PUBLIC MEETINGS RE HARBOR BOARD LOAN.

Temuka Leader, Issue 1407, 20 October 1885, Page 2

PUBLIC MEETINGS RE HARBOR BOARD LOAN.

TBMUKA. A meeting was held l«at Saturday evening in tthe Volunteer Hall, Temuka, to consider the proposal of the Timaru Barbor Board to borrow a further loan of £IOO,OOO. At 8 o'clock there were very few present, but later en there was a fair attendance. Mr John Talbot occupied the chair, and read the advertisement calling the meeting, and also his own ap pointment as Chairman. The meeting had been called to discuss the loan proposals, but no resolution could ba moved, because a poll would have to be taken at any rate, and to move resolutions at that meeting was unnecessary. As a representative of the Harbor Board he thought it his duty to slate what their present position was, and what they intended doing with the loan. It was rather unfortunate, perhaps, that they should come, at a time of degression, to ask for their sanctun to a loan wln'ch would entail rating. He did not think rates could be avoided. It might be done by increasing the harbor charges but he diil not think that advisable. It would be better .to keep the harbor as free as possib'e, even if they had to submit to a sm*ll rate. Very few of those present but could remember how things were a few years ago. They could hardly sell grain in Timaru, as the merchants could not be sure of being able to ship, and when the railway came they had to deal with merchants 100 miles away. It used to be said there was no use in fighting with the ocean, and that the Breakwater would never be a success; but it had stood the test, and there onld no longer be any doubt h< to its safety. Some said we could not afford to have a first-clans harbor; There was no use in having it at all if they could not make what w is required. Supposing a farmer was working with a single-furrow plough, what would be thought of him if he said he could not afford a double furrow one ? It watt aaid that the grain trade would sltogathtr collapse. They all kn«w~ that J '

these thingH fluctuated. They had had a few years of bad weather and low prices for wheat, but that could not last always. j The wheat trade must revive again, and it was a trade that required very large shipping facilities. When it was found thpt mutton und wool would not pay so well as grain, there was no doubt but that farmers would return to grain growing again, and then they would want the haibor work"*. There had been about £230,000 spent on the works altogether, but a good deal of it was spent in preliminary expenses, so that until the last loan v\as sanctioned very little beyond the preliminary work was done. He then read and explained the following extrnct from the report prepared by the Board with reference to the last £IOO,OOO loin : Breakwater, €O2 feet (added to £ the length existing in 1882, 1300 feet, making in all 1900 feet of solid structure, including approach) 57,452 Wharves, part of No. 5 (widening contract), whole of Nos. 6 and 7, and Moody -vharf contract, in all 996 feet 22,500 (Total wharfage existing 1836 feet which affords 1370 feet available berthage forshipping) Plant, including new crane, Samson, £3500 7,400 Dredging 1,290 Buildings, £500; reclamation, £64 564 Salaries and expenses 3,993 Expanses, floating loan and discount 2,863 £96,062 The balance of £4OOO will likely be required to complete the extension of main wharf authorised to be constructed to where the curve begins, 120 feet. If is proposed to apply tha next loan of £IOO,OOO as nearly as may be on the following lines : Ist. 400 feet of Breakwater at £ £llO per foot 44,000 2nd. Dredging the harbor Buffi'iently to accommodate large Home-going steamers as soon as possible, and thereafter providing dredging plant sufficient to keep the harbor at proper depth 25,000 3rd. Reclaiming foreshore, north side of Breakwater, giving five acres valuable building sites... 8,000 4th. Extending Moody Wharf 400 feet 10,000 stli. Expenses floating loan and discount, say 4,000 6th. Remainder reserved for contingencies which may arise ... 9,000 £IOO,OOO After explaining these figures at some length, the Chairman went on to say that with the new loan it was proposed to extend the breakwater 400 feet. It would be required to be extended that much so that the woiks inside would sheltered. To complete tho harbor a grei»t deal more than £IOO,OOO woulrf be necessary. The proposed loan would, however, be sufficient for some time, and if it was found hereafter that the trade increased the harbor could be completed. At present ships of 1000 tons could not find shelter inside, because the range was so great that large ships pitch. There was plently of water now if it could be kept calm and pitching prevented, and every foot added to the breakwater would help in that direction by lessening the range of sea. At present coasting steamers could be safely loaded inside, but he waß in favor of carrying the work on so that large Home steamers could load there. He did not think he need say much more. Mr Gray, their own representative, and the Hon. Mr Rolloston (cheers) were also present, and both would, he hoped, give their views on the subject. They