EVENING SITTING.

Thames Star, Volume X, Issue 3362, 1 October 1879, Page 2

EVENING SITTING.

On the House resuming at 7.30, f The Hon. Mr Hall, in rising to more the amendment, congratulated the mover and seconder of the Address. The former he said was essentially a working man, oue with whom ho had been associated in the Provincial Coupcil of Otago. He hoped other speakers in this debate would follow the same moderate tone they had taken. He denied, however, that the Government supporters, as they had set forth, represented a larger number of the inhabitants of the colony than did the Opposition. He quoted a number of instanceg to prove this. The facts were, that a few districts in the North had pro* nounced in favour of Government, while those South had done quite the opposite. It was remarkable, in fact, that there were only 80 or 10 between these and the quccessful candidate. The hon. gentleman had not gone far enough in his calculation; the fact was, the South was against the Premier, if there was a majority in the North. Ho did not yet know how the , West Coast would go if the Opposition ! had acted in a manner which would have given them the greatest advauta^o. That was the way the Government had done, but that waa not the spirit in which they

had aclcd. Irrespective of party considerations, it. was fJieir duly to bring to an issue the point as to whether the Government did possess the confidence of the House, and with this view he had to propose the amendment to the Address, of which he had already given notice. He maintained that the Government had altogether failed to give effect to the Liberal measures and economical schemes which they had alluded to, and promised to bring about when they got into office. The fact was, they had increased the extravagance they had promised to. do away with. They had increased the salaries they promised to cut down, and had shrunk from affecting many administrative reforms which they might have brought about. They had deliberately abandoned some things tending to economy, and had succeeded in getting members to relinquish measures tending to reform. In one case two Ministers who opposed the reduction of Ministers' salaries were rewarded by being created J P.'s at the close of the session. As to the native expenditure, instead of any economy they had the fact that it had exceeded former expenditure by £20,000 this year, and the result were not nearly so satisfactory, if they might judge by newspaper reports. From day to day they had under a former administration gone on improving its native affairs, and if Sir Donald McLean had lived they might have seen a different state T)f affairs today, but the Maori King, as far as he could gather, had shown that his antagonism was more pronounced than it was when the present Native Minister came into office (hear, hear). As to the chief Eewi, he would like to know What they had to expect from him ? What was the condition respecting which they heard so much, in connection with his name oh the West Coast ? They had a condition of affairs for which, as usual, of course, the Government was not to, blame. He had a letter from an orgau which received Government advertisements purporting to give a conversation between a settler on the West Coast and Mackay referring to broken Government pledges, which clearly showed that Government was to blame for blundering leading to the turning of surveyors off the land. This was from a friendly source, and ought therefore to be credited. He contended that there was a state of lawlessness unequalled in native affairs? There was a darkness and mystery hanging over native affairs and expenditure, and far too much Government individuals instead of a responsible Minister, and a change in this respect was desirable. He next came to the question of finance, a very important one, which all were anxious to solve. There was a large deficit in the first instauce from the land revenue, a condition which they could not reasonably expect to be otherwise. As to the loan, he contended that it had been ask.d for on a very insufficient basis, although it was for a larger sum than had ever been asked for before. They were never informed as to how this great sum was to be expended; they bad no financial statement, but in its place in Hansard they had a few remarks to the effect that the reporters were misled, thinking that the statement was being read as usual, when it was found there was rca'ly no statement at all. He next accused the Government of tampering with the Pre9s of the country by unfairly distributing the Government advertisements, and influencing the newspapers accordingly. Some IS months ago a paper, supported by the Ministry, was started in Wellington, and advertisements were taken from the old established journal; this a'so was the case in another firm in the district he came from— tie city of Cliristchurch; the advertisements were withheld from one newspaper because that journal was unfavorable to Ministers, and in a copy he had recently receiv-d he found no . less than two columns of Government advertisements published gratuitously, which were inserted in the other aud paid for. In the matter of ihe special wire, the unfair conduct of the Government was also apparent ; whilst one newspaper opposed to the Government was obliged to pay so large a sura for the use of the wire in comparison with the organs oi the Government. He next referred to the unfair conduct of the Government in connection with the Civil Service. They had removed members of the Service, and mpde appointments which were uncalled for. They bad passed over old servants and called into existence men such as Mr Luckie, who had no Drevious acquaintance with the duties of the office to which they were called, perhaps because of some .poliiic.il support rendered. He next referred to the irregularity in the appointment of a magistrate to a seaport town which, for six months, had been left unprovided for, and the administration of the. law in Lyttelton was left to the Justices. The matter of the Aldington Gaol was well known ; the building was too limited for the prisoners, and yet no authority could be obtained to make alterations, which could easily have been done, if sanctioned. He next referred to the want of proper provision for the insane, which was scandalously insufficient in Chrisichurch, and was reported on by a medical man as diabolical. He^ could quote column after column directing the attention of Government to this state of affairs, but all to no purpose. It was true a contract was in hand for providing accommodation for 40, when there were 170 on the books, and the old building falling to decay* and totally inadequate for the purpose. He was aware that Government were frequently blamed for ; the acts of their supporters, but he contouded that .they were greatly to blame themselves, and so far as the present Government were concerned he had never known one to equal them in extravagance and misrule. He maintained that the Premier was totally unfitted for the position he occupied. He was decidedly too autocratic for such an olßce. His treatment of his colleagues and of his electorate were sufficient evidence of this. It has beqn said that party Government was essential to Parliamentary Government; but the question was r whether they should have a mere personal Government instead of constitutional, in which men were to be chosen for their honesty an*i ability to administer the affairs of the country. Referrnj; to the appeal to the country, he contended that the Government bad taken an unfair advantage of their position to gain their own ends; special trains and steamers had been employed. The Hinoinoa had been run off her legs. If they wished to act fairly, they should have placed one of their steamers at the disposal of the Opposition. If that had been dono they might now see the late leader of the Opposition in hia seat. (Laughter). Thej had heard since they came into the House how the telegraph had becu died for

