THE ELECTIONS.

Temuka Leader, Issue 1628, 1 September 1887, Page 2

THE ELECTIONS.

MR TWOMEY AT WAITOHI.

Mr J. M. Twomey addressed the largest meeting yet held in the district in the Waitohi Schoolroom last Tuesday evening. Mr John Fraser, Chairman of the School Committee, occupied the chair. Mr Twomey spoke for about an hour and three quarters. With regard to

CHEAP MONBT,

A certain person in a letter to the Ohristchurcb Press tried to show that he (Mr Twomey) was "daft" because he suggested to make it illegal to charge more than 5 per cent, interest. He w»b sura many farmers who felt the weight of heavy interest would forgive him if in his zeal for cheap money he said anything which savoured of " daftness." The fact was he only threw it out as an alternative scheme to the National Bank proposal in a paper which dealt with the question cf industrial dcvelopement. He believed in the National Bank only as a means of cheapening money, but he was not making a point of either scheme in his speeches. He was going on the broad policy of the Government and making very little of his own schem°s. He was not going, however, to retract anything he had paid. The Christchurch Press had made a great deal of his proposal to reduco the rate of interest, and said that the promulgation of such ideas would frighten capital away, and make money dearer. It was very unfortunate for the sake of the arguments of the Press and its correspondent that since the idea war published the banks had reduced the rate of interest. It was very cruel of the banks to give the lie direct to th 6 arguments of the money-lenders in this way, but so it was. (L»ughler.) Sir Julius Vogel in his Ashburton speech gavo some hope that something would b.i done to reduce the rate of interest, [Mr Tvromey then read an extract from Sir Julius Vogel's Ashburton speech to the effect that the Government intended to bring forward a cheap money scheme next session.] This was sufficient to make those who believed in cheap money hope that something would be done, and he wonld promise, if elected, to assist in carrying it. (Applause.)

CHEAP BAIiWAYS. He (Mr Tworaey) bad also put a Cheap Railway Scheme before the public three years ago, and in his speech at Adhbarton it was endorsed by Sir Julias Vogel. [Quotation from speech rend.J Much as people tried to riiicula and make little of the schemes he had put forward, great men were generally ready to take them dp. The speaker was listened to with the greatest attention throughout and sat down amidst great applause. | Mr Talbot Buid that with regard to the distinction which Mr Twomey made between the Government Loanß to Local Bodies and the Roads and Bridges Construction Acts, the difference between them was this: The Government lent the money under the Roads and Bridges Construction Act for 15 years at 9 per cent, and under the Government Loans to Local Bodies for 25 years, at 5 per cent. It was found on calculation they came to the same thing. He also referred to the proposed change in the Land Transfer Act and said it was to remedy a mistake which had been made. He had a number of questions to ask the candidate and handed them in to the Chairman who read the following eight questions : 1. Mr Twomey advocates the State lending motiey to farmers (up to two* thirds of the Property Tax Assessment) on their freeholds. Mr Twomey will probably admit, however, that peopla in this position do not need State assistance, but thn farmers who do need it are thosa who h*ve their properties mortgaged to full value, and at the same lime hive their working plant and stock mortgaged also. Does Mr Twomey proposo any State relief to those t

Mr Twomey : Does Mr Talbot mean that farmers who are mortgaged to only two-thirds of the property tax valuation require no assistance ? Mr T»tlbot: No, but they are well enough off. Mr Twomey: But I desire to make them bstter off. (Lmghter and applause.) They ara paying from 7 to 10 per cent, now, and if they could get th« money at 6 cent, they wold be better off. (Applause.) They would have more money to spend on employing labor, and they could cultivate mors land and increase tho wealth of the colony, and also the exports. With regard to those who were mortgaged beyond the value of their land he did Bot think it possible to assist them. ]