nil knew that Mr Rolleston was very careful with regard to expenditure, and they might be sure he would not approve of it if ho did not think it right. As regirds the members of the Harbor Board, thy were unanimous as regards borrowing, and the question in dispute amongst them was the amount that should be borrowed, Some were in favor of borrowing only £50,000, while the majority resolved to borrow £IOO,OOO at once. There was no doubt but that £IOO,OOO and more would be needed, and it would be better to raise it at once than to have to come again in a short time for another loan. There were great advantages to be gained by raising it all at once, as he believed that nothing short of £IOO,OOO would be quoted on the Stock Exchange. L'»st time some people thought £30,000 or £40,000 enough, but when they found how the amount borrowed had been judiciously spent they said " All right so far, but dou't go too fast." Hf would leave the matter in their hands, and he had no doubt their votes would be given in favor of the loan. Mr K. F. Gray said they had been called together to consider a question of greit importance. Already a large sum had been spent, and they were now called together to see whether a further loan should be raised, and the interest guaranteed by the ratepajers. As their member on the Harbor Board, if they asked him should it be done, he would say "Yes." For a great many years the district had been laboring under a disadvantage, owing to having no means except the railway for taking away their products. The railway was very expensive, and, besides, the stations became sometimes blocked so that there were no facilities for taking goods away at all. , if it had not been for the harbor they would be in a worse fix now, and consequently it was their duty to improva the'r facilities for the carriage of their products. If they stopped now the money already spent would be in a great measure lost. Tirnaru had changed and its trade had increased. If the trade of Tirnaru were now what it had been a few years ago the present accommodation might do, but it had increased ; and, another thing, the trade of the world would henceforth be done by large ocean-going steamers, and it behoved them to see that they made preparations for the steamers. In fact, to improve their harbor meant the bringing of the markets of the world closer to ' them. He had been accused of extravagance, but he felt that nothing less than £IOO,OOO would do. If they were to stop now they could not start again so ' advantageously when they thought it ' necessary, so it was better to go on at ' once. There was another point. The ' rate of insurance was considerable, be- ' cause of the insufficiency of shelter of s the present Breakwater. The Insurance j Companies say they cannot lower lheir fc h

innurance rates until greater shelter is found. If only £50,000 were borrowed this shelter could not be obtained with it, and they would be in the same poaition as they were now. With £50,000 they could only complete the wharves, whereas it was necessary that the Breakwater should be extended 400 feet. The Moody wharf would run into the deepest water in the harbor, and would be sheltered by the Breakwater if extended 400 feet more. There would be shelter on both aideß of it then, and if this were done they could say to the Insurance Companies " We have a safe harbor, put us on equal terms with Dunedin and Cbristcburcb." Unless this were done they need not expect a reduction in the rates of insurance. As regards rating, they need not fear that they would be rated for the next two years at any rate. If they got the loan they could invest it at interest in the bank, and the interest, together with increased dues from increased trade, would be sufficient to pay the interest for the next two years. He trusted now that they had seen the worst times, and that things would soon improve, so that by the time a rate was required the district would be in a flourishing condition. As regards the Breakwater, there could be no doubt as to its stability. It was a success beyond the anticipations of the highest authority. They had laid a grand foundation, and he hoped they would get a loan to carry it on. There was one thing he could tell them. There was not one member of the Board who would spend one pound unless he thought it would tarn out remunerative. (Applause). If they were to stop now it would be a great misfortune—greater by far than having to pay a rate. If the loan were granted it would place them on equal footing with other parts of the colony win regard to the markets of the world, and they could easily realise the advantage that would be gained. Besides insurance rates being high, the rates of freight were bigh, because shipowners thought the place a second-class harbor, and would not risk it unless they got high prices. He trusted they would take a common sense view of the question, weigh the mutter well, and that they would como to the conclusion it would be great folly to stop now. (Applause). The flon. Mrßolleston said he had not a great deal to say. He quite concurred with what Messrs Gray and Talbot had so ably said. He came there as a ratepayer who felt a deep