ck-ciionuerinsj purposes aad how lelegrams had been franked which should have been paid for as private inessuges on political business. If they used tlio telegraph t'r political purposes they should have paid for messages. Then again for the commencing of certain public works. By some curious coincidence it was so arranged thtt the time when these elections took place, certain necessary works were commenced. Certain public works at Ross* on the West Coast were cited as a case in point. > The hustings speech of the member for ! that 'district was produced and read, showing that while a whole column was taken up with promises respecting these •■ works, not more than four lines were devoted to a communication of his political opinions. The Speaker went on to say ; tliat with all the influences which had ; been brought to bear in these constituent i eies, what chance was there left for au i Opposition Candidate. The visit of the ; Premier to Christchurch was next referred > to, when that gentleman not baring any ' other thing to give the electors of that city ■ he gave them a clock. On a subsequent i visit of the Premier an application waa , made to him to know when the local . subsidies would be paid, the reply was : "Next day," and they were paid. i Accordingly a neighboring district in i which he (Mr Hall) was interested, made b a similar application, but up to the i present time its subsidies had never been I received. Mr Hall went en to urge that ■ if the Government took upon themselves t to use Government steamers for their own , private purposes they might just as well I use other Government property for i the same purposes. Years ago it had been r laid down, that an abuse of this kind l in the Imperial Parliament was a very J serious one indeed,' and he hoped the r House would be prepared to affirm that > doctrine. The speaker then, proceeded j to discuss various articles of the Govern* I ment policy. He argued that with 5 reference to the Trieunial Parliament, r because it appeared to be the wish of the r colony he would support it, bnt his own i idea was that a four year* parliament > would, in the first instance, hare been > much better for the State. A redistribui tion of seats he also agreed with; he felt t that a readjustment of taxation was also I required; however, it should be adjusted . on a "fair and broad basis. Then again t points of social reform were urgently > required. It reflected no credit on the ) Government that the Charitable JBills P question was not adjusted on a better basis, t then again one still greater thing was that i the laws they had got should be honestly .* and energetically administered. He did i not believe that would be done by the i Government, and it was for thatreuon l he now moved the amendment. Sir George Grey said he expected quite • a different speech. The charges referred 1 to were trifling, and altogether unworthy ; of the great things the Opposition claimed for the colony in view of a change of Government. The question simply, was ; whether the old state of things would be > swept away and a new state of things 1 instituted.' He had been charged with 1 mal-ad ministration of the affairs of the colony, but it was the Opposition that had : been guilty of mal-administration of the ' law. What tracts of country had they ' acquired for themselves, or what country i hud they gridironcd for their own pur- ' poses P It had been stated that they had - wanted to reduce their own salaries, and 1 that two gentlemen bad been rewarded by > being made J's.P. That was a most 1 absurd and a most unworthy insinuation. 1 He next alluded to the charge about the i Hinemoa, and in doing so, he should [ remind them that this was a peculiar country—cut up into clusters of islands, and the services of a steamer under such circumstances - was absolutely essential. They did not order the steamer. They found the steamer there when they got into office, and he maintained he was entitled to make use of fte steamer going about making himself ' acquainted with the affairs of the colony so as to bring great and important matters affecting the welfare of the colony under the notice of the Parliament. If he had done right he was entitled to the thanks of the colony, and if he had done wrong, the colony would condemn him, but he believed no such condemnation would follow. It had been said that when they came into office native affairs were in a tranquil state, but he denied that statement. Native matters were then in a worse condition than they are now. He denied that the advertisements given to the newspapers could possibly have influenced the Press, and he wondered at any one who could stand and make such a statement—ifc was unwise, unjust and untrue. The charge that no written statements had been mads) regarding the financial statement of the colony was equally untenable; they were on the eve of dissolution, and under such circumstances he made such a statement as he thought right. He would like the Civil Service to be appealed to as to whether or not they had acted unfairly towards it; ho felt satisfied that the service itself would acquaint him of all unfair dealing towards it. The charge cf neglecting to make provision for lunatics was next referred to He had great sympathy with these unfortunates, but he reminded them that provision of the kind was made by the provinces, and. when provincial institutions were abolished no adequate provision had been made for such institsitions. It had been said that his previous education unfitted him for the po3t of Premier, and in urging the point he referred to the injustice done to the colony i in the matter of the Canterbury runs. In connection with the action he took in that matter he was quit? prepared to know that the -squatter interest would pursue him till he died, and that^fcas practically what they were doing now* Referring to the Electoral Bill of last session he contended that the natives hai a double vote independent of that B:ll altogether. What they proposed doing was to get the Bill passed as sent to the Legislative Council, and then the Governm< nt would communicate with the natives with a view of taking away one of their votes. That was precisely what the Legislative Council would allow them to do, and in these circumstances ho considered he acted .right in the course he took with the Bill. He understood, from what had been said, that this fioing about from place to place prevented the electors from understand* ins: the questions at issue, whereas his going about had enabled the electors to undented that issue, and what the Opposition wanted was to prevent his going about, and by that means to keep the* colony in ignorance of thereat stats of flffairsVH'e real point at issue between tke Opposition and Governmeat. He would begin by saying that New Zealand had one of j the freest constitutions of the world, and that constitution was being

