PARLIAMENT.

Taranaki Daily News, 3 September 1919, Page 5

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. By Telegraph.—Press Association. Wellington, Last Night. The Legislative Council met at 2.50. Sir Francis Bell, in moving a motion in respect to the death of General Botha, Premier of South Africa, said he believed that although there might be records in old Roman days to compare with that of Botha, there was not such another record ia present-day civilisation. The motion was duly carried. The Statutes Revision Committee recommended that the Chattels Transfer Amendment Bill, Public Authorities Empowering Bill, and Official Appointments and Documents Bill, should be allowed to proceed without amendment. Sir Francis Bell gave notice of his intention to aßk for leave to introduce to-morrow the Companies Amendment Bill. The Council placed on record its sense of the faithful services rendered to New Zealand by the late Hon. A. L. D. Frascr, Hon. Thomas Thompson, Donald Keid, Hamilton Gilmer, and William Henry Tucker. On the motion of Sir Francis Bell, seconded by the Hon. Sir William HallJones, the Council assented to the ratification toy his Majesty of the treaty of peace with Germany as approved by the plenipotentiaries at the recent Peace Conference. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2.30. NEW SILLS. Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donald gave notioe of his intention to move the Board of Trade Bill. Mr. Veitch gave notice to move the Proportional Representation Bill. Dr. Newman gave notice to introduce the Government Temporary Employees Bill. Mr. Semple gave notice to introduce the Mining Act Amendment and Coal Mines Act Amendment Bill. SESSIONAL COMMITTEES. The Premier suggested that tlie House 'should agree to setting up sessional committees without going through the form of giving notice of the names of those proposed to constitute such committees. There was a great deal of committee work to be done, and he was anxious to get the committees at work as soon as possible. Sir Joseph Ward objected to this course. Ijast year there was a great deal of objection taken to the constitution of the committees, and if this was so under the National Government it wouh l . be even more necessary that the ITonse should know who was 1o be on the committees under party government.

The Premier said that as objection had been taken he wouM not press the point, but the suggestion came from the leader of tho Opposition himself, who last week urged that committees be set up with the least possible delay. QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

Hon. G. W. Russell gave notice of his intention to ask the Government to disclose its intentions regarding the office of High Commissioner, and whether it was intended to appoint a resident Minister in London. Mr. Russell also gave notice of his intention to ask for a return showing how the sum of £430,017 was expended in connection with raising the war loans of 1918-19, and liow they were distributed between the banks, brokers, and Imperial Government. •Replying to Mr. Witty, the Premier said he proposed to take into consideration the question of making tho Rent Restriction Act, passed to meet war conditions. a permanent measure. Replying to Mr. Buddo, Sir James Allen said he was afraid some misapprehension had arisen in connection with the pension of 30s now being granted to returned men. The position was that the Pension Board was granting a pension of 3fls a week to those entitled to the pension without inquiry, so that there would be no delay. If, as the result of subsequent investigation, it was found that the pension should be less than 30s, no refund would be asked for, but if it was found that the pension should be more than 30s then readjustment was made. •

Replying to Mr. Russell, the Prime Minister said it would be impossible to lay before the House all papers relating to the peace treaty, as many of tliem had not yet reached Now Zealand. He thought members would liavc to be satisfied with the statement he proposed to make to the 'House this week. The subject was a tremendous one, and lie proposed to deposit all tho papers in the archives of the Dominion for reference by future generations. Tn reply to Mr. Holland, wlio asked the Minister if lie would cable Home a contradiction of the statement made by Mr. F. M. B. Fisher that he left ft Cabinet ponition in New Zealand to help in the war, Mr. Massey said he did not intend to interfere in the politics of any other country. DAYLIGHT SAVING.