interest as to which place the trade of the district should go, and he had no hesitation in expressing his warm concurrence with the proposal to borrow the money. As regards the Loan Act, under which this money was to be raised, it pasaed through the House without any question being raised against it—it was looked upon by the House as sound and business-like. They all knew, as Mr Talbot had said, that he was not a man who would rusli hastily to expend borrowed money, but this was a different thing. The harbor had been a great success, and it would be a great mistake to stop it now. When the £IOO,OOO was passed by the Provincial Council for this harbor it was said that it ffould not be a success. In fact, great difference of opinion existed amongst the Engineers on the subject, and he confessed he had misgivings with regard to it. Now all causes of doubt were removed, aud it would be folly to stop a work which hid wrown to be so useful. He had no doubt as To the question of £50,000 and £IOO,OOO. There was no use in " nibbling " with it. It was known that the £.100,000 would be wanted. There was another point with regard to this which had been overlooked by other speakers. They did not know that they could have the same facilities for borrowing money in two years' time that they had now. If they borrowed the money now they could place it in the Bank and get as good interest for it as they would have to pay, so that there could be no loss. The work would be rendered diffi. cult by delay, and it would have to be kept going to rsnder it useful. There was one thing he would recommend, and that was quick despatch of steamers. The large steamers would undoubtedly do the trade in future, but they could not get them until they put the port in a position that they could load there. The rapid insrease of trade showed that they would soon want the large steamers. As regarded growing wheat there was nothing more certain than that it would revive; and another thing be believed was that the railway could not carry goods cheaper than at present. The present Government took office obviously for the purpose of lowering the railway freights, but evidently they felt their responsibility, and they came to the same conclusion as his Government—that they would not be justified in doing so. As the work had been so successful they ought all to put their hand to the plough now and go on. (Applause.) The Chairman said he saw in that morning's paper the report of a meeting held at Peel Forest. In it the Rev. Mr Barclay was reported to have said that the Board had little to show for the amount of money expended. If they went on that view of the question they would see how absurd it would be. A tremendous amount had been spent on roads and bridges, yet no one ever looked for interest from it. This harbor was as necessary as a road or a bridge, and it w ould be absurd to look for interest on the money expended on it. By raising the harbor dues money could be raised, but he thought it, would be far better to pay a small rate than do that. Mr Bissett asked how much was paid in salaries. The Chairman said the net income for 1883 was £2500, and for 1884 £4OOO, over working expenses. It was a good sign to find the income increasing notwithstanding the dull times. The official expenses were £530. Mr Guild asked if it was the opinion of the Engineer that as soon as the Moody wharf was finished there would be accommodation for ocean-going steamers ? The Chairman: Yes, with a little Iredging. Mr Guild said he was not in favor of too many rating bodies. If they were to illow the Harbor Board to rate they must io away with the County Council. If :hat were done he waß quite prepared for i Harbor Board rate. He did not think, lowever, there would be much of a •ate wanted. Thera would be a great ?eal of reclaimed land. The land >n this side of the Breakwater vould be reclaimed by the Board, and on he other side the sea would reclaim it, o that the Board would have a splendid >roperty. There wss a good deal of Jovernment land in tho district whioh

was increased in value by tliis harbor, and he thought they ought to get an endowment out of it for the harbor. They could not increase the value of property here without the Government land participating in the increased -value, and it was therefore only fair that the Government land should contribute towards the harbor. Another thing was : they ought to take up the Sydney trade. There was a large trade in potatoes between Kaiapoi and Sydney, and there was no reason why the same should not be here. In Kaiapoi £2 par acre was got for land to grow potatoes for the Sydney market, and Kaiapoi was farther away from the port of Lyttelton than this district was from Tiraaru. The vast trade in potatoes raised the value of land from £3 to £4 per an acre in Kaiapoi. There tvae no reason why a similar result could not be produced here. Mis idea about wheat growing was that so long as people consumed flour wheat must be grown, and so long as ws can grow 40 bushels to the acre we will hold our own with any other place. He anticipated that more wheat than ever would be grown before long. He hoped the Chairman would change his views with