rbe only thing that could be done for them was for the Government to buy out their lands and let them become Government tenants. Either that, or they could throw up their lands to the mortgagee nnd take up a faim under the Land Acquisition Bill. 2. Farmers who are in the position that Mr Twomey's lending scheme would benefit at present obtain what money they require at 7 per cent. Admitting for the purpose of the argument that the credit of the State would not be impaired by borrowing in London for this purpose, and that it could obtain the money at 4 per cent., what rate could it be lent to farmers at to pay Government for the official work the scheme would involve.-' Mr Twomey bad estimated it could be lent at 5 per cent, because paper money would enable a great maiy of the transactions to be oarried. Mr Talbot need not laugh at paper money. It was wall known he only advocated to put in circulation the note issue of the colony, and under the system he proposed these notes would be secured by the taxeft. The Bank of New Eaaland, the Bank of New South Wales, and every bank in the colony, as well as Mr Talbot himself would have to become security for the National Bank notes. Besides, they were based on gold and could be I paid in gold any moment. Who ever heard of a country becoming bankrupt t Who has not hearl of banks becoming bankrupt very frequently t The note issue in the bands of the' Government would be safe at present it wis net safe, for a 24-houra' rush on the banks would bankrupt the whole lot of then. The Government sold to the banks the right to issue paper money for 2 per cent, and the banks charged 9 per cent, for money. They thus made 7 per cent, profit. 3. Is Mr Twomey's generosity on account of bis money-lending scheme'reserved exolusively for the benefit of farmers, and if so, why f Mr Twomey said this question had been put in a sneering manner, but he would take no notice of the sneerer. Certainly he would not lend others than landowners money, because landowners always offered a substantial security. A. man could not clear out and take his land on

his back with him ; bat if the price of money was brought down at all it would come down all round, and others would then get cheap money. (Applause.) . 4. Mr Tworaey proyes to his satiafaction that we are not paying our way by pro* during is much ai will purchase the articles we require other than our production*. Can Mr Tnomey show us how we are. to get along when he has made those said articles dearer thin they are at present by. 15 percent, or more, while he must admit there is not Lite slightest probability of the present generation seeing a population large enough in New Zealand to consume our own staple productions—wheat and wool t t Mr Twomoy said this question was put in such a sneering manner as to show the hostility of the questioner. Mr Talbot said he had no intention of sneering. He drew the questions up hastily perhaps. He would withdraw them if Mr Twomey did not like to answer them.

Mr Twomoy said he did like to answer them. The more questions he was asked the better he liked it, as they, gave him the opportunity of showing, the people +hat he understood what he was talking about, but it was unnecessary ask to them in snesring language, and in such a lengthy form as to render it difficult to understand what the questioner wished to know. He would make the point so, simple that no one would fail to sea it. (Great laughter.) Mr Rolleaton said the amount they had to pay in interest was 4£ millions a year; Mr Bryca said it was' th millions, and Sir John Hall said it was 3| millions. He (Mr Twe>mey) made it out to be 4 million. This was interest on our public debt, interest on the debts of local bodies, and interest on the debts of private individual*. Supposing, then, Mr [Talbot's share of the public debt was 10s, he would have to pay that 10s to the Government, and the Government j would have to pay it in London ; and ' supposing his share of the interest on the debt of the Timaru Harbor Board was lOd, he would have to pay it to the Harbor Board in the same way ; and supposing he was in the position of those who had borrowed in England, and that the interest on the foreign capital came to £lO, he would have to send' that Home also. Thus Mr Talbot would havo to send to England every year £lO 10s 10d, and this he would have to make oat of his farm. The remedy was in importing less and exporting more. Mr Twomey dwelt on these points at considerable length.. . 5. Does Mr Twomey agree with Mr Ley that the working man pays more for his spiritual comforts (whiskey) in proportion to his wsalth than tiva rich nnn does through the Customs; and, if so, does Mr Twomey propose to remedy the matter, and in what way t and further, if the Customs duties fall unlairly on the poor, nun in the matter of the spirits it is evidrnt tbat the rule holds goods in the case of nearly all dutiable articles. If Mr Twomoy does with Mr Ley. how can ho conscientiously desire to still further increase the Customs dut'di?

