TOLL-GATES.

Taranaki Daily News, 27 July 1921, Page 3

TOLL-GATES.

LOCAL BODIES’ VIEWS. EVIDENCE BEFORE ENGINEERS. COUNTY COUNCIL’S CASE. BOROUGH COUNCIL’S VIEW. The committee of engineers of the Public Works Department who have been appointed to enquire into the applications of various local bodies in Taranaki for permission to erect tollgates, sat at New Plymouth yesterday. The members of the committee are .Messrs. G. T. Murray (inspecting engineer). H. H. Sharp (staff engineer), and Mr. T. Al. Ball (district engineer). Mr. Murray presided, and read the following order cf reference: —(1) In what manner have conditions now altered that special action is now considered necessary in regard to the upkeep of loads?; (2) what special action is now advocated?; (3) What are the alternatives ?

There were present: The Mayor (Mr. F.-E. Wilson), and the General Manager (Mr. ,F. T. Bellringer), Messrs. J. S. Connett (chairman), and R. O. Ellis (clerk), representing Taranaki County Council; Mr. T. C. List (president of the Taranaki Chamber of Commerce); and Mr. R. H. Pigott (chairman of the Clifton County Council).

The situation of the Taranaki County Council was dealt with at length by Mr. ■Connett, and his remarks were an advocacy in favor of erecting toll-gates as a means of giving relief To his council. lie said toll-gates were first erected many years agd, when the main roads were in a very bad condition and when the rates received, were quite inadequate to meet the cost of upkeep. The roads were eventually restored to a good state of repair, and the time came when gates could be abolished. Conditions, however, had changed again. With the advent of dairy farming and the institution of many factorfes, road maintenance was becoming difficult in those districts not 1 served by the railways on account of the amount of transport of dairy produce. The county at present had one j gate at Okato; and the revenue collected I was a big factor in maintaining the /lain South Road. There was a good deal of traffic in the Taranaki County of a foreign nature, viz., going to or coming from other counties within a radius of fifty miles, and from which the county at present received no revenue. The council was finding the burden of upkeep of the roads very heavy. It was true that a Main Roads Bill was to be introduced next session, w’ith the idea of meeting this problem. ' The Bill, however, might not be immediately acceptable to local bodies, and it might be some time before relief was afforded. In the meantime, if toll gates were approved, the revenue collected would be a material addition to the funds of the county. The council had gone in for a £40.000 loan for tar-sealing, but owing to largely increased costs this sum would need to be supplemented. THE MAXIMUM RATE. Proceeding, Mr. Connett said it had been assumed that much harm would be cone by toll-gates, as they would divert traffic from the town. The County Coun- , cil, however, claimed to have the inI terests of the town at heart, too, and in I their opinion the Borough Council would i best serve their own interests by with- ' (Tawing their opposition to the method suggested of improving the avenues of communication between the borough and county.

As showing the hardship under which the county was suffering, Mr. Connett pointed out that they were imposing the 'maximum rare of 3d in the £ on the capital value, and in addition there was n hospital levy of one-third of a penny. The council had reputedly made efforts to secure assistance in some form or other, but had not been successful so I far. He thought the council was entitled to some temporary help until some more satisfactory method was brought forward. The chairman:-What other gates are (you now proposing? j * Mr. Connett: One on each of the [main roads leading into New Plymouth. [ The Mayor: And as near to our bounida.ry as possible/ Replying to Mr. Sharp, Mr. Connett said the county proposed to use the revenue from the gates to supplement the loan which had been raised for tarring, and after that the toll would be used for maintenance. Mr. Sharp: It would be a long time before you would lay down your roads in tar from toll-gate revenue, judging by the Stratford position. Mr. Connett pointed out that they would also have the loan monies. The chairman enquired as to the income from the present toll-gate, and the county clerk (Mr. R. O. Ellis) replied that the receipts were £BOO the first year, and had risen to £l9OO in 1920.. The cost of collection was £2OB. but this did not include depreciation and interest on buildings. Mr. Sharp said it would probably cost £3OO if the council desired to erect another, gate. Answering the chairman as to the expenditure on road traffic, the clerk said the Main South Road was costing £3OO per mile, whereas some years ago it was only £lOO. The chairman: Do you put that down to motor traffic? Mr. Connett: Very largely. The chairman pointed out that there had been a 100 per cent, increase in the cost of labor. COUNTY FINANCES. The chairman: Can your engineer say how that £3OO was prrived at? (Mr. Connett replied that the cost had not been njade up for some time, and the present overseer was not conversant with the previous figures, having only been in the council’s employ some months. The chairman said it was very desirable to know the present cost. Mr. Connett: All we know is that at the end of the year we can’t make ends meet. Air. Sharp said that in the absence of data it was difficult to know whether the cost w-as due to extra traffic or, perhaps, to the 'money not being spent to the best advantage. ’ It was very necessary that the county should know what the roads were costing. The chairman: You consider you make a profit of £l7OO on the present gate? What do you expert to make on the other ? Mr. Connett replied that this would be hard to gauge. Probably the figure would be about £3OOO. The chairman: With these toll-gates supplying the estimated revenue, would you then be able to finance the county? Another £3OOO would be very helpful.

