HOSPITAL GENERAL COMMITTEE.

Thames Star, Volume VI, Issue 1788, 25 September 1874, Page 2

HOSPITAL GENERAL COMMITTEE.

INVESTIGATION MEETING,

•The adjourned meeting of the above Committee to proceed with the enquiry re the alleged neglect of Maurice Power, was held at 4 o'clock yesterday afternoon^ There were present—Mr. W. Howe (President), Keys. J. Hill, Father Lonnergan, and V. Lush ; Messrs. Frater, Eei:shawi Sims, Mcllhone, Macnab, Hudson, Power, and Souter. There were also in attendance, Drs. Lethbridge, Payue, and Kilgour.

The Secretary read, the minutei of the last meeting, and the report of the investigation as far as it had proceeded, taken by Mr. Berry. At tho conclusion—

The Chairman said : I do not understand the report. In connection with these things important omissions have been made. In the course of the enquiry comparisons were taken between the notes of the Sub-Committee and the evidenc^ In most respects tho notes proved to be correct with the evidence given. I cannoi see how the committee can be satisfied unless the notes be made up—the comparisons should have appeared in the report. Mr. Berry: I have thought a good deal about that point, and came to tho conclusion that it would have been impossible to do it without incorporating the greater part of the notes with the evidence. " The notes were not evidence.

Mr. Hill: It is material that they should appear in the report. We found three of the notes to be correct as compared with the evidence of Dr. Kilgour. Such was tho opinion of the Committee and the witness.

Dr. Eilgour: I stated distinctly, all the points upon which I differed from tho printed report. For instance : I was made to state that I lad seen tho arm once when I "did not—having only seen the patient. The gentlemen who examined me were not medical gentlemen, and were more likely to make mistakes than I was.

Tho Chairman : The first thing before the Committee is that there are most important omissions in the report. The report is before us, and in it there is no reference to the Sub-Committee's report. What we wanted to know was whether the report of the Sub-Committee is correct or not —in what it is incorrect, and in what it is not. Dr. Kilgour stated in the report before them that in several instances the report of the Committee was incorrect, and there were five gentlemen to say that it was correct. There, is one more" thing I wish to remark —I had no idea that Mr. Berry's notes were to be taken as the minutes. I understood that they were taken officially. (He then read an extract from the minute book : " that the Secretary at such meetings should take down the evidence in writing.") I understood that the Secretary would take down the evidence and that Mr. Berry's notes would be taken down more as a matter of reference, and, if required, for information hereafter. Therefore, the evidence of Dr. Kilgour without the evidence of the Sub-Committee would do the Sub-Committee a great iujustice indeed. Mr. Sims said the General Committee appeared to be taking the same course as the Sub-Committee. Each one took evidence, and drew conclusions from what they took. Mr. Mcllhone said they did not draw conclusions.

Mr Sims considered Mr Berry was quite right in the manner he had prepared the report. The Chairman said the report of Mr. Berry did not give a true report. Tho comparison of tho notes had been a part of the proceedings ; the comparisons did not appear in the report, aud so far the? minutes were incorrect. In order to have arrived at a proper conclusion they ought to have had them.

Mr. Berry : It" the Committee will allow me to explain —• Mr. Sims : After giving their evidence it was taken down ; we have it before us, and I maintain that the course adopted by Mr. Berry was perfectly correct. Mr. Berry: It is Dr. Kilgour's evidence; not that of She Sub Committee.

Mr. Hill: Then it is not; correct: all the questions asked sre not there. For one, the question about the superintending of dressing the wound. The point was of importance, as to whether he did give us the statement as regarded the wound. I have since found another member of the Sub-Committoe—Capfc. Souter —who has got tho word woundwritten ; thus there are three notes in which tl'ie word wound appears, Mr. Berry : I was placed in this position. Dr. Kilgour. was examined on the printed report, and I could ; not have e;rbodicd the comparisons in the time. I found it was quite impossible to do it. I thought you could compare the report with the evidence of the Sub-Committee subsequently. Besides it would have brought me into expressions of opinion, which I •praij anxious* to avoid, and I could not do it m the time.

Mr. Mcllhone : Then I.would give it up if I were in your position. . Mr. Hill: It would have been very easy, Mb. Chairman, for Mr. Berry fo have put down that threo. Q,f the Qommittee had the word ■•' wound" in evidence,

Mr. Berrys I have taken notes of the comparisons ; but concluded after much thought to keep them out. Mr. Mcllhone : You should not have done so—that was for the Committee to conclude.

$£r. Eovre : It mi^ht take an immense amount of time to tsfee a\\ wa^ &aid j but we were theratbjee hour?, arid spent only three quarters of an hour in the hearing of all the evidence, and lam quite

sure tho whole of it might hare been embodied in the space. And in order to understand the case we shbuld have all that was said, and the comparisons of notus especially. 1 '

Mr. Hill suggested that they should proceed .with Dr. Eilgour as at last night, ana compare notes as they went. Dr. Kilgour : I came here to sign the minutes of my pvidencc ; lam not going to put my name to what the- Sub-Com-mittee's notes said, by which I should not be putting my name to my evidence but to the proceedings of the meeting. Mr. Hill said Dr. Kilgour could not object to put his name to what he had said in reply to questions put; and as regarded the dressing of the wound four of them had said he did make the statement set down.