Mr Tworhcy said this waa woraeitban the ca f echisra of the Political Reformer*. Thflro.was too much philosophy,, and too litt'e pr'c*ioalF'ena9 in the questions." He Agreed fully with Mr Ley, but thought it impossible to remedy it. Mr Ley did not suggest a remedy ; Le only 'ti»ed it as an"argument to prove 'that the Cuntoras duties fell with a graduated affect on the poor. Be (Mr Twomey) did not propose , to increase • the Customs duties at all.. There we-e alteraa'ive proposals.: One to increase the tax an taa, sugar, spirits, tobacco, an<l ■alt; the other to increase the t«x on articles which could he produced in the colony. He favored taxing the imported goods which we c <uld produce in the colony, and if it were possible to take tho Ux off lha imported articles which we could not produoe in the colony. To put on the tax in a direction that would prorno'e industry wou'd givs work to the working man, and that would pnfc anytbiog ho paid through tho Customs back in his pocket tenfold. (Applause). 6. If cheap money and local industrial is the cure for all our State complaints, is it not then Mr Twomey's opinion that we ought to liar* remained in Qreat Britain, and thus have secure our welfare and happiness! , Mr Twomey said be believed Mr T.albofc was much better off now .than when he

was io Great Britain. (Greut laughter and ringing applause, which lasted for several minutes). He also believed it would ba bard to persuade him to go back. (Great applause). The question was absurd. England was over-populated, and the work which Englishmen ought to be doing was done in America and on the Continent. It would take Mr Talbot all bis time to persuade the people that cheap money and local industries would tend to impoverish the country, 7. Is it not the almost certain effect of all industries carried on as they now are under the factory system to sooner or later bring labor and capital into conflict, with the general result that the operatives come in for all the hardship and suffering such conflicts involve!-they beiug entirely unfitted for other occupations must generall* give in n starve. Mr Twomey slid there was always a conflict between capital and labor, and there would always be a conflict between them. Local industries would lessen instead of increase the conflicty because it would extend the field of labor. There would be more employment for working man, and consequently the conflict between themselves and their employers would be lessened. Mr Talbot said ho was induced to ask this question through having seen in the paper—the Timaru Herald—that there were 14 strikes in Now York alone in one

year. Mr Twomey said that wis one of the most absurd arguments he had ever heard in his life against local industries—That the. Timaru Herald said there were 14 strikes in New ToTk in one year. (Great laughter). What did it. show I That the working men of New York were not down-trodden slaves, and that they were in a position to stind up for their rights. (Great applause). Mr Twomey theo spoke,' at some length on the effects of cheap labpr, holding that cheap labor must necessarily mean that the products of the soil must be cheep a'so. 8. Mr Twomey would raise the school age to seven years, instead of five as at present. Would not this change unduly fav.or the well*to-do class, in that they would reap the greatest benefit from the cheapening of tho system, while the disadvantage of shortening the school period would fall with the greatekt severity on the children of poorer people, who in many cases cannot be left at school when strong enough to assist io home work or earn something away from home. Mr Twomey . Who said I would raise the school age f The Rev. Mr White, at Pleasant Point, asked me the question in this way. Ha said "It i« proposed to take £IOO,OOO off the Education vote. Wcu ! d you take it off the secondary or primary education, or how would you take it oft ?" I said "It could not all be taken off the secondary educatipn, for thefe is not so much money as ; that spent on it. The only way it could be taken off the primary education .is by raising the school age to seven, but that would shut up most of the country schools, and under no circum--stances would I be in favor of that."