The chairman asked for particulars of the proposal© in connection with the £40,000 loan, and Mr. Connett said that they were going to put down certain lengths of road each year in bitumen; they haxl decided on the latter instead of rar. The chairman; On whose advice have you adopted bitumen? —We are using a mixture of tar and bitumen, as it is claimed this gives a longer wear. In the event of toll-gates not being agreed to, how would you raise the additional rates to put your roads in order? --Well, they cannot be raised, so we will have to remain as we are. If the Government will not give us toll-gates they should be prepared to give ue a. grant.

In further explanation of the subsidy question, Mr. Connett said his council had asked for a subsidy of 10s in the £ this year on the £lO,OOO they proposed to expend; this was equivalent to a grant of £5OOO.

The chairman pointed out that, the adoption of a. ten shillings subsidy to counties would mean a. big expense to the Government.

Discussion on the. question of valuation then followed, Mr. Connett stating that their last valuation was taken in 1913. He expected the next figures, which he understood were now in course of preparation, to be about fifty per cent, higher. The chairman said that by keeping their rates at the’same level the council would be in a good financial position on the new valuation. QUESTION OF VALUATION. Mr. Connett replied that in that case the levy would be pretty high. They thought the ratepayers had enough to meet already. He said the impression had got abroad that they had a low valuation in Taranaki, and that the solution was to be found by increasing the valuation. » Quoting figures he pointed out that Waimate West ('which was-dield up as an exemplary county) had a valuation of £43 per acre on the revised figures. If Taranaki went up in the same proportion the average would be £l3 10s, and probably these valuations wore in fair proportion to the respective quality of the land. The rate in Waimate was 14d in the .£, while the rate in Taranaki was 3i.d, the maximum. The Government subsidy was advanced on a fd rate, and that was where Waimate got the benefit. The. Taranaki County received in subsidy £llOO on £17,000, which worked out at G>! per cent., while Waimate’s percentage was 12j per cent. Mr. Connett pointed out that there

were 800 cars at the recent big football match, and this would gii?e the committee an idea of the traffic which had to be contended with. Tn the course of further remarks he proceeded to advocate the taxation ' and registration of cars each year, which he said, would be a help in giving the number of cars in the district and would also be a means of getting further revenue. A minimum charge could be made, and increased in proportion to the value of the particular car. A small increase in the charge of petrol might also be considered as a means cf levy. The chairman: What about the- dairy farmer? Mr. Connett replied that the dairy farmer could send in a return of what petrol ho used for his dairy machines and receive a rebate of the tax. Mr. Ball: Have you thought of getting at the. pleasure people by putting a tax on the gate money at football matches and race meetings? Air. T. C. List pointed out that the racing clubs were already heavily taxed. Mr. Bellringer said it waa evident that the county could not do for the £40,000 loan anything like the mileage# suggested. A good deal of the money had gone into plant. Not recognising that •car-sealing (which began in the province as far back as 191.3) had to come into force the county had got into financial difficulties and th« work was going to cost them three or four times more than it would, have when the people of South Taranaki grasped the fact that a change was necessary. THE BOROUGH POSITION. A lengthy statement, was then put forward by Mr. Bellringer, setting out the Borough Council’s views. He stated: The New Plymouth Borough Council is strenuously opposed to the establishment of further toll gates, and its views thereon are set out in the attached correspondence with the Minister of Public Works as follow: The borough's objection to the application of the Taranaki County Council for permission to erect toll gates are as follows:

(a) The establishment of toll gates is a most reactionary and retrogressive measure, and is probably the most wasteful and expensive method of collection of taxation in existence. <• (b) If the Taranaki County Council be granted permission to erect toll gates, there is no valid reason why practically every other county council and borough council should not be permitted to <to tte same. were done the roads throughout the whole Dominion would be barricaded with toll gates, and an intolerable and oppressive state of affairs Would be created throughout the Dominion. (c) If only certain selected counties were permitted to erect toll gates an injustice would be done to such other counties, inasmuch as the selected counties would collect the revenue, notwithstanding that, the traffic passed over and damaged the roads of the other counties. Bitter resentment would thereupon of a. certainty arise on the w parr those counties not permitted ’to erect toll gates. (d) At present Taranaki is the home of toll gates, there being seven within the provincial district. The local authorities throughout the district should therefore be in a position to judge whether toll gates are a satisfactory method of collection of revenue. Yet on July 18, 1919, at a conference of local bodes of the Taranaki provincial district, the following recommendation submitted by a sub-committee was unanimously carried: — ‘‘The committee unanimously recommends that in order to abolish toll gates and eliminate objectionable traffic by-laws' and to enable local bodies to successfully cope with the large and increasing motor traffic, the Dominion Conference vigorously urge upon the Government the necessity of iiftreasing the present local body subsidies to 10s in the £ on all general rates collected. That as a ■means to providing the necessary funds, the Government be asked to sufficiently increase (1) existing motor tyre tax, and (2) existing totalisator tax." (e) The above resolution has since been endorsed by the foil, ing important conferences: The Municipal Authorities, .County Councils, and New Zealand Automobile Union. It is absolutely clear, therefore, that the public opinion and tho opinion of the men forming the local authorities controlling the roads in New Zealand, is strongly against toll gates and in favor of the tyre tax. (f) That the object of the applicants in applying for permission to erect toll gates is really to show the unreasonableness of the present law. and If the applications be granted it will tend to bring ridicule upon a very important Government department. Even the applicants recognise that tho question of providing. revenue for the upkeep of arterial roads is one which must be dealt with F>y the Government, and not by individual local authorities. The tax must be a national one operating uniformly throughout the whole. Dominion. Ti'e scattering of toll gates throughout the Dominion merely increased the difficulty, causing unjustness, hardship and resentment in the districts in which they are established, and in no way assists to solve this y&ry important question.

EFFECT ON THE TOWN, The establishment of further toll gates would have a. detrimental effect upon the whole of the provincial district, and would -be • especially injurious to Now Plymouth. New Plymouth is the commercial centre of Taranaki, and its port is the' port for practically the whole province; The country districts and the. town are interdependent. We depend upon tho commodities produced in the county for the necessities of life, and for our trade. In return we assist in the marketing of the produce of the country, and in providing manufactured articles in the shape of boots, clothing, machinery and other commodities. All that the farmers produce has to be shipped through the port, and almost everything he requires for the working of his farm, machinery, manures, etc., leaches him through the port. The prosperity of the whole would therefore be seriously retarded if. unjust restrictions in the shape of tolls are imposed upon-the use of the roads. The expression “Ring fencing New Plymouth” has been used in connection with the proposal by the Taranaki County Council to establish toll ga.tes on the outskirts of the town, and this fairly describes the position. It cannot be supposed that people will pay tolls merely for the privilege of doing business here. On the other hand, It will seriously affect the county ratepayers, as it stands to reason that if a carrier delivering goods over the borough boundary has to pay toll he will add the amount paid, on to his charge for delivery.

Continuing, the general manager stated:—There are seven toll gates at present in 'Wome counties having two gates, the others one each. Application has been made for the establishment of seven more, four in .tljp Egmont County and three in ft tbe Taranaki County. One of these gates is within two -miles of an existing gate in an adjoining county, and another is within four miles of a similar existing gate. Being in different counties, payment at one gate would not clear the otner gate. It is therefore possible that a

: settler using four miles of road daily 1 to take his milk to a factory, would be called upon to pay two tolls. There are eleven counties in the Taranaki provincial district, and if each county were permitted to establish two or three gates, all vehicles would be taxed off the roads. If the toll gates, for which permission has already been applied for are established, New Plymouth will be surrounded by a double ■ line of toll gates. No vehicle will be permitted to travel 25 miles in any di-

rection from Nfew Plymouth without paying two tolls. If all the counties are permitted to establish toll gates (and if one county obtains permission others naturally are entitled to the same treatment) the number of tolls to be paid would naturally increase. STRAIN ON FINANCES. \ The agitation for the establishment of toll gates and obnoxious traffic bylaws has been largely due to the advent of the motor car, which* has necessitated great changes in the method of construction of main arterial roads. Roads which were quite good enough for farmers’ vehicles go rapidly to pieces under motor traffic. Local authorities are therefore faced with the problem as to whether they will attempt tq maintain these roads at almost prohibitive cost or adopt later and more efficient methods with less annual maintenance costs. Whichever policy is adopted; the finances of most of the local bodies con corned have been placed under a very severe strain, in the first instance by , the heavy annual maintenance charges, ' and in the second by having to provide I the interest upon the capital cost of i constructing the new road, plus a re- ' duced amount for annual maintenance. '