Mr. Sidev, In introducing his Definition of Time Bill, said that at no time during the many years he had been in charge of this Bill waß the necessity for it greater than at tho present moment, when we were suffering such acute shortage of coal, and inptead of the Premier waiting for him to introduce the Bill lie Bhould bring down an Order-in-Council enacting tho principle of the measure, which was now adopted in many European countries. The Act had never had a fair trial in Australia, but had been a great success in Tasmania. The Bill was introduced and read a first time on the voices.

■FIRST READINGS. The following other Bills were introduced and rend a firat time: Registration of Business Names (Mr. Brown); Payment of Jurors (Mr. Wilford); Shops and Offices Amendment (Mr. Holland).

DEFENCE MATTERS. The Minister of 'Defence laid on the table the report of the Defence Department. Replying to Mr. Witty, the Minister Raid there were about forty vacancies 011 tly headquarters staff. These would be filled by the most capable officers returning from flie f |>.nt after such officers had spent some time in a training camp, and the remainder would be gazetted «OBt of the forces.

TREATY RATIFICATION. Mt Maraey moved that this House of of New Zealand in ParI * 7 ' 'assembled resolves that this H- 1 nits to the ratification by his Thrrrespy r i- he treaty of peace with Germany as unproved by the plenipotenti£*&£s tiufcgPßfflt. £MC» H»

proceeded to say that the assembly of the Peace Conference was probably the most important event of its kind in the uiatory of the world. It was easy to criticise the treaty arrived at, but that was no part of his duty. There were some points amongst many raised by great issues on which he had his own opinion, and to these he would refer Discussing the mandate over the Island of Nauru, Air. Massey explained the difficulty which arose between Mr. Hughes and himself as to the respective shares in the mandate, and the linal arbitration of Lord Milner, who determined the matter- on the lines suggested by him (Mr. Massey). He concluded by quoting l'rcely from reports showing the enormous wealth of the island.

Later lie asked the House to consider the difficult problems raised and the enormous task the Conference had to undertake in finding an equitable settlement of these problems—problems such as whether the Germans should be left with an army or navy, and, if so, how strong those forces should be. lie believed the imposts put upon Germany by the treaty were.not greater than she could bear, nor had he great faith in the regeneration of the German spirit. -He referred to the systematic manner in Which she set about the destruction of French industries, which had the effect of placing Germany in a better position from the point of view of a manufacturing country than her rivals. He did not regard the Germans as specially clever people, but, for some reason as yet unexplained, they were able to do some things better than we could. He referred to the dye industry for instance, but he had every hope that the British people would ere long be 1, a position to successfully compete with the Germans on their own ground. The manner in which the business of the Peace Conference was conducted was fur from satisfactory, owing largely to the language difficulty. Finally a system of commissions was adopted. These commissions did the work and then reported to the great Council of Five. Mistakes, of course, were made, but he was convinced that the great mistake was that peace was not dictated on German soil immediately after the armistice. The length of time that elapsed after the armistice gave Germany ground for hope that the longer peace was delayed the better the terms they could make. They accordingly adopted a "go slow" policy, in the hope that the wave of Bolshevism [sweeping over Europe would cause dissension among the Allies to their profit. However, they at last made up their minds to sign, and he made up hia, mind that he would also sign as the representative of New Zealand, and tlya he at least was able to do.

,German power to some extent had been broken, but he did not believe that war was at an end. While they were sitting in Paris at the Peace Conference there were twenty-two small wars going on in various parts of the world, because there were many people who only understood the argument of force, and who could only be kept within their own borders by force. The statements recently made by Lord Jellicoe in the Dominion were a grave warning and worthy of serious consideration by the people of New Zealand.

