PARLIAMENT.

Taranaki Daily News, 2 October 1919, Page 7

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, By Telegraph.—Press Associatioß. Wellington, Last Night. The Legislative Council met at 230. The Speaker gave a ruling on the question of (privilege raised yesterday by Hon. McGregor in regard to the Women's Parliamentary Eights Bill. He supported Mr. McGregor's contention that the part of the Bill proposing to give women the right to sit in tiie Council was an infringement of the Council's privileges, in that it had been originated in the House of Representative > and not in the Council. Hon Hall-Jones asked whether this Would not debar women from ever sitting in the Council. He thought it would be impossible for any member to introduce in the Council a proposal to allow women to sit in that as money (the £2OO honorarium) was involved.

The Speaker replied that he would certainly rule that any such Dill was not a money Bill, and therefore could proceed.

At the request of Sir Francis Bell, the Women's Parliamentary Rights' Bill was transferred to to-morrow'a order paper, to enable him to consider the position. The Public Trust Office Amendment Bill was put through the final stages and passed. The Auckland University College Site Bill was committed, progress was reported, and clause 4 was referred to the Lands Committee fur a report. The Council rose at 3 p.m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2.30. Hon. W. D. S. McDonald gave notice of intention to introduce the Wairo:i Harbor Board Loan and Empowering Bill. REPLIES TO QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr. Hudson, Hon. .T. G. Coates said the mails which came by the Athenic and were destroyed by vermin were from all parts of the United Kingdom. Precautions had been taken to prevent a similar happening on another occasion.

Replying to Mr. Craigie, Sir James Allen said he doubted if it were possible to introduce this session an amendment to the Pensions Act with a view to granting larger pensions to men who were disabled in the war. The rates of pensions for these men were fixed in the schedule of the Act, and could not be improved without the sanction of Parliament. If a pension was not sufficient for these men, they could always apply for an additional pension Replying to Sir Joseph Ward, Sir Jas. Allen said the American authorities had been frequently thanked for their kmdhess to New Zealand soldiers roming through the Panama Canal. The fio.ise would he asked to confirm the thanks. Replying to Mr. Russell, Mr. Massey said the Government were contemplating raising the amount available for workers' homes t* £750. Houses which had not been built by the Government, but which complied with Government specifications, were frequently taken over as workers' dwellings.

BUDGET DEBATE. At 3 o'clock, the debate on the Budget was resumed by Dr. Newman, who said lie was greatly disappointed with the statement. At the same time he did not agree with Sir Joseph Ward, who objected to use the accumulated surpluses, which he thought should be brought out from England. It was evident New Zealand was going to.have a plethora of money during the next few years, with the result tltat we were going to have a gamble in land values. He heard the Minister of Lands had bought land at fSB per acre. He admitted it was rich land, but he could not conceive how soldiers could afford to hold land of such high price. He predicted that we should have two more good years, and then we should have seven lean years, and the people should have been told in the Budget what troubles, were coming. After the Napolenoic war there was intense depression. Though our experience might not be so bad, there was no doubt we were going to have lean years. There was no pessimism about this. It was merely forethought, and unless we were careful during the next two years and conserved our means, we were bound to have trouble. The Budget should have«made this plain. The Budget was also lacking in that it provided no practical means for reducing the high cost of living. The Government should, at least during the coming dairy season, see that sufficient butter and cheese was retained in the Dominion so that prices would not soar to famine rates next winter. He advocated the block system in connection with the distribution of coal, so as to keep down the cost. Cheap boots should also be provided. Considering the high prices prevailing everywhere, he did not wonder at the unrest on the part of the people who had large families, and wki could scarcely stagaer under the cost of living. New Zealand hail great numbers of latent, resources which wer.? remaining undeveloped. Hs pleiderl for a scientific library and scientific experts to teach us how these could be used. He instanced iroiisaud, upon whi-:'. largi' sums of money had been lost in at? tempts to smelt it, because of the want of expert knowledge. Tin also nvmmended a. complete jreolncieal survey it the outlying islands, with n view ;i testing their resources, wiiiih ci.iy jt

lying dormant. The evidence taknn before the Industries Committee had shown that our tariff was full of anomolies, and that we were handicapping our industries. The revision of the tariff was urgent; something should be done this session. The question of social unrest existing should receive more attention at the hands of the Government, and greater notice should have been taken of it in the Budget. The great problem was how to bring up families, and the House should not dissolve without doing something practical to set this problem at rest. He complained that not sufficient energy was being shown in the prosecution of the hydroelectric power works at Mangahao, as the surrounding cities were eagerly waiting for this supplementary power, and unless more money was made available and more energy shown it would only result in great disappointment. In conclusion, he repeated the need for warning the people against prodigality during the next few years, and regretted that more had not been done to quiet the social unrest, instead of merely talking about it.

