THE ELECTIONS.

Temuka Leader, Issue 1611, 23 July 1887, Page 2

THE ELECTIONS.

MR W. ROLLE&TON AT GERALDINi

The Hon. W. Rolleston addressed public meeting of the electors of Bang! tata at the Oddfellows’ Hall, Geraldine on Wednesday evening last. There wa a very large attendance, the hall beinf crowded in every part. MrR. H. Fearpoint, Chairman of the Town Board, occupied the chair, and briefly introduced the speaker, for whom he bespoke a fair hearing. Mr Rolleston, who, on coming forward, was greeted with cheers and groans, said he would not occupy their time with any preliminary observations. They all knew why be, was there, and he would go straight to the important questions with which they had to deal. He would tell them first of what they as electors of the colony had to do that night. They had met under somewhat extraordinary circumstances. Parliament had been socking to increase taxation to the extent of £200,000 or £300,000 a year, and ho and his party had said that they should not eifect any further taxation until the Government showed them what retrenchment could.be made. He was there that evening as their representative to ask them If he had done right or wrong in not voting for taxation until there had been retrench- | ment. (Cheers.) Before going into the, financial question there was one question that ho would like to draw their attention to for a few moments, and that was to the present position of the representation;of the colony. When he spoke in that \ hall some months ago he told them what was hia opinion of the Representation Act that had been proposed in the provious session. Ho told them ho considered a great wrong had been done to the colony in not taking the Representation Bill through in the previous session. It had farjod because of the differences of opint l0 ® among the members of the Governmt|°t themselves. If the Bill had been then they would have now been in Paf*' liament discussing the question as whether they were to have retrenchment" or more taxation, There were of course a good number of members in the HousS 1 who wanted to save their seats, and dit£ not want the Representation Bill to bat passed upon the basis of population. he held that the population w.-s the best' basis upon which the Representation Bill I should be passed, and he voted for its being based upon that or similar basis during the session that had just passed. When they met in Parliament this Bill was one of those before them that had to be carried at once. One of the causes upon which a division rook place was as to the number of members there shou'd be for the colony. He had told them that he thought it would be impossible to carry a Representation B : Il in the House for a large reduction of members. That was his belief, and events had proved he was correct. As time went on it appeared that a number of members who voted for 71 members did so because that number would make th# Bill impossible, and they did not want it. They nearly came to a deadlock. If any Bill passed ac all they would have been back to the number 91 under any circumstances. The question in tlie House then was whether they were prepared to go without any Bill at all till December, wrhen j;hpy wo||ld have to go to the country, or reverf: to the oleji rjuin; ber. There was another point, and

was, whether the country districts should have an advantage above the town* with regard to numbers. He had Ai thought it advisable that this should be the case. They would bear In mind that the number would have remained at 91 if the deadlock h»d continued, and when the question of whether the Bill should pass or not came op he compromised and voted for the 91. The case would have been this : If they bad gone to the the old rolls as soon as the M new House met it would have had to pasi - anothc.£Jill, and then, .constitutionally, there <«nld have had to have been anodtiXplectloD and another session. Underlie circumstances the number 91 was the fjjp thing possible on this oovoted for it. He did this becaußHplthe was doing his duty, and if the ■Ron for voting for 71 occurred again Tfv should do so because be belioved interests of the country required it. (Applause). He would not take them far back in the history of the colony, but he thought upon occasions like that they should look at the end of c>e Parliament and thecemmenceffitfjytf another. He would just slightly what had taken place since last He was glad to be one of goring the whole of his public ctjHßriiad advocated economy. He was put to be one of those who had bad attached to him opprobrium, which ho rather [gloried in—(interruption)— because be had consistently walked in the path of prudence and caution. He thought occasion was one upon which they 1 would not be avero to hear what he had to say upon the condition of the colony. He thought that the people first time beginning to and to listen and caution, and to in for extravagance as theypast. (Hear, bear.) They upon it h v ,at the tone of the be very little above the members they sent up there. op men imbued with the was to continue it and he ventured to say not altogether blame their condition of the colony - now. hear.) He met it oonthe country—the question Wbat ilßTyou got for us t That was, How deep cojrd a public man put his hand into 1 the pullic purse and get something for i them ? lie could not blame himself much Id that way. He had done what be could ' (or hie constituents, but he bad never lent 1 himself/as a colonial representative to the cry for scattering the cash and cash at any '