destroyed by the Opposition and their friends. They bad already destroyed it, and were never able to establish anything worthy of it in its place. They diminished the resources of the country, and burdened it with an enormous debt, and in that respect they hay© been the enemies of their country. The members on the other side of the House, those all claimed to be Liberals—but what did thoy find ? Why the leader of the Opposition liimself had denied that t!»o franchise was the national right of all men. The speaker then went on to deal with the many evils resulting to othor countries from a restriction of the franchise, so that to that fact was to be charged the numerous evils under which the Mother Country groaned, and the memhers on the other side of the House would be only too willing to see many of these abuses repeated in this colony. It was a mere mockery for th^m to claim for themselves the name of Liberals. He defended the Government against the charge of unfairness in the adjustment of the Incidence of Taxation. He referred to the maladministration of a former Government, the outcome of which was the abuse of the land laws, by vhich the lands of Canterbury had been gndironed, and by wh;ch the men had acquired for themselves and their friends large tracts of country. They were, rapidly coming in this colony to a stale of things similar to what existed in Scotland, Ireland, and England, where a few persons held tracts of country bearing a large proportion to the whole acreage extent of these kingdoms. The result of such ii state of matters was this : it not only impoverished the means, bat it hardened the hearts of thff landlords to the distress of the people. ThM-eal Question was whether a similar system should be proposed in this country, or a new state of things brought about. It was not a question, as it had been alleged, of personal Government which was at issue. That was the real question —the one he had inculcated above, and that was what he and those on his side of the House aimed at establishing in ISew Zealand, and what they would continue to aim at so long as they lived. They cared nothing for the false accusations made against them; they were determined to stand true to the position they had taken up ; they sought for something nobler and something more tbiding than the good opinion of those who sought to defraud New Zealand of its birth-right I