Mr. McCallum said the Opposition would endeavor to offer an impartial criticism of the Budget, because the times were too 'momentous for mere party strife. On the whole, they recognised the Budget was a fair statement of the financial position, but the Opposition was most decidedly opposed to the proposal to absorb the accumulated surpluses. These surpluses were set aside for the purpose of paying off the war debt, which should be paid off within fifteen years, because we did not know how soon we might be at war with some of our present allies. The Pacific question was always looming ahead, and when war came we should have the means of carrying on that war. The present Minister of Finance was not going to use these funds for the purpose for which they were established, and he felt sure that sooner or later the House would regret that the policy of Sir Joseph Ward had not been carried out, because that policy was one of prudence. He disagreed with the Minister of finance's policy for providing monies for soldiers' gratuities. This money should not come out of loans, but should be obtained out of a special fund, specially created, as was the case of the fund which purchased the battleship "New Zealand." As one way of doing this, he suggested that the money should be taken from every taxpayer whose income was over £15,000 a year. These men should be compelled to show their balance sheets for the years 1914-19, and that fund should be built up from this source. He 'deprecated buying land for soldiers at high prices, and appealed for a sweeping revaluation of lands. If the Premier would give this matter his immediate attention he would do more than anything else to defeat opposition' in the country. He urged more forward public works and immigration policies, which required fresh money, fresh life, and fresh energy put into them. Mr. Witty said that, with the exception of the large amount of money required, there was nothing of a progressive character in the Budget,

Sir James Allen: What about education? Mr. Witty deprecated the idea that the £500,000 provided was anything like sufficient for education requirements. Schools were rotting, and altogether the system was lagging behind for want of financial support. Dealing with the cost of living, he contended that the Government had done nothing to keep it down. The Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donald was flu only one who had tried, by means of the butter-fat tax. He approved of the equalisation fund, and it was scandalous to find that meat was rotting in the stores and that food grown in this country was shipped Home and brought back again. He contended, with regard to imported articles, that the invoices should be examined and a fair rate of profit fixed. He instanced recent purchases of land made by large firms, which he said wa'a probably paid for out of war prices. He condemned the everlasting "swapping" of land, which could only result in excessive prices, and something ought to be (lone to stop aggregation. No one should be allowed to start quarries or coal mines in ont of the way places unless tiiey were prepared to make proper provision for housing the employees. Dealing with the cost of living, he produced two pairs of children's shoes which had just been re-soled at a cost of 6s 6d, and the soles were simply glued on. The Premier: That man is profiteering. Mr. Witty: Yes, but why does not the Government take some steps to stop it? The only people who should be decorated were the women who were bringing up children. He advocated higher death duties on rich estates, and, for that reason, he was disappointed with the Budget, because it showed so little initiative.

Hon. D. Buddo said he found fault with the Budget, not so much for what was in it, but for what was not in it. At the same time, he recognised the difficulty the Minister was faced with in bringing down anything like a comprehensive policy. There was at the present time a greater necessity for tariff reform than anything else. Nothing was beine looked for by the community at large so eagerly as some relief from taxation, hut, to his regret, there was no inference to this in the Budget. The Board of Trade had not impressed the people with its usefulness in its operations jor checking profiteering, and, in his opinion, it hadutterly failed to win public confidence. Soldier settlement* wore next touched upon, the speaker contending there was plenty of land on which to settle soldiers without purchasing high-priced land, and he advocated the acquisition uf u number of large unimproved estate*. Mr. Holland condemned the small provision made in the Budget for education, and defended the State coal mine* against the accusation that they were working at a heavy loss. Ho maintained they were working under groater difficulties than privately owned minns, but, none the less, they were one of the best assets of the Dominion. At th* same time, he combatted. the argument that the State mines should bo used to make huge profits, The main purpose of State Industry should not bo profitmaking. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

- EVENING SESSION, Tho House resumed at 7.30. Mr. Holland, continuing, said no one would say that soldier settlement should be delayed for one moment, because It was desirable to got the soldiers back into civil life as soon as possible. But if the soltlieys were to he pm. on the land, most certainly it should be on land at pre-war prices. The very fact (hat fourteen millions was being used in one year for (his purpose must result in inflation of values, and when the prices of pnimary products fell, as fall they tnii-i, then the soldiers would not be able to stand the storm, Discussing he surplus, he said this explained why he Libera!" were unwilling to critically ' -L-uts the budyf-t. hoidina; that the anlv

Way in which the surplus could be claimed was by drawing a curtain over the war expenditure. If this latter item were included in the year's transactions, then instead of a surplus of over three millions there would be a deficit of IRJ millions. He discussed using the accumulated surpluses, which he favored, and then proceeded to criticise raising loans free of income-tax, which he denounced, contending that the money required for soldiers should be provided by the very rich men, whose riches had been increased by the men for whom the money was required. Mr. Edward Newman said he Tegretted that the leader of the Opposition and his party had not seen their way to remain part of the National Government, not only for the period of the war, but during the settlement of all questions arising out of the war. He thought Sir Joseph Ward would hear that criticism of his conduct from one end of the Dominion to the other. Sir Joseph Ward had criticised the budget as setting out extravagant proposals, but after quoting Sir Joseph Ward'B manifesto he said he doubted if the budget proposals were anything like as extravagant as Sir Joseph Ward's. The speaker approved of the seizure of accumulated surpluses, because he was entirely opposed to the formation .of sinking funds while we were a borrowing country. He recognised that land values were not up-to-date, because the war had stripped the Valuation Department of its staff, but thnt important and responsible work was now going on. At the same time, he differed entirely from the present-day conception of the unimproved value of land, on which taxation was paid. That term iras altogether a misnomer, because it include* a value made by the settler, and as the basis »f taxation it should be dropped. It was better to speak of the "taxable value." One of the most satisfactory features of the war finance was that the rate of interest had never risen. That, he thought, was remarkable in the history of the world. As a remedy for industrial unrest he suggested 'greater publicity of the profits made by commercial men, as if men knew a business man was only getting six or seven per cent, for the money they would not be so clamorous as. if they knew he were making forty or fifty per cent. He also advocated greater sympathy between the employer and employee, and said that at no previous time had there been so great a disposition on the part of employers to approach employees in this spirit as at the present moment. ,

Mr. Wilford, in answering the preceding speaker, said that while that gentleman had called Sir Joseph Ward's manifesto proposals extravagant, he did not tell the House that it was not proposed to carry out all those proposals in one year, for that was the proper way to tell the story. He then proceeded to discuss the question of death duties, contending that the Government might greatly increase the revenue from this source, after raising exemption from £SOO to £IOOO. He instanced* eases where large, sums were left to people outside the Dominion, every penny of the interest going out of New Zealand, but such estates only paid 15 per cent., as did any other estate in which the whole of the capital and interest remained in the country. He claimed that a much heavier toll should be taken by means of the graduated tax, as was now done in England,- from those estates where property went to people outside the Dominion. Had he remained Minister in charge of stamps he would have seen this done, and he had not given up hope. The epportunity would soon come again. If there was one part of Sir Joseph Ward's manifesto more to bo commended than another it was that part wheer he undertook to give effect to this reform. He regretted there was no proposal in the Budget to increase the graduated income tax on incomes above £ 8,500, for this ought to be done. He suggested, as a reasonable concession to the payers, of income tax, that they .should be allowed to do so by instalments, for it was often a great hardship for individuals and firms to find large sums on a fixed date. He gave this as a practical proposal to the Treasurer. He advocated Imperial preference, nationalisation of coal mines, and an energetic policy of constructing hydro-electric power works.

Mr. Downie Stewart said the more he heard of the debate the more he realised, there was only a sham light going on Both the big parties were in favor of a progressive policy, and so the discussion was confined to details of the Budget, and minor points at that. He thought the time had oome for some better aljp»,. ment of parties. It might take, -another olection to do thia, but, at iiny rate, the present portion was most unsatisfactory. He favored State ownership of coal mines and giving the workers a voice in the management of the mines.

After supper the debate was carried on by the Hon. McDonald, who urged energetip roads, railways,, and -hydroelectric schemes, and better housing of men working on the public works "and living in public works camps. He mentioned the Primary Industries Bill, which he had intended to introduce, and asked the-Premier to take it up. The Premier promised that the bulk of it would be in another Bill.

Mr. Mac Donald expressed satisfaction at this promise, as he was indifferent as to how it was done so long as the provisions were made law. He did not expect that legislation passed bv the National Government or proposed by the present Government would bring ahout the millcnium, but he did believe that it would help towards a general uplift of the people; Mr. Vernon Reed advocated the active prosecution of roading and land settlement in the North Auckland district. Hon. G. W. Russell complained there wns practically no mention of the public health of tho people in the Budget. He regarded this as the most important subject the country could consider. I» this connection he advocated State medical service, free and available to all classes. H e favored the policy of .the Budget in using accumulated surpluses, as he thought they would serve a better purpose in assisting production in the Dominion, rather than merely earning interest in London. On the subject of taxation he commented severely on the fact that the death duties had not been increased during tho past four years, and said that it would be a scandal if £HIQ,QOO of taxation, placed on tea, mid which all classes paid alike, was not removed and the loss made up by an' extra charge on the rich estates by means ot death duties. Mr. Anderson moved the adjournment of the debate, and the House rose at J lilO. j