price as had been the cry of 1870. That 1 was the feeling that had been animating ' (4 the country and some of the representa- 1 • tires from 1870 down to the present time, 1 but he ventured to say this state of things * had now begun to be viewed with some ! degree of alarm. In 1884, when the late Government went out of office and Sir Julius Togel came in, there was no doubt the contraction was setting in very ■ seriously. When the present Government came in the people were told it was to be I a year of equilibrium. How was it ' brought about? It was brought about ! by taking a quarter of a million out 1 of the loan to pay (hat which should 1 be paid ont of the revenue. Then they ' were to borrow seven and a-h«lf millions more. In snob a state of things ' little be effected through the Ous« J toms, for was idle to talk of Increasing i the Custotns revenue when it was aln ady ' said to be |too high. That was the first I year. Ini 1885 they were astonished by 1 being tolp the Customs must be raised. I There wart a reversal of the policy of the 1 previous year, That yaar was signalised J by the moat extravagant proposal—the ’ Meega proposal—with regard to the Mid- 1 land railway that was ever before the 1 colony. (That year was signalised by a proposal that would if carried have landed 1 the country more hopelessly in debt than 1 - ever. 'That was t&o proposal to give £300,OOt) a ypar to local bodies, and to allow thjem to borrow on it. He asked them wjjat did they do upon the other side of the House then. He thought he could ohira credit for himself and the others y ho worked with him for having lajjged hi 3 voice against such proposals. TbS'nex: proposal was kept out of sight; it was too monstrous to talk about, and like the proposal for loans to local bodies was thrown up. When the asasion was over tho. Government went through the countryi holding up the Opposition to opprobrium for having curtailed the expenditure, hut he asked them to judge as fair, minded |men if they were not entitled to credit for having stopped these two proposals End carrying a resolution that in 1884 curtailed the expenditure throughout the country ? Now let them come to a year further, to 1886-7. He thought these years must be called the years of “ tapering ” and “vapouring.** Sirßobt. Stout preached that they were to have tapering off, and he (Mr RoUeaton) thought they had had in regard to the other questions mere vapouring. With regard to the position tho country was in. If they looked at the schedule of loans, the Schedule of that year contained more useless railways than any other schedule. ►- Take the Tophouse railway, the Inangahua line, which was along a navigable river. Take the Helensville ral’wny, which had deep water and inlets capable of carrying crafts all the way along it. What did they think of tapering off when they sere ftold they were to have half a million of debt put upon the taxpayers with regard to the District Railways ? What did they think of tapering oft when they were told they were to have '£2,000,000 borrowed to bs expended upon two railways at the extreme north and south of the colony ? No more flagrant bid for popularity could be conoeived of. (Applause), They would perhaps ask what he meant by “ vapouring,” He meant that such things as Women’s .Suffrage and proposals for the reform of the Supreme Court were vapouring. “ Fiddling while Rome was burning,” and .tasking an appeal for popularity. Vapouring he called this rtry about Protection. It-was merely an appeal for further taxation. Merely an appeal to tho industrious classes to get them to sanction further taxation in order that the Government might go in for further borrowing. They Aad nad everything bnt retrenchment, indeed. Think of such things as the Colonial Exhibition vote of V" £10,000; of tho expenditure upon the Government Insurance ; of the exoend?ture of £3OOO which was paid to a gentleman (n the Government employ, who was canvaefing against one of the members of the North pdand, Think of the fsos) paid to the wife of a member of parliament for dealings 1 ip Native lands, because it