Mr Saunders said that two remarkable speeches had been delivered that night. The one was what he would describe as a terrestrial, and the other a celestial speech; one speech had dealt with the business of the House, the other had taken them to Babylon and other out of the way places. He described the Address in .Reply as a thoroughly contemptible document. He proceeded to combat the assertions made by the Premier to the effect that the Opposition was Liberal in its policy, and proceeded to shew they were quite entitle! to that designation. He maintained that the Government had gone to the country on a false issue, the question was, whether the Government as constituted was to be trusted or not; but that was nqJLthe question raised by the Premier wlitn he went to the country, the question he then raised was as to the straining of certain liberal measures regarding which there was not the slightest dispute. The young Greyites in the House reminded him very much of greyhounds lately introduced into Canterbury. At first the animals took all tfie twists and turns necessary to follow up a hare, but on a better acquaintance they refused to follow these twists and turns and adopted a more straightforward course, and it would be the same with the young Greyites. They followed the Premier for a session or so round all his twists aod.turns, but eventually they saw through him, and preferred a? more straightforward course. Napoleon, had talked of his young recruits as being food for cannon, but Sir George Grey, he understood, talked of hia young recruits as food for gammon, but he (Mr Saunders) looked upon them as the products of gammon, and before long they would see through their leader as clearly as their leader now pretended he saw through them. It was with the affairs of New Zealand they would have to deal, arid not as the Premier had attempted to direct their attention to the affairs of other countries, and the great abuse to which such countries were subjected- He had inquired into the Canterbury g .'idironing system, about which so much had been said, and the quantity of country so gridironed did not exceed SCL'O acres of all the land now sold in the province. The whole proceeding could be illustrated i«i this way, suppose a tradesman take a contract and work it in such a manner as to make it necessary that another contract must be offered to him, that was exactly the position of the gridironing system, and after all it did not amonnt to very much. In reply to the Premier that the Press were not likely to be influenced.by the Government advertisements he reminded them that the papers receiving those advertisements had held up the Government to the admiration of the colony, and that he contended was a complete answer to the Premier's remarks about the insignificance of these advertisements. No one expected much by way of figures and facts, but the Financial Statement of the Government was an abortion far in excess of anything they even looked for. Forty years ago the Premier was on the best possible terms with the squatters, although he now talked about them as being determined to hunt him to death; more than that he used his influence to give these squatters the best of lands and the largest bloifks. The ElectoroLjfrll, he said, came back from the Legislative Council in precisely the same state ia which it had been framed, so that if there was anything wrong in what the Council did, the same offence lay at the door of the Government. In the repetiiion of Maori dual vote reason, and the sole reason why that bill was disallowed, it was strange the Premier always gave a different reason why that Bill was diaallowed. The Premier talked about his desire to enlighten the electors on the occasion of the late elections, but what were the facts of the case, wherever the Premier turned up no one was allowed to say a word in opposition to the views he bad given out, so that in reality the Government steamer had been employed to disseminate a one •idefl. truth. In support of that statement he reminded the House that the Premier voted for the honorarium of last session, while he stated in an election speech in Canterbury lie, had not done so, and when the question came ia he walked out of the House. At 11.50 an adjournment was moved by Mr Speight till to-morrow at 2,30 o'clock, •