regard to the County Council. He would like to see it abolished, and its functions exercised by the Chairman of Road Boards with regard to large works. It was not wheat alone they should look to. They would have to have a harbor for their frozen meat and other products. He had heard it Baid that it was wrong to freeze meat in South Canbury, because the meat freezing appliances at Christchurch and Dunedin were already sufficient. That might be true, but what about the railway freight? He, for one, would not be fool enough to pay it so long as they could export from their own port. (Applause). Mr F. W. Badham said he could assure the Chairman there would be opposition to the proposal, because he would oppose it himself. He thought a great deal of opposition—more than the Chairman anticipated—would be offered to it. This was a " nibble" forTimaru. The Timaru people knew what they were doing. When they wanted to improve anything they always came to the lunatics in the country. (Laughter). He opposed the loan because it was not wanted. The accommotlatijn at present was sufficient for their requirements. The produce of land was at present unsaleable. Wheat was at 2s 6d, oats at Is 3d, and wool scarcely worth sending Home, and yet they asked us to give them this £IOO,OOO loan. And they said this was not all; they would come again and again, »nd would probably spend a million of money on it before they stopped. They were not In a position to meet it, and he trusted it wruld not be granted. The Chairman had said he believed there would be no opposition to it, but he believed he would find a large party opposed to it, although probably not sufficient to prevent it being carried. Mr Lee was in favor ot the Harbor Board going on. It cost 39s to briog a ton of groceries from Dunedin, und 333 from Christchurch, but if they got it from a vessel at the port of Timaru they need only pay about 83. There were 200 tons of salt brought into this district last year. They might reckon on £1 per ton being saved on that if they had a good harbor. There was £2OO on salt alone. (Applause). It would put 4s on every bale of wool in the district, and, another thing, they would be brought face to face with the merchants instead of doing business with the commission agents the very class he desired to see rooted out. At present the merchants were in Dunedin or Christchurch, and they were too far away. He would like always to go to the fountain head, and hava nothing to do with commission agents, and if they had a good harbor they would have their own merchants in fiunru, and it would be a great advantage. He believed Timaru was nearer London than was Lyttelton; and consequently there was no reason why they should not have good." as cheap. If they went to Christchurch or Dunedin they could see the warehouses there. There was no reason why similar warehouses should not be in Timaru, and there v/ould be if they looked after themselves. (Applause). The Chairman hoped that before the ratepayers were called upon to pay rates for this loan things would be managed so that the Board would not rate. He hoped it would be arranged so that the locnl bodies would pay, us it would be ,; a very costly thiog to collect so email a rate. He did not sympathise with rating any more than other people, but he thought it was better to have rates and good work done. He was glad there was one opponent, but Mr Badham made such a bad speech that it appeared be did not believe in what he said. (Laughter.) It was the worst speech be ever made. In reply to a question, the Chairman Baid that a rate of one farthing in thb £ would pay a year and a-half's interest, so that whatever the rate would be it would not be large, The rateable value of the district was £6,500,000, and £d in the £ would yield £3400. In proportion to area and rateable value the expenditure on the Timaru Breakwater would not be so great as that on the Lyttelton Harbor. In reply to a question, Mr Rolleaton said there had bes-n no opposition to the endowment for Timaru as it never came properly before the House. He, with Messrs Turnbull and Sutter, came to the conclusion that there was no possibility of getting it. If it was given to Timaru all the ports in New Zealand would want an endowment, and there would not be enough for them nil. They then came to the conclusion that there was no use in prejudicing the chances of the fioan Act by blinging forward this, and they did not go any farther with it. If ether harbors weat in for endowments they could rest assured that South Canterbury members would look after their interests, No other ratepayer appearing desirous of speaking, the Chairman said it was his duty to declare that a poll would be taken. The date would be made known in due course. The meeting then terminated with the usual vote of thanks to the Chairmau, proposed by Mr Coira. PEEL FOREST. A meeting of the ratepayers in Mount Peel Riding of the Geraldine County was held in the Road Board office, Peel Forest., on Friday, to consider the Timaru Harbor Hoard's proposal to borrow a further loan of £IOO,OOO for harbor works. The Hon. j. B. A. Acland presided, and there were about a doaen rater payers present.