could not b) paid to him under the Disqualification Act. (Applause). They heard a good deal about the question as to whether the expenses of the Government had been increased or not. They would find Government officers who wore accounted financiers giving very different accounts of this, Ha said there bad been no retrenchment and a vary great deal of extravagance. It tied not been progress that had bean going on by leaps and bounds, but debts, taxation, and expenditure. There had been a return placed upon the ti ble of Parliament last year, from which he would give them a few figures. In 1881 the Ministerial expenditure for the year, including everything, amounted to £10,516, in 1885-6 it was £14,711. Take the expenditure of the Legislative Council. They had voted rabre additions to that than had been done for many years past, and their expenditure had increased from £4900 to £6600 ia the same period of time. Take the defence expenditure. It had risen from 1881—a time when they had a good deal of trouble with the natives—from £141,000 to £IBI,OOO upon the consolidated revenue, in addition to £25,000 placed upon the loan. Take the Native expenditure, which his friend Mr Bryce reduced with a strong hand, as he did the Native difficulty. In the year when Sir Donald McLean first took the Native office the expenditure of this office was £II,OOO, besides the Civil list, which was £7OOO. When Mr Bryce took office he reduced this to within £2OOO of the Civil list—that was altogether about £9OOO. If he had remained in office be (Mrßolleston) believed the Civil list would have covered the , whole of the expenditure. Now it had , mounted up to between £3OOO and £4OOO above the Civil list. Mr Richardson, in , speaking at Kaiapoi, said the Government | had been making great savings in the i Survey Department. He (Mr Rollesfon) ■ said if they were putting people on the land , to the extent they were it was no saving j

shortly. The proposal with regard to the property tax was that property up to £2500 was to enjoy the full exemption and pay J 3-16ths of a penny in the £ as now. All properties above £2500 were to have no exemption and were to pay Id in the £. Then school buildings and lands were to be put upon short-dated debentures, To his mind this was a most improvident form of borrowing, and likely to land the Colony in a very large amount of debt. The Opposition said they would have no more taxation until they had had retrenchment, and he was there that night to ask them whether or not he did right. (Applause.) The Premier had said he and his colleagues had been In Cabinet a week, and had now decided that another hundred thousand could bo taken off the expenditure Could there be a more trenchant proof that it was wrong lo ask them to submit to what they cartajnly knew was wrong. He (Mr Rolleaton) could tell them £IOO,OOO would not do it. It would take nearly £200,000 to estab-

lish their c edit again, and as honest men -(A voice ; “Oh ! honest men I”)—Yes, honest men —there was only one thing worse than debt, and they must meet it fearlessly. (Interruption and cheers. A voice i “ Who raised the railway tariff?”) We will come to that presently. There was nothing worse than debt except dishonor. (Applause). He had told them that the expenditure woqtd havit to bq out down to the extent of £200,000. No one could be fairly supposed to lay down the number of'Ueme

• in which that retrenchment could bo f managed. A man must have a depart- ) ment at his back and knew all the figures t and circumstances before he could be called I upon to deal fairly with a subject ot that > kind. One of the items upon which he 1 would retrench was defence. Defence i was a kind of insurance, and when the : people were so heavily taxed, and could i not see their way clear, bo thought this was one of those things that should remain in abeyance. Then the expenditure must be retrenched from the highest to the lowest. (Cheers.) They must begin at the Governor, (Cheers, and a voice : “ That’s more like it.”) That retrenchment could not apply to the present Governor, but there was no doubt his term of office was drawing to a close and with the new Governor they could make a commencement. (Applause.) Then the whole Ministerial expenditure was altogether put of proportion to the circumstances of the colony. That was more than in respect to travelling allowances and Ministerial expenses, and be thought the salaries were higher than ought to be given. No Ministry could go in for retrenchment unless they set the example themselves by cutting down their own expenses. fCheers.) £7OOO or £BOOO a year, he thought, could bo saved there. With regard to the legislature, if they were going in for cutting down salaries they must set the example in respect to their own honorariums. He had always thought it was larger than it should be. He thought it should be cut down to £l5O in the Lower House and £IOO in the Upper House. (Cheers.) All kinds of perquisites should be cut off. They placed members in a very invidious light before their constituents, and he thought they should be out away. He alluded to free passes to members. He wished such a thing were done away with, and he should vote for its being done away with as soon as soon as possible. (Loud cheers.) Then there was the Forest Department, coupled