The Chairman said they should not obtain Dr. Eilgour's signature until the report was correct. Mr. Berry : It is not the way I thiuk it .should bo brought about. Mr.Mcllhone : That is a matter for us

Mr. Kenshaw said they seemed to be diverging from the course again; what they wanted to get was the treatment of Maurice Power, and whether that treatment resulted in the disastrous termination which had been brought about. They had already had three meetings taken up, with things outside the matter : one was occupied by the charge of tampering against Mr. Tyler; at another a large portion of the time had been taken up by discussing whether Mr. Mcllhone's conduct had been correct; and now it appeared they had met together to enquire whether the Sub-Commiltee's report was correct. (Several members: Most important.) They were not there to prove one man or another a liar, but what ought io have been done in the circumstances of Power.

Mr. Cox: We should take Dr. Kilgour's evidence; and not try to bully him into belying himself. Mr. Mcllhone : We do not wish to make the doctor belie himself. We are here in the first place to gee that the report is correct. Mr. Berry: lam quite sure it is not! Mr. Eowe: It was not right for Mr. Berry to make that remark. We are at present considering the minutes of the last meeting, and I will not put my name to part only. Is that report a complete record of the proceedings that took place last meeting. I say emphatically, " No.' 1 Mr. Lush suggested that xhey should adjourn the meeting for half an hour and let the Secretary get up the minutes. Mr. Sims : I think there is a minute on the books aopointing Mr. Berry.

Mr. Berry: I think you will find I have done as requested : I had f'O idea I was pairing minutes —I took Dr. Kilgour'a

evidence

Mr. Mclliionc : You have not. Mr. Berry : I did not take the comparisons, certainly. Mr. Mcllhone : I daresay, Mr. Bony, you hare taken the report to suit your own purpose. Mr. Berry : I have no purpose. Mr. Mcllhone: Don't be uuder a wrong impression—l did not wish to imply you had ; but we want the report of the proceedings in full, and must have them.

It was suggested to adjourn. Mr. Hill: it think it would be a pity to adjourn. If Mr. Berry a?id Mr. Honiss wore to meet to-night, I hare no doiibt they will bring up what took place. Mr. Mcllhone: Supposing it is then found that the minutes do not represent what had occurred ?

Mr. Hill: Then we can discuss the question. Mr. Sims did not see the necessity for the Secrefaiy taking down all that was snii! - it was not customary. Mr. iiill said surely Mr. Sims would see the difference between this and an ordinary cusc ; here they were charged with compiling a garbled report; with distorting, twistingand withholding evidence; and it was most important that when the Committee's report was shown to be correct it should be on the minutes.

Secretary . I defy any man to take down all that was said in the time—l should have to bo a shorthand writer to do it.

Chairman: I will venture to affirm that in the cisc of'tho Tichborne Trial, shorthand reporters were not employed to tnke the evidence. (A voice : Perhaps that's what made it so long!) Mr. Macnab suggested that it would be useless to proceed with the evidence then, as they had only three quarters of an hour before six o'clock. Mr. Berry said he could not attend tomorrow night (this afternoon); the work was accumulative, and he had all Dr. Lethbridge's evidence to, write out,

Mr. Hill said Mr. Berry was quite capable of judging of >vbat was necessary to be in the report. t Mr. Eenshaw : Then you will find fsi'ult with him for excercising his own discretion.

Mr. Hill: But surely Mr. Berry will not take down all Dr. Lethbridge said— that about' miasma, for instance.

Mr. Keushaw: I don't think every< thing shpuld be pu,t down. Chairman : I think that everything should be recorded iv the minutes ; I must have it before I sign them; otherwise wo should not he doing justice to call-selves, the Sub-Co,mmitteo, oi the publio. . '■ ,

Ky. Berry suggested that the evidence of each person should be taken down in regular order, each person to question the witness separately. At last meeting several members had read their notes and put questions at once; Mr. Eowe was sure tha' mistakes sucl» as those in co^nec^ion y/itl* ia>fc meeting would not occur./' ,' ' Some further discussion ensued.

Mr. Macnab: Any word left out in the unhides ! would be incorrcct-^they

wished to be able to refer to them at any time, twelve months hence, perhaps. I move that Mr. Honiss take down everything word after word, and that each witness sign his depositions before he leaves the room. We shall never get on at this rate.

Mr. Penshaw said if that mode of procedure were to be introduced the Secretaries would have to be more clever men, and better paid too. Mr. Berry stated he had notes of what had been said.

Mr. Hill: As Mr. Berry says he has notes, he will no doubt be able to give all that was said, and the present diiliculty will not occur again. It is very likely that the Secretary cannot do it; but if Mr. Berry were to take down all, the Secretary could take notes.

Father Lonn organ proposed that the meeting adjourn, and that Mr. Berry be asked to take down all that was said during the investigation ; to be truthful and keep nothing back. Dr. Kilgour said he was ready to sign his evidence as reported by Mr. Berry-. Some discussion occurred. Mr. Berry said ho was anxious to forward the enquiry. He had done what he thought best, and it was not fair to turn round on him.

Mr. Eowe said he was making no reflections. He did not say Mr. Berry was in fault, but the report was incorrect, and that would not do. '

A question then arose as to how thr. minutes should be amended. Mr. JBerry said if the Committee would give him' their notes, he would incorporate the portions necessary. Mr. Frater said he would not give his notes to any man.

Arrangements were ultimately come to that Mr. Berry should receive from tho members of the Sub-Com-mittee the questions put, and bring up the report amended. It was also agreed that the back evidence of Dr. Lethbridge should date on the minutes from to-day, in order to give time.

The meeting then adjourned.