This strain upon their finances has induced local bodies to adopt various methods to meet the situation. The local bodies in South. Taranaki, led by the Eltham County Council, were the first to realise that the motor vehicle had come to stay and that in future roads must be constructed to suit this class of traffic. They immediately set about raising special loans for tire purpose of tar-sealing their roads before, the motor traffic had destroyed the existing macadamised ' foundations. They raised the money when money was cheap, and did the work when labor and materials were cheap, and they saved the existing foundations of their roads. The result is the fine roads in South Taranaki, quoted as an example to the rest of th. Dominion. Other counties apparently did not see the necessity of adopting a | similar policy, but attempted to still j construct and maintain their roads with ' ordinary macadam. The consequence nas ' been that the cost of road maintenance has gone up until it is almost prohibitive. placing -the counties in financial difficulties. The'fact, however, has driven itself home, and the various counties are gradually adopting more modern methods of road construction, but the cost of the work is enormously greater now than it would have been four or five years ago'. The loan money required will probably he 2t<> rimes as much now as then. Interest is higher, and altogether the annual charges for interest and sinking fund can be taken as three times as much as would have been the case had the money been raised and the work done four or five years ago. Having made a bad error of judgment, these counties now look round for something to help' them out of their financial difficulties. They realise that the toll gate is only a temporary expedient, and will not provide a remedy, but they feel that the establishment of toll gates in all parts of the country will provoke such an outbreak as will force the Government to consider the whole question of the upkeep of tinmain arterial roads on a Dominion basis. They therefore apply for permission to establish toll gates, but the evidence set out in the attached correspondence clearly discloses their real object. ■.'PUBLIC OPPOSE GATES. Even in their own counties the weight of public opinion is against them. Take the 1 case of the Taranaki County, which is applying for three gates. The chairman convened a meeting of his ratepayers on Saturday, June 21, 1919, to consider certain proposed by-laws dealing with the licensing of vehicles ' using county roads. After his explanation, the following resolution was carried against him unanimously: “That this meeting is of opinion that a compulsory motor tax is necessary, and that i the right of local bodies to levy a wheel I tax or erect a toll gate should be ex- I punged from the Statutes of the Do- j minion.” Take the case of the Egmont j County, which is applying for permis- ; sion to erect four gates. A public meeting at Warea was totally opposed to toll gates, and at the county meeting held on the 12th instant even the county . councillora realised, that their rate- ’

payers would not put up with toll gates. The agitation for toll gates is entirely reactionary, and entirely a,gainst the best, interests of the. county. It is an attempt to tax the motor vehicles off ho road. Those responsible for the agitation, by overlooking the fact that the motor vehicle is the vehicle of the future, cannot see that they are attempting the. jmpossible. In future the roads must be constructed to stand the strain and s'tress of quick moving traffic, and it is to the advantage of everyone that this fact should be realised. Roads are only a means to an end. They arc part of our whole transport system, and are even more essential from the national point of view than railways. Roads are for the use and benefit of everybody, and are the foundation upon which rests the whole commercial prosperity of the country. Without roads the farmer would be unable to market his produce, and tho town would be unable to obtain raw materials for its factories, and would be unable to deliver the goods, even if the raw materials could ' be obtained. Without roads, therefore, production would dip and civilisation would die. The same effect in a minor degree will obtain if intolerable restrictions are placed upon the use of roads. Tim future prosperity of the Dominion, therefore, depends upon the development and not upon the restriction of road traffic.

