrawn and the subject dropped.

TBIENNIAL PARLIAMENTS HIM. On the motion fer the second reading of the Triennial Parliaments Bill; &£r Macandrew moved the previous question.. Mr Hall pointed out. that the bill proposed that Triennial Parliaments should como into force at once, whereas the bill of the late Government proposed to delay the coming into operation until the close of the present Parliament. He said nothing would be gained by this, obstruction, as the Government «t<4 ita

supporters were determined that its measures; would be placed before the country, and having done so, they would be prepared to go on with the other business.

Mr Header Wood said they desired this bill to pass, hup having been told that supplies were required they wanted their supplies to be voted before anything else wa< done.

Major Atkinson said it was a mere pretence, they were not prepared to> grant supplies. They merely wanted a eliance for attacking them, so as to make up lor their bad generalship in the past. The Government, however, were determined not to have business trifled with any longer. The fact was that they' were not sincere in their professions to grant Supplies. They wanted an opportunity to pass a vote of no confidence. If Supplies were not passed without delay, he could just tell them that there was very great danger of the Bill not being passed at all. If it was throvrn out, as proposed, it could not be got up again on the Order Paper this session.

Mr Sheehau said they possessed' a majority in the other House. If the Government stood to their resolution not to bring on the no confidence motion, then these measures would fall. The threat about a dissolution he scouted. They had just come back from the country, and such a thing dare not take place. He trusted the House wonld not be influenced by a threat of that kind. It was limply an empty and unmeaning threat. He charged tho Government with being in a minority, and challenged them to come to a vote at ones. Delay was occasioned bj. persons pretending to lead the House who could not pas 9 a single" measure. They were keeping those who could pass i them from doing so. He hoped no one would be carried away by the threat of a dissolution. It was simply a device —one which he himself had resorted to a couple of years ago. They claimed the Bill as their, property, and they were determined that they alone would past it. M r McLean pointed to the late Govern* nient as one of the most incompetent that .had ever sat on the benches; they had brought the finances of the country into a deplorable state; they had committed the country to one half of a £5,000,000 loan which had not been negotiated, and the negotiation of which he feared was in anything but a promising state. Mr Toatnana remarked :—I only wish" to say a few words. I listened attentively to the statement of the Native Minister, and after I heard that statement I became very dark within myself. I failed to gather anythiug from it that would benefit the Maori people. It is true that I said when I voted with Mr Hall that I would give my vote as a chief. What I' * have to say now is that the Government must look for someone else to fill my place on these benches. I have voted as a chief and I leave these benches now as ■ a chief, as I am not satisfied with the, policy of the Ministry or that it will be auy benefit to the Maori people.

The Hon. member then left the Government benches and crossed the House, bowing to the Speaker as he did so.

Mr Andrews said he was free to take whatever course he chose; he was left unfettered by his constituents, and he was most desirous of expediting business, and if a dissolution would do so, he would be quite prepared to. accept tbat alternative. As things stood he felt the Government was in a minority, and he never could think of supporting a Government so situated. If Government was left where it was, he had no doubt but that they would eventually find a majority, that, however, was a thing he did not propose doing.

: Col. Trimble said Government offered to bring on a motion this day, and met with a flat refusal, and yet the Opposition pretended they were desirous of going on with the business.

Mr Hutcliinson argued that the , Government not having the confidence of the House, they mast be held responsible for obstructing the business. Mr TurnbaU expressed admiration of : the conduct of Tomoana and hoped the other members of the Ministry irould follow his example. Mr Rolleston stated hia determination to stick to the Government Benches and - on no account relinquish them to the Opposition. Mr Hall said that a division would not be accepted as a vote of no-confidence. Mr Murray said he would decline to recognise the rote as one of want of confidence, and would vote in the hope of shelving the Bill to which he was opposed. The adjournment of the debate was moved by the Minister for Public Worka on which tho House divided —Ayes, 31 j Noes, 37. . . # , The previous question on the Triennial Parliaments Bill was then carried on the Voices, and at 1.15 a.m. the House adjourned.