with the Agricultural Department, that was coating the country some £IO,OOO a year. That might be postponed for a time. They were obtaining very good results from the various Plantation Boards, and he thought it was quite premature to start a new school of forestry at a considerable cost when the present school at Lincoln was not made as available as it should be to the farming interest. His opinion was that by means of scholarships they ought to give the children attending rhe public schools an opportunity to learn the scientific parts of ngriculture at Lincoln. Hd feared at present it was open to the reproach of being for the sons of those who could nffurd to pay for it and not for the sons of those who could not. (Hear, hear.) Let them examine the position of the colony Just now as affected by the Government proposals. They had a public debt amounting to £37,000,000, and -a private debt amounting to £52,000,000, leaving ont the smaller figures, making a total of £90,000,000. In round numbers they had four and oue-third millions to pay annually on the public and private indobtedness. In respect to the public debt they to send Home a sum which took the whole of the Customs Revenue, the whole of the Property Tax, and three or four other sources of revenue to pay what they owed yearly in interest to the Bri'lsh money-lender. This was something ho hoped they would think about, and weigh well over in their minds, as the pr»fl"nt position of the colony was a most serious one. Their total income was something over £6,000.000* The taxation amounted t® £3 7s 8i per head, and their total Indebtedness was £6214a 6d per head. (A voice; We are all in debt then. Laughter.) Yea, they were all in debt. What would a private individual do if he found he had to spend 2-sths of his income in interest. Iq J|f e “ ra * P 1 ® 06 be would refuse to increase his liabilities and stop borrowing, next be would curtail every sixpence of his expenditure, and thirdly he would-(A voice : File his shovel. Laughter.) Me believed he would, (Loud laughter.) He would if be could, anyway. The third thing he would set himself to do would be to increase his production. Now, with regard to his refusing to increase his liabilities, Does the Government propose to stop borrowing! No! They were told they must go in for another £2,000,000. He thought there was no disposition on the part of Government to stop borrowing. Now they were called upon by the Premier to give the colony one more chance, to go in for another “ burst, and he (Mr Holleston) hoped the public would not bn “gulled ’ into this. (Applause.) Did the Government propose to curtail the expenditure 1 No. But there has been a death-bed repentance of the Premier and he he has fon'nd he can curtail the expenditure by £IOO,OOC. Mr Rolleston did not believe in death-becl repentances. He had just read the Treasurer’s speech, and he found that he still stuck manfully to his proposal for increased burdens upon the people. The people were depressed. What was the remedy proposed by the Government! Taxation. He hoped they would make any member they might return pledge himself not to support this. * . ° m , il • AIOA AAA

{uneera;. wdo was 10 pay tms £186,000 extra 1 It was to come from the breadwinners of the colony. It would press upon every breadwinner in the colony, npon every family and housewife, and the proposition that is made to gild this appeal over is that you shall have Protection. There was no room for further Protection. The people wem paying upon everything that they came into contact with more now than they ought to pay. ( \pplause). The subject of Protection was too long for him to go into that evening. He was a Freetrader, and he believed that all taxation was an evil and should only be used for paying their way. When a Government once began to interfere with trade by taxation there was no stopping it, and it was safe to lead the people info very considerable trouble. They could not trample upon great principles. The great principles ox Freetrade were—lst, That they could not increase wealth by taxation ; 2nd, They could not increase capital by forcing I®" 01, into unnatural channels; and 3rd, That they could not force the people to buy in the cheapest market and soil In the dearest. The wealth of the people consisted in commerce, industry, and the free exchange of commodities, and when a Government interfered with _ that free exchange it to that extent injure! the people. Sir dulius Togel told them that they must look for « market for their goods here, and that Would keep up their piices, but be (Mr Rolleston) would ask them if they expected to see their piices

regulated by anything but the Home market for a long time to come. It was said the colony wanted revenue. How would they get the revenue out of taxation ! If they stopped the articles coming in they would not get the revenue. Prohibitive duties and revenue were inconsistent with each other, Ha asked them what was going to be the effect of the aggregation of large populations in the towns. What was the result in America f Henry George said that in America it was working as great a misery as in the Old Country. In Philadelphia there were 50,000 unemployed people. That was a terrible thing. What had Protection done in America. It had destroyed the mercantile marine, and created a pauperism and c'ass feeling which he hoped would never be seen in this country. Some people said they must have fair trade and reciprocity, This was no remedy. This proposal was against the priociplos he had mentioned as the principles of Freetrade. They did wrong to interfere with taxation for any other purpose than for raising the revenue. He had pointed out, to them at a previous meeting that the trade between Hew South Wales and New Zealand had mounted up to £BOO,OOO a year, and in that district to £BO,OOO. The Government put a duty of 2s par ton on coal, and it immediately went up 2s 6d to the consumer, and he did not think it had been removed since. One of the great evils of Protection was _that the money raised out of the taxes imposed did not always go to the Government, There was a large proportion went into the pockets of the middle-men. . It was one of the evile that Protection carries with it, namely, that it imposed a greater tax upon the consumer than the Government got out of it. If that duty had been kept upon coal they would have to pay double freight to send their produce to Sydney, as the vessels would have no back loading, so that they were taxed by Protection to this extent. What need was there for Protection upon agricu'tural machinery,

