THE DEFENCE BILL.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume LII, Issue 264, 15 December 1909, Page 3

THE DEFENCE BILL.

i ITS PROVISIONS DEBATED. ' By Telegraph.—Press Association. Wellington, December 14. The Premier, in reply to Messrs. Allen, Malcolm and Hogg, said he was in douut whether the clause prohibiting canteens ■was the wiser course. The matter was a difficult one, and experience alune could decide the future course of action.

In regard to Mr. Malcolm's suggestion that liquor be prohibited in camps, tual 'would be left to the discretion of otlieera.as provided in the Bill. He admitted that compulsion was disliked by most people, but circumstances called for the element of compulsion in the {Defence measure and sentimental considerations had to be abandoned if we desired to do our share in the defence of the Empire. He could not agree to •Mr. Fisher's proposal that the liill be Jjeld over till next session. The sooner the defence system was reorganised u. better. He uad never advocated conscription, the initial cost of which would •te »£l,u»0,000. Referring to military camps, he said it was proposed to have one in each island, close by the iiain Trunk line, where men could receive proper training under competent officers. (The Bill was the solution of a difficult problem, and would have the goodwill of the people. The work done by his former colleague, Mr. K. McNao, in awakening interest in the defence quesition, waa very valuable indeed. The Dill passed its second reading. The House thereafter went into committee to consider the Bill, and immediately adjourned. The House rose at 2.5 a.m. Wellington, Last Night. In the House of .Representatives uis evening, the Defence Bill was committed. / ~. _:.JJ*:.jM On clause 4, replying to Mr. Allen, the Premier said the regulation regarding pay and clothing were not included in the Act. He could give no further information than that it was proposed to give territorials its a day and rations while in camp, and that no uniforms would be provided for cadets. These matters would be dealt with by the tegulatioM. - Mr. Massey moved to add a sub-clause to clause i giving power to the Go-

vernor to make regulations as follows: "That such regulations shall be laid tiefore Parliament within 14 days aftsr being gazetted, if Parliament is then sitting, and if not then within 14 days of the meeting thereof." ■ Mr. Allen supported the amendment, but thought all. regulations should he .submitted to the committee of the .Home. <i*,i»rii Mr. Taylor strongly protested against Jhe creation of a military force over the civil authority, and supported the amendment, on the ground that Parliament should have the right to amend the regulations before they were gazetted. .

Sir Joseph Ward said the Bill was based on the lines of the present Defence Act, and no trouble had arisen in regard to the regulations, and there had sever been any reason for putting these iefore the House.

Mr. Allen said nearly everything was being done by regulation. He considered the House should have an opportunity to review the regulations so that provision could be made for supplying cadets with uniforms which were necessary in order lo maintain discipline. .After farther discussion, the amendment was put and lost by 42 to 31, and the clause passed. On clause 6, providing for