The Chairman explained the object of the meeting, and for information stated that it was proposed to apply the loan as follows :—lst, 400 of Breakwater nt £llO per foot, £44,000 ; 2nd, Dredging the harbor sufficiently to accommodate large Home-going steamers as soon as possible, and thereafter providing dredging plant sufficient to keep the harbor at proper depth, £25,000 ; 3rd, Reclaiming foreshore north side of Breakwater, giving five acres valuable building sites, £8,000; 2fh, Extending Moody Wharf 400 feet, £IO,OOO ; sth, Expenses floating loan and discount, say £4,000 ; 6th, Remainder reserved for contingencies which may arise, £9OOO. The Chairman then went on to say that the reduction in port charges since the present improvements had been effected to the Timaru Harb >r did not strike attention so much as the saving by direct shipping. Almost, if not all, would remember the trouble and difficulty they used to have in former years in shipping their produce, And it was an undeniable fact that the facilities now afforded by the Timaru Harbor were a great benefit to the district, and would be so in future. (Hear, hear.) Though no motion was to be moved for or against, the proposal, he hoped each one present would state his views, aRd he (the Chairman) would be glad to answer any questions as far as he could. Mr Tripp said though he would like to have seen a representative of the Harbor Board present, yet they were fortunate in getting the information the Chairman had laid before them he quite agreed with the Chairman that the works in Timaru had been a great success, but to make a good harbor they would have to dredge, so that large steamers could com* iu, or they would always have only a secondclass harbor. Unless the large steamers came in they would have to send their frozen meat to Lyttelton, and the same with other classes of produce, and they could not compete with Lyttelton or Chalmers unless they did so. £50,000 more would make a good harbor ot Timaru, bat, as Mr Moody had said, it would coat as much to raise £50,000 as £IOO,OOO, and a less sunn than the latter would not be quoted on the Stock Exchange. Mr Tripp then quoted from a statement of the Chairman of the Harbor Board at the meeting on August 13th, in which he said that the net, revenue for the month had been £lll9 19s 4d, and at the special meeting of the Board on Sept. 22nd that the next revenue for the year 1885 promised to reach £4OOO. £2300 had been saved on wool alone in 1884, and on an average of 86,000 sacks of wheat shipped to the United Kingdom for four years, £3200, and to this was to be added saving on shipping charges £3900, which showed a total saving to the district of £.9,400 in one year's working. Mr Dennistoun said there had been no saving to the wool producer, as in shipping wool by the coastal steamers (0 the Home ships at Port Chalmers, the freight was paid by the owners of those ships. Mr R. Mackay said that since the Breakwater had been started it had been a saving of 3s per bale to him, Mr Dennistoun said he was not going against the harbor, but he thought the Chairman of the Board had not put this fact in a proper light. Mr Tripp then read extracts from speeches of the members of the Harbor Board at the special meeting in September, showing an increase of the revenue of the port each year since the Breakwater had been commenced. In 1882 the gross revenue was £4963 16s id, and the net revenue for 1885 was estimated at £3500 or £4OOO. The Breakwater, when the present contracts are finished, will have been carried out a total length of 1900 feet, .ind there will be a total wharfage of 1836 feet, of which 1370 feet is available berthing for shipping. Partial shelter will be afforded over 115 acres, and 61 acres are available for good shelter. A rate of three-sixteenths of one penny iu the £ would produce £SOOO, and thiß would not be a very heavy burden on the farmers when the advantages to be gained were taken into consideration, and as Mr Talbot pointed out, a farmer owning 500 acres of land would not be called upon to pay more than £4 a year. He (Mr Tripp) would like to mention one thing, and that was the frozen meat worts at Timaru. If the harbor was not made available for large steamers it was probable that they would have to trust to sailing vessels to take the meat