barbed wire, etc. t The experience of himself and a great many others was that they could get far better implements out here than they coaid get at Horae for the same price. The here did not require Protection ; they did not want it. With regard to soft goods, calicoes, boots, cornflour and hardware, why they should be protected he could not see, nor that every householder should suffer privotion for the purpose of allowing further millions to be borrowed. They could depend upon this s that if the Colony had a clean sheet, and could do what was moat to its interest to do, it would remove every restriction it could upon trade through the Customs. Dr Foster and the Rev. Mr Barclay, who unfortunately were not present that evening, had said to him that the people with w,hom he was associated held protectionist views. He said they did not do so. Colonel Mr Bryce did not hold with Protection, as Mr' Postlethwaite, who was present, could testify. However, they had got Protec-

tion now, and he was sorry for it. He was sorry the necessities of the country had put the necessity upon them. They could not go back, but he urged upon i them by no means to go deeper into it, ( and an far as his influence in politics went , ho would endeavor to open this question in the interests of Freetrade. For his part he thought the question was brought forward as a blind. He did not consider • the question came in now as a practical question. The real question was: Can , you as a body reduce or retrench so as to , do away with the necessity for farther taxation t He believed they could very largely. Ha did not agree with the proposal as to a property over £2500 having to pay the penny in the £ and (hose below to pay IS-lflths and have the exemptions, i (Hear, hear.) He held it to be a fair principle that no one’s income should be reduced beyond what was required to furnish him with the requisites of life. (Hear, hear.) The State did not want to deprive people of the necessaries of life. Up to that point the State should not interfere. They should treat as taxab'e only that portion that was not required to provide the necessaries of life. He thought all property should be dealt with equally. Why should the people who step over the £2500 be the butt and aim of all those who are less fortunate than to that extant. If they stepped over that line 1 they had to pay, but if they did not they did not have to pay. The objection he had to a progressive property tax was that it was arbitary. If the rich were to pay twice as much as the poor why should it stop there—why should they not have to pay three or four times as much! He said it introduced an element of insecurity into the value of property that could not be but detrimental to the whole of the colony. Another thing was it taxed industry and economy, and made a penalty for saving and having more than your neighbor. There was, however, apart from this, what they might call the abstract view of the question, one that would perhaps be sufficient to some, namely, that it would not pay to do it. If they did not look at it from the point he had indicated, they had better look afrit from the expedient point of view, and he could tell them it would not pay. They could not afford to drive capital away from the colony, and those persons who raised class cries and tried to trade upon them were the worst of enemies to the working men and themselves. (Applause.) He had, he thought, been pretty plain with them upon the two questions of taxation and retrenchment. He now came to the two questions that were being very much canvassed. The present Government were taking to (hemselves great credit for being the champions of the people’s cause as regards settlement on the land and education. He held that these two questions were the great tests of what was real Liberalism in New Zealand. There were other people who were Just as earnest in the interests cf education as they were, and also with regard to the settlement o! the people upon the land. He had beard a very great deal about this question of education in the country lately. < There seemed to be a widespread opinion that they were paying too much for education. There was a widespread feeling with regard to the relationship of primary and secondary education. He was glad to see that no political association formed in New Zealand had ventured to suggest the destruction of the national system of education. He held th.it no greater evil