Mr Talbot: If Mr Twomoy denies it that is enough. Mr Tworney : It is not enough. 1 want to explain tho matter fully. I further said the line could bo drawn at town ichools, whore trie population was large. Mr Talbot; Then my question stands good-* Mr Twomey said it did not. He was not adtooatuig this. He was asked how it could be done, and he was explaining how according to his ideas it could be done, but not advocating it. If they doubted what he said they could ask the Key. Mr White, of Pkfasant Point. And yet there was another rev. gentleman who had gone round the district since saying that he (Mr Twomey) advocated raising the school age and shutting up country schools altogether. That was neither honest nor honorable. (Applause, and cries of" It was not "). But it was not the only lie that was floating about, nnd doubtless tbey would hear a great many more lies about him (Mr Twomey) during the next few necks. (Applause). Mr fl. Nicholson : Could Mr Twomey state what the Geraldine County Council costs!

Mr Twomey; Mr Talbot would be bettor able to stale, fiat than 1 could. (Laughter). Mr Nicholson : Would Mr Twomey be in favor of abolishing the County Councils? Mr Twomey said this stood on the same footing as eduction. They were altogether oyergovemed. There were Education Boards all over the country, with School Committees under them to manage the schools. His idea was that one Central Board for each Island, or one for both, would do if extended powers were given to the School Committees. Something like £IO,GOO a year might be saved in that way. It was *s same way with the County Councils aoci Road Boards. It was absurd to have both bodies looking after the kaepiog of roada in repair. An elector: Could not the Road Boards do it ? Mr Twomey: Yes, the Road Boards could do it, with the exception of the counecting links between them. For instance, in the case of bridg6s across rivers between two road districts there would be disputes as to which Board ■hould keep them iu repair. They would 'be trying to best each other. His idea wan that one County Council fpr the whole of South Canterbury would work beß«-. s and les» expensively. He was not preparedtosay which of the two should be abolißbfld, but he did not think that feofh Road Boards and County C .uncils were needed. He did not think that the people *ould give up the Bonrds, whatever they nv.ght do wnh 'County Councils. ■ •

In reply to a question, Mr Twontey ■•id he woold not be in favor of re<luciug the bonorarinm. He » ould not be in favor of Bending their honorariums to the home's'-of Letjisiltttivo - Councillors, but worald do away with them altogether. Mr Trbot moved a vote of thanks to Mr Twotney for his address. He agreed with Mr Twoiney on many point". *He agreed that the honorarium should not be nduoed, and alao that agricultural improvements should be exempt from taxation, but he disagreed with theCueup Money Sciieme find Protection. Ht» had no intention to sneer ut Mr Tvromey, auri he did not move the vote of thanks bo as to prevent a vote f>f confidence beirg curried. He thought vote-of thai k- ware absurd and tiselfs*. Confidence should be given in the ballut-bi>x. Mr Brnd"ick moved as an amendment a vote of iliuiks aud confident e, and thought Mr Twomey riobly deserved it.

Mr Coll seconded it. The Chairman pointed out that Mr Talbot's motion was not seconded, Mr Scow seconded it, Mr Br.iddick's amendment, on being put, was carried by an immense majority, only a few hands being held up against it. Mr Twomey then moved a vote of thinks to tho Chairman, and the meeting terminated. Sir Julius Vogel addressed a large meeting at Woolston on Tuesday night, his main topic being the encouragement of manufactures. He was enthusiastically received, and at the close a voto of thanks to Sir Julius, and confidence in the StoutI Vogol Government, was passed with three casern. Sir Geo. Grey addressed a public meeting at Invercargill on Tuesday evening, and was accorded a vote of ttiaDks. Mr R. Turnbull, the late member for Timaru, and a candidate for re-election, addressed a very large public meeting in the Theatre Royal, Timaru, on Tuesday even ; ng, and was accorded a vote of thanks and conn" lence. He dealt very ably with the falling revenue, and expenditure, retrenchment, the progressive proporty tax, the eight hours' bill, etc., and the bursts of applause ware frcqmnt and prolonged. Mr Turnbull is a supporter of the present Government.