Ho favored the idea of the League of Nations, but he did not believe it would put an end to war, and we must keep up our armies and navy, especially the latter, without which the war could not have been won, which included, of course, the mercantile marine. He said this' after paying due regard to the assistance rendered by America, France, and Japan. Our existence as a nation depended on the navy, which must be maintained at proper strength. What that strength was was for experts to say, and he did not pretend to be an expert. The League of Nations was not a complete protection against war, but it must be remembered that it was only in its infancy. If he thought Germany was sroing to settle down to be a respectable nation he might be disposed to sfty: "Go and sin no more," but. he was afraid tl/ro were other nations only waiting to repeat the conduct of the Germans in the hope that they would be more successful. It was therefore necessary to do something to discourage such outrages, and it was therefore necessary to punish Germany severely, Mr. Massey then proceeded to review at large the work of the various commissions, dealing especially with one with which he was connected—that of dealing with the crimes committed during the war. He considered it was proved beyond all doubt that Germany was responsible for the war, but when they eame to deal with the heads of States it was found that many of the delegates held the view that heads of States could not be made responsible to a criminal court. It was a strange doctrine to him, but, finally, an international court was agreed upon to try certain people for certain offences. The case of tlio Kaiser Was different. They had to be guided b$ the opinion of tho great international Powers who were present at the conference, and it appeared from these opinions that he could not be tried for a criminal offence, but would bo tried for a breach of the moral law of nations, for which, if guilty, he could not be sub jected to capital punishment, though, strange to say, some of the officers who carried out'his orders could be.

The work of the Peace Conference would go on for many months yet, because the Austrian and other treaties were not yet completed. He referred to the step; he took to secure in the Turkish treaty the care of the graves on Gallipoli of New Zealand soldiers. He believed that Palestine would remain under tho British Empire, but while the Sultan of Turkey would probably remain at Constantinople ho would be shorn of most of his power and territory. The mandates over the Pacifio Islands were next explained on the lines already published. 'So far as -Samoa is concerned it came under New Zealand. Its revenue was sound, and though improvements would have ,to be made at the harbor of Apia to copo with the increasing trade, the cost of that work would be a charge on Samoa, not on New Zealand. There was no question of fortifying Samoa, but he was satisfied it weuid be a great measure of safety to both Australia and New Zealand that they had secured the control of those islands so .adjacent to their shores.

Sir Joseph Ward said that before the war very few people realised what a stupendous task the delegates at the Peace Conference had before them in indeavoring to settle peace terms satisfactory to all parties. The bulk of that great task fell upon the representatives of the five Great Powers, aided by the best lawyers, civil servants, and international experts that the world could produce. There were 32 countries represented at the Conference, and his personal opinion was that the greatest work done at the Conference was the establishment of tho League of Nations, which, in time, would become the guide and controller of the Great Nations and lead them in the path of peace. He outlined the purposes of the League, but declared he thought it could never properly fulfil its functions, until Germany and Russia were admitted as {members. This, he thought, would be throw-■wfchitt tyyt

years. The limitation of armaments provided for in the constitution of the League did not apply to the Navy. We were essentially a maritime people, and he asserted that we could not submit to any control over the British Navy except thit of the British Government and the Governments of the British Dominions, livery maritime nation was recognising the need for additional naval power, and we must not neglect the precautions which America, Japan, and other great countries were taking. Coming to the Peace Treaty itself, he said it affirmed many points of world-wide importance, for instance, there were to be no fortifications on the banks of the Rhine, anrl there were to be no preferential railway tarifls which would either help Germany or cripple her opponents in trade. The restoration of Alsace-Lorraine was also a great achievement, as was the securing of the independence of Austria and many small nations, which cut off so much of the fighting force whicli Germany endeavored to utiliso for her own ends. Heligoland, that great German fortress which was such a menace to the British Navy, was to be destroyed by German labor.