Home, and he need not mention tho disadvantages and loss of time that would entail. Or, again, they would have to pay railway charges to LytteltoD or Port Chalmers, and that would just about take away all the profit from the trade. If they did not get a good harbor they could not fix their own charges, but would, he might say, be dependent upon the attitude of Lyttelton. It was probable they would not be called upon to pay a rate to meet the interest on the loan, and if they did it would be so small they would not feel it. (Applause). On a ratepayer regretting the absence of Mr Talbot from the meeting, Mr R. Mackay said he had b9en asked to apologise for hi* (Mr Talbot's) absence. His views on the subject were, however, well known throughout the district. In answer to Mr Thew, as to whether the Harbor Board could put any portion of the £IOO,OOO loan out at interest, the ChairmaD replied in the affirmative.

Mr Thew thought that if the money were borrowed at 4 percent at Home, and they could get 5 per cent for a portion of it here, he would certainly bo in favor of borrowing the sum proposed. Mr Dennistoun said that according to one of the members of the Board the rate, if ever, would not be required before three years' time. The Rev. Geo. Barclay, who was present, on being pressed to give his views said the meeting must be very thankful to the Chairman and Mr Tripp for the valuable information they had given, He thought it was an oversight on the part of the Harbor Board that tlioy had not sent a representative. He was of opinion that it was not altogether a ques'ion of th» popsible extension of the Breakwater and increased facilities tor shipping they had to consider. If such a sum •«» w»s proposed to be borrrovvec] was spent in harbor works in a place like Timaru, it was bound to make great improvements to the town and district. There was no doubt but that the present woiks had been a success. Anyone who now took a stroll along tiie breakwater must be struck with the vast improvements which had heen effected, and all in a few years. There was another side to the borrowing question, howerer, How were the poople

to bear the extra tax ? It ha 1 been said that it would !.,.< snull, but when all the taxes which have to paid now were taken into account, they amountH to a considerate sum in a year, and there was not much proHpe-cl of them lessening, hit rather the reverse. Another point was this: £227,000 had been nlieady spent, and the tiff income of the Bo.rd from the port last vear was about; £3OOO, against about £2OOO in the previous year ; that was to Ray that against an expenditure of £227,000 there was ;m income of only £2500. If another £IOO,OOO were borrowed it would mean a charge of nearly £IO,OOO a year upon the district. There was no doubt the harbor had been a great besefit to the district, and he did not wish it to be concluded that he was against the proposal now before the meeting. Mr Tripp said that all new undertakings wanted time to gnt into working order before a profit could be looked for. If large steamers were brought to Timaru, the revenue would increase. The railways of Canterbury were paying better than those of the North Island. The latter wanted time. Mr R. Mackay thought that even if there were a rate to pay, they would save moro than the amount of it in the advantage of shipping direct. Mr Barclay thought the basis of rating for haibor works purposes was not a fair one. The value of property in and near Timaru must increase in a greater degree than in outside places. If large sums of money were spent on the harbor, and he thought it would only be fair if property were rated according to the ratio of its increased value. The Chairman was of opinion that as better facilties were afforded for shipping and for transit by railways, so things were bound to get cheaper, and if saving was eff. cted this way they could afford to piy a rale for money borrowed for further improvements. (Hear, hear.) Some discussion then took place as to the duto to he fixed for the poll, when a date was proposed, to be submitted to the Chaiiiuan of the Harbor Board. A vote of thanks «a 3 proposed to the Chairman and the meeting then terminated. Public meetings at Pleasant Point ard St. Andrews have fice'ared in favor of tho proposed new loan for harbor works at Timaru.