Traffic in the country must be developed by means of the motor vehicle, which has a great advantage over tne railways in relatively short distanoe I haulage. With a motor vehicle goods I can be taken right on to the farms from ' tire warehouses, and produce can be j conveyed from the farmers and. dairy factories direct to the port or cool storage works. An enormous amount of double handling is eliminated by the use of these vehicles, and cost of transport is reduced thereby. All this is in the national interest, as the lower the cost of transport can be kept the Better will it he for industry and for the country as a whole. ALTERNATTV’E PROPOSALS. The barricading of roads in all directions toll gates must necessarily have a serious detrimental effect upon the development of the motor traffic, and thereby a serious detrimental effect upon the future prosperity of the whole Dominion. Whilst this is so, no one will seriously attempt to deny that as the motor vehicle requires a. better class of road, the owner of the motor vehicle should be called upon to bear a share of the cost of maintaining the roads. It is in the method of taxation that opinions differ. The great weight of public opinion is, however, that the taxation must be reasonable, and must be uniform throughout the Dominion, and further, that the questipn is altogether too important to bo left to the unrestrained discretion of individual local authorities. That this is so may be seen from the following resolution passed at a conference of Taranaki local bodies held at Eltham on .Inly 18, 1919: •‘That in order :.o abolish toll gates and eliminate objectionable traffic by-laws, and to enable local bodies to successfully cope with the large and increasing

motor traffic, the Dominion Conference vigorously urge upon the Government the necessity of increasing the present local body subsidy to 10s in the £ on all general rates collected; that as a means to providing the necessary funds, the Government be asked to sufficiently | increase (1) the existing motor tyre | tax, and (2) existing totalisator tax’.” ; This resolution was subsequently endorsed by the New Zealand Dominion 'Conference of county councils, by the ( Municipal Association of New Zealand, i and by .the New Zealand Automobile. | Association. The solution suggested | may, therefore, be accepted as rhe conI sidered opinion of the whole nF the 10-1 1 cal bodies in New Zealand, and of the

' representatives of the owners of motor vehicles. The distribution of the duty received will be a matter for the Government, but 1 believe that a very large proportion of the duty should bo sei. as id- to provide the. interest on a. very large loan for flic reconstruction of the main arterial roads of the Dominion. The scheme of road improvements required iis altogetlier too large to attempt with i the yearly proceeds of .the duty. It is I a bad policy to attempt to maintain a | road constructed with wrong materials, j and it is going to cost much more than if the capita.! funds necessary for reconstruction wore borrowed ' and the roads constructed to suit the traffic, and in such a. way that the cost of the annual repair and maintenance is reduced to a minimum. Asked whether he thought toll-gates were the solution of his council’s difficulty, or whether they were only a temporary measure, Mr. Connett said:— “We. look to the Government to help us out.” Mr. Bellringer.- You always looked upon a tyre tax as the real .solution of the difficulty?—Yes; we hoped the Government would do something.

A RING OF GATES. A few remarks on the general aspect of the position were made by the Mayor, who pointed out that the proposal of*the Taranaki County Council to establish three toll-gates on -the main roads Icad- ( ing to New Plymouth was quite unfait | to the town, and not a benefit, as Mr. Connett would have them believe. This was ’obvious, as people were not going to incur tax in. coming to New Plymouth jif they could go to other towns. This | toll-gate question also had a tendency ■to arouse unfriendly feeling between ! neighboring communities. There was a toll-gate erected at Okato, and the Egmont County had no other outlet except over the Taranaki Councils roads; this .•.;is a most unfriendly act. Obviously’ if permission were given by : lie Government to the Taranaki County Council to establish gates as proposed similar applications would have to be (approved from other local bodies. They i would have gates on both sides of Inglei wood, Waitara and Stratford, and this would be to the inconvenience of the people, both in town and country, for just as there was a stream of people into a town there was a regular volume of outward traffic. Mr. Connett, replying to Mr. Wilson on the question of the establishment of the toll-gate at Okato, said the Taranaki County roads was carrying the traffic from nine factories who sent their produce into the stores at New Plymouth. Some method was necessary' to finance the maintenance of the ! road, and personally he believed it was | an advantage to the Egmont County to I have a good outlet to the producers’ ( stores. The toll-gate proposal had been I denounced as being unfair to New Plyj mouth, but why, he asked, should the county be called upon to make good roads leading to the town ? There was I nothing to prevent them leaving a portion of the road in a bad state. Mr. Bellringer: The ratepayers.

Mr. Connett said there was nothing to compel his council to maintain the roads' in the condition they were trying to keep up. 'There had been a comparison between his council and South Taranaki, but their respective positions were different. The had been pushed on in South Taranaki because of the increasing dearness of metal. His council were endeavoring to make out- ; de motor traffic contribute in some fair way to the maintenance oi the roads they used, which they did not -do now. Air. Bellringer said the financial stringency was common to all local bodies, and he pointed out that while the. total of rate!} collected by the New Plymouth Borough in 1914 was £13,539, for the year ending March, .1922, it would be £33,835. Mr. Sharp:' You agree it is necessary ;!.s far as the county is concerned that they should have some assistance to maintain the roads? Mr. Bellringer: I think the motor vehicle is entitled to pay something for , the use of the roads, and 1 think the owners are willing to do <3O, but not by toll. I think it should be on a Dorninin basis.

LARGER SUBSIDY SUGGESTED. Air. List said the general manager had put forward a full and logical statement and he (the speaker), on behalf of the commercial community desired to give thi«s unqualified endorsement. Ho pointed.out that Mr. Connett had changed bis views on the question cf taxation of motor traffic-, • for whereas he had advocated. an.annual charge on motor cars before the committee, on June 21. 19.19, he had expressed the opinion that the fairest methode would be a tyre tax levied by the Customs. He was satisfied that Air. Connett s latent suggestion to tax cars would be generally resented as a class tax. He agreed with Air. Connett on the point that it was unfair that a local body levying the maximum rate should receive only the same subsidy as another county levying only a third of the rate. The remedy seem-

ed to him to be in increasing the amount of the subsidy to councils situated as was the Taranaki County, which cartitd an extraordinary amount of through or national traffic, the extra subsidy to come from a tyre tax, or that a special national loan be raised for re-making and. sealing the main roads, the interest and sinking fund pf which could be met by the. tyre tax. "A 25 per cent, levy on tyres, which had been suggested by Mr. Connett and others, would have brought in £150,000 to the Government in 1916, but the imports had since appreciably increased, and it would now probably produce £200,000. There was no ques Taranaki County needed some assistance. The reason why Waimate West was able to carry on without tollgates and on a low rate was because sears ago the men there had recognised the mode of traffic was altering and that they would have to change their system of roadmaking to meet the new conditions. They raised a big loan, and put down good roads, since being able to maintain them on a comparatively low rate. They made the first cost practically the. last. It had been said the Waimate Council were forced to tarseal their roads because of the dearness of metal, but this argument could he turned against Taranaki, because if they could have got metal cheaply they were in a position to expend money on tar-sealing. Taranaki, however, did not recognise the situation in time, and were now faced with the great increases in the cost of materials and labor. The toll-gate question had to be considered from another aspect: During the next few years most of the traffic from the port of New*' Plymouth within a radius of twenty mile’s would be motor borne, and any interference with transport would be against the interests of producers and country ratepayers. They had to realise country and town were interdependent. What injured one injured the other; what was beneficial to a part must be beneficial to the whole. One county could not penalise a neighbor without itself being affected. Toll-gates were no solution at all; they

were only an. expedient, but once established. were hard to get rid of. The Waipuku gate was an instance of this* Permission for erection of the gate had been given in 1914 on the understanding that a tar-sealed road was to be constructed out of the revenue from the gate, and this being aeeomplishe.d thd collection of tolls was to be abolished. Seven years had elapsed, and the road was still only partially tar-sealed, and it was estimated would not be completed jor another two years. If the construe- ■ tion of the road had been undertaken out of loan money the work woUfld hare been done within a year or two. Mr. List concluded by expressing the hope that the Government would realise its responsibility in this matter and bring down an acceptable scheme and afford help where it was needed. Mr. Sharp poinuul out that Waimate West Council woe jn a very good position, as owing to the nature pf tha country its roads were jfrobably th a most inexpensive, to construct of any county.

Mr. List: Yes, but the work the Waimate roads have to carry is three timts more than here, they having no railway there, to lighten the traffic on the roads. CLIFTON’S EXPERIENCE. Air. Pigott gave some information on. the working of the toll-gate in hie county, and he remarked that the erection 1 of the gate had not been viewed favor--1 ably by ratepayers. 'J'he. Clifton I County was probably in a unique position, as it had no railway communication whatever, and Ihe whole of tha area from Waitara through to southern Awakino was served by motor traffic. The council had been divided on tho question .of toll-gates, a good few recognising that it was a cosily and parochial way of getting revenue. The whole ot the community ought to maintain the roads. A good deal had been said about taxing motorists, but he thought th id was really getting back to a levy on the ratepayers. Bo favored classifying counties as regard- the payment of subsidy. His county probably carried the heaviest of any motor traffic on the main road. There were big areas of Maori land in the county from which, no ratea wore collected, and this was one. of the reasons why the toll-gate was erected.

At the conclusion of the evidence, tha chairman thanked the delegates. He said the report of the committee’s investigations would bo made to the en-gineer-in-chief. The committee sits at Stratford today.