i together for one common cause, and to i retain the education system was a hopeful sign. He quite considered the system was capable of considerable improvement and economy. He said that every department of the Government would have to be economised. He said, however, do not let them band themselves together with the enemies of the education system. The - reform must be carried out with those who were friendly to the system. (Loud applause). Let him ask first of all those people who talked of knocking off education at the fouith standard what it meant. (A voice: Do you men High School education ?) No, he would come to that. He had lately had tho'pleasure of reading a valuable book, where the various standards of edncation in the colonies and in Europe were compared, and he there found that our sixth standard is no higher, if as high, as the standard of the Scotch primary schools. He would ask • Were they not to havotheir children brought up on an equality with the children of the Old Country! (Hear, hear) He understood by a National system ©f education it was a system in which the cost, like all departments, fell upon the consolidated revenue. That it was not to be made a matter of school or local taxation, but to be borne by the country at large. (Applause). He asked them whether at the present time they were prepared to abandon that system. He said No. The American opinion of higher education was that they fostered their industries and their trade production. When they went in for high farm mg and for superior cultivation. The Royal Commissioners appointed m England to euquire into the higher education found that the superiority .of the foreign mechanics over those in England consisfed in the superiority of the technical Vacation given to foreign mechamcs The competition of the world was now one of intellect, and were they going to sacrifice their people’s education on account of a depression. No, education was the last thing think of allowing to degenerate or bo neglected. (Hear, hear, and applause.) Sir Henry Roscoe said that the competition of England was not seriously feared on the Continent by the nations of Europe. What was feared was that England would awaken to the necessity of educating its workers to the extent to which they were> edtooated in France, in Germany, and other places England was falling behind becamib of the superior technical education of the people upon the Continent. (Mr Quin . In England the rich man paid for that education, in New Zealand the poor man.) He was coming to that. Sir, Lion Playfair said, in the colonies the raw material was looked npon as the ch.ef aou-ce of wealth, but when these colonies get older they will discover that it is not in this, but in the culture of science and intellect that their prosperity depends. He thought he had now given them a pretty fair idea of what his ideas were upon this subject of National Education. His idea of democracy was: where there was a f !' start from the highest to the lowest, where every one had a free and fair chance of advancement. He asked them not to think that he had proved that economy could not be practised. It could and would be practised. But ho urged ■ upon the people of New Zealand not (o give up this ono boon which was to place the people of New Zealand upon a oar with those of other countries. The wealth of New Zealand, like that of all countries, would consist in the Intelligence of its people. (Cheers.) With regard to secondary education, ho was aware it was not in a satisfactory condition. (Applause.) He thought there was a great deal of misapprehension as to how its evils touched the people. The secondary schools, out of a cost of £68,000 only received £3OOO a year out of the taxes of the country. The rest was made up from the lease and sale of those reserves which he and others had set aside for the purpose of establishing a general system of education open to nil classes. The remainder came out of school fees, and the fees paid were considerable. He urged them not to let the education system lapse. If they did the Government of the country would assuredly fall into the hands of those children whose parents could afford to pay for their education, which, for his part, he would be very sorry to see. Intellect was sure to rise, and he would like to see this country governed ‘’ by men who represented plasses of the community. (Hear, hear.) Let them net be behind the most progressive nations in the world in this matter. Let them see that tlieir children had more education than just sufficient to enable them to read trashy books and literature, fie hoped the people of New Zealand would not give up this their birthright. It was the hope of a democracy when the people insisted upon their children receiving the full advantage of free education. (Loud cheers.) He was afraid he had wearied them upon this subject, but his great burden was that they raustinsist upon economy, and insist upon reform in their higher education, because he felt it was the children of the poor it should reach. Do not let them, in a moment of depression, strike any blow that would deprive them of their national system of education. The present Government had also got a monopoly of the land laws. The present land law was held to be an extremely good one. Some credit was due to the late Government for the steps it took in bringing about that land Jaw. Mr Ballanco had put a grsat many people upon the land of late. He (Mr Rolieaton) had very grave doubts, however, as to the ultimate success of the special settlements. No one was more anxious than he was to see the people settled upon the jand, but when they came to make special settlements anywhere, irrespective of the quality or situation of the land, they were following a course of action that in all probability would make this portion of their land law a laughing stock. There coaid be no doubt whatever that when the House last year voted a sum of money to be spent in assisting the settlers to get their houses up, the experiment was tried in a small way for the purpose of helping them to get upon the land, but if, as suggested by Mr Ballance, they went further, and assisted them with the means of cultivating the soil, they would be entering upon a course that would cause a great deal of dissatisfaction. Although he (Mr Rolleston) would help in every possible way any scheme to enable the people to get upon the land ho would not forego his right of cri'icism whenever he thought such schemes would fail. He did not think Parliament would have blamed Mr Dallance much for taking the amount be did over that voted by Parliament for the

could happen to the country than that in a moment of depression the people should strike a blow at what be held to bo the

brightest gam fa the whole national life. The determination of the people to work

purpose of assisting settlement if he had come before them and said he found the thing was working well, and so he had taken upon himself the responsibility of doing as ha had. But when he came down and told the House that thej had thoroughly understood and made themselves party to it, it was not likely they would be told they had done a thing they had not. The money voted was simply a matter of teat, and the House would not be doing its duty if it allowed the spending of money without the appropriation of representatives. (Applause). It had been canvassed as to whether they should have a Non-political Board of Railway Management. When the Minister : for Public Works came into.office he thought he would establish such a board, but he found that a non-political board sitting in Wellington would not satisfy the. colony. The problem was a very difficult, one to deal with. The proper course would be to form a Standing Committee from the House, of gentlemen having special qualifications to deal with the sub* ject. This would induce good business men, say such men as Mr Stead, to seek, election to Parliament, if they felt, they would have a voice there in the management of the raiiwoys. : Mr Rolleston then went on to explain bis action with regard to the management of the railways, and at the conclusion of the speech expressed his willingness to answer any questions they might wish to pul.

Mr Postlethwaite said ha had prepared a few questions to ask, but Mr Rolleston’e speech bad practically done so. However, he would pub them, in order that the public might have an opportunity of hearing the answers given. He then asked : Ist. Would Mr Rolleston be in favor , of reducing, the Governor’s salary to £SOOO per annum ?—Mr Rolleston: Yes. (Hear, hear.) ' 2nd. Would he be in fayor of reducing the honorarium paid in the Upper House from 200 to 100 guineas P —Mr Rolleston : Yes. (Hear, hear.) 3rd. Would you be in favor of making the Legislative Council elective upon the Hare system P—Mr Rolleston said there was a good deal to be said against both the Houses, but he should take time think over such a question 1 before he answered it. *4th'. Would you be prepared to oppose any other members being called to the Upper House? —Mr Rolleston said there were a great many more there now than there ought to be (hear, hear), and bo would be in favor of allowing' them to decrease. sth. Would you be prepared to oppose as far as possible any increased taxation ?—Mr Rolleston : Yes, 6th. ?Would you oppose, any further increase, in the Customs duties except for revenue purposes ? —Mr Rolleetain: Yes. 7th. Would you he in favor of taking over the large endowments now held by Colleges and High Schools, and handing them over to the Government to meet the cost of the present system of Education P—Mr Rolleston said he would not like, to commit himself upon that question, but he considered the present system wanted improving, so as to make the higher education more available to the general public. As'to handing over the . reserves, he should think before plunging them into the maelstrom of colonial finance.

Mr Aitken asked : Do you think it would be wise to hand over the reserves to the Education Boards, and let them carry out both Primary and Secondary Education ?—Mr Bolleston eaid he was not prepared to give a definite answer upon this point, but would consider the question. He was also not prepared.tp give'a definite answer as to whether a good deal o£ money would not.be saved by having all the primary work done in the Primary Schools. To Mr Mundell, he replied that he would be in favor of reducing the number of Ministers to five. Their salaries should be “ clean cut ” without perquisites.

Mr Fly; Would Mr Eollestoa be against importing Kaffirs into , the country ?—Mr Bolleeton: Yes. To Mr Postlethwaite, he said he would be in favor of reducing the salaries of the Premier to £IOOO per annum and Ministers to £BOO. The whole ■ thing should be cue down. ; To Mr Mundell, he replied he should like to hear the question of altering the present duties on eugar and tea discussed. There was a good deal to be said on both sides. As to the Otago Central and'Helensyille railways, he belieyed in the former being carried as far as the Strath Taieri, but the other was not wanted, as there was a good water-way along the whele route.

To Mr Stokes, he said the Government of which he was a member was the first to bring down a vote to catch the rich—to catch the mortgagee as well as the mortgagor. When the Civil servants were reduced hie Government set the example by reducing their own salaries 20 per cent. Mr A. Sherratt here attempted to put some question, but the audience would, not listen, and Mr Pearpoint had to beg a hear-' ing for him. . , '■* Mr Postlethwaite than came forward, in reply to whom Mr Rolleston said he knew very little about the bankruptcy law, as his business had not brought him much into connection with it, but as to whether he would amend the Act so as to compel a debtor to pay 10s in the £, except ’by a special vote of the creditors, he would like to take’ time to consider it. . - , .

To a Ratepayer Mr Rolles'on. said he would like to see the expenses of Hansard reduced. He did not believe in members correcting ,their own proofs except so far as to make bad English into good, as was sometimes required to be done. For his part, however, he would like to see a daily sheet printed instead of the present Hansard, which came out nine or ten days late, and was almost useless. In reply to Mr Aitken : He did not think it would be wise to curtail the school age of; children at either end. Many of the country schools would have t) be closed if they raised the age from five to seven. The settlement of the land, he said, would have to go on all fours with the schools, but in the present condition of the country the children should go greater distances to school. He was not prepared just yet to do away with cumulative voting at the election of School Committees, but he thought one Committee could manage several schools. To Mr Quin, Mr Rolleston said it was a poor thing to reduce the salaries of the civil servants just because they had them in their power. The grain rate was not lowered to catch the vote of Mr B. G. Wright. .... ,To MrDarlow, Mr Rolleston said he would not be a party to using the Customs for the purposes of protection, and would not go with any Ministry that violated great principles. Mr G. Tayler then rose and proposed a hearty vote of thanks to Mr|Rolleston for his address. (Applause),

Mr A. McKenzie seconded this and it was carried unanimously amidst applause. Mr Rolleston thanked them and moved a vote of thanks to the Chairman, which was carried by acclamation. The meeting then terminated.

on the part of the Government not to have surveys. They must have surveys, and if they were not having them they vere practising a very false economy. But those who had been behind the scenes md were accustomed to the figures saw ivhere the weak point was. The fact was ;hat if they would take up the survey, istimatea they would find that £13,000 or 014,000 had been taken off the Survey Department and put upon other departnents. He said that was not quite a itraight way of patting a saving. There vas no very great saving there. There vos to some extent a putting off of the ivil day as regards the special settlements, jecause the special settlements employed mrveyors of their own. But he was very nuch afraid that in a groat many cases hey would have to be done over again, md this was no economy. Now they lad com® to the climax of this year. Notwithstanding tha taking of the Sinking fund, notwithstanding that £240,000 had >aen taken from loan to pay what before vas taken out of the revenue, they bad a lefioiency : in the Ouatoma of £124,000, n Stamna of £16,000, in .Railways of £157.000--a deficiency upon the whole of rary nearly £300,000 a year, That deicienoy wouul have actually been greater >y £104,000 had it net been for a windall, which is not likely to recur again. It vas a windfa 1 in respect to the Sinking fund. Thet the Government told them hey had made savings. If any of them lad read the speech given by Mr Montgomery they would realise how far those lavings were entitled to the claim. He Mr Roilestoa) said those savings were nersly a sham. They said they had saved ipon Education the sum of £II,OOO. Some £6OOO a£ that was capitation money hat as not claimed, because the children lid not cornt for it. This he gave them is an instance to show them how the io-called savings were not savings, but iiraply non-recurring expenditures. As •egards the estimates brought down that [rear the proposed savings were simply boguses. Take for instance the boilers af the Hinemoa, £6OOO, the expenditure upon the Indian and Colonial Exhibition, £11,000: these would not )ccur again. Moreover, the whole {manual position was not disclosed in another respect. There were a number of other sxpenses which must be increased, and which were not brought down at that time. The Government never told them but they knew it from correspondence, that the Government had promised £20.000 a year for the assistance that was to be given to New Zealand by the Navy. They had also promised a contribution to the Imperial Institute,and other expenses, such as re-building the General Post-office, which •. he (Mr Rolleston) supposed was not to be ' taken out of loan, were not brought down. What were tha proposals to meet this state of things f By an increase ' of the Property Tax by £75,009, and an increase af the Customs receipts to the extent of j £186,000, Then again It was proposed» to take £75,000 off the subsidies to local bodies, and to practically throw upon the people the . burden of £75,000 to be raised by local taxation, Thus it was to fall upon the farmers and occupiers of the land in respect to charitable aid, and they would feel that nrettv smartly very