That was surely something for which the Treaty was worth while. Regarding the mandate over Samoa, he had some doubts, and he was not prepared to say that New Zealand ought to have that mandate. Ho believed it would have been better if Britain had that mandate, but it was our duty to affirm the Treaty with the mandate in it and wait for time to show whether the opinion he had just expressed was right. The Labor covenant in the Treaty was a fine effort, for which Mr. Barnes should be thanked, but the weak point of the Labor Charter was that America and Japan held back from accepting it, and until it had a world-wide, application he thought it would never be so effective as it should be. Regarding the financial side of the Treaty, he thought the only safe courße for us was not to count on getting anything. We might get the ten millions mentioned by the Premier, but we certainly would not get anything for ten years. At the end of that time he anticipated that circumstances may be so changed that it would not be possible to make the necessary demands upon .Germany. The amount that' Germany had made up for France and Belgium was so great that he saw no prospect of her being able to meet the claims made by us. "Another great advantage of the Treaty was that it cancelled all secret treaties between the nations and cleared the atmosphere of secret diplomacy. Germany could no longer differentiate against imports from other countries, and the Kiel Canal was to be free to all ships. These things were but the fringe of many points in the Treaty, and it was a great thing that the House should have the opportunity of ratifying this Treaty which took Samoa from Germany, a step which he urged upon the Colonial Secretary nineteen years ago. Mr. Holland said he proposed to give reasons why the Laboj members of the House could not fall in with the view that the treaty should be unanimously ratified. He complained of the manner in which the Howe was being asked to ratify a treaty which it had never seen, and about which they had to rely entirely on the statements of the' two gentlemen who went from this country, statements which could not bo wholly accepted. He briefly discussed Nauru, which, he said, overshadowed the whole of the Premier's speech. He favored the mandatory system, but thought that Samoa should not have been placed under the control of New Zealand, but under the League of Nations, which was much more likely to treat the native race with justice. He then proceeded to analyse at length the basic causes of the war for the purpose of showing that no one man* was responsible for the great war, which was almost entirely due to capitalistic influences. The League of Nations as constituted was most unjust, being dominated by five great military Powers, and if Germany and Russia eame in later they would have to take a position equal to Siam or Peru. The people had said: "Never again will we trade with Germans, the men who killed our sons," but the treaty was a traders' treaty, as was clearly shown by Sir Joseph Ward's speech. So far from boycotting German trade, we were compeiling Germany to trade with us. Did anyone .pretend that the Shantung settlement, under which that great maritime province was liandgd to Japan, was just to China and no one else? Should that territory have been given? He thought it a good thing that conscription, should be abolished in Germany and the German navy. It would be a better thing if conscription went out all over the world and there were no longer navies anywhere. He did not believe the financial conditions of the treaty were possible. but, if they were, the indemnities received would be more disastrous to those who received them than to the Germans, because the whole financial proposals were economically unsound. It was most unjust to punish the German people for the crimes of the military class, who never enjoyed the franchise, and whose ruling class was officially welcomed by the British public and the British press. He had no hope that the peace treaty would bring peace. Mr. P. Eraser declared that no one now pretended that the great war was a war to.end war. Mr. Lloyd George had declared that the Allies were not against the German people or the Turkish nation, but by the secret treaties made after the war started it was shown that the Allies were prepared to carve up the map of Europe in such a way as to give no guarantee of security to the small nations. He quoted the opinions of editors and others to Bhow that the terms of the treaty would defeat their own ends, because it was the most comprehensive document of punishment ever placed on record. The principle of self-determination was violated in every direction by the treaty, and the only solution of the problems was that promised by organised labor, which went out for no acquisition of territory. Mr. Edward Newman said that until he heard the speeches of the Labor members to-night he never heard anyone express dissatisfaction at the work done by Mr. Massey and Sir Joseph Ward at the Peace Conference. He therefore thought those members quite out of touch with the opinions of the people of this country.' He thought it bettor if Samoa had been placed under the control of Britain, but warmly approved of the League of Nations. Mr, Wilford declared that had the League of Nations been in existence on August 4, 1914, the great war could not have happened, because before Austria attacked Serbia, Serbia could have applied to the great allied tribunal. That was the solution of great international problems, and the contention that this solution would come through organised labor or organised socialism was "tripe." At 11.13 the Speaker put the question, and the motion was carried on the voices. The House rose at 11.15 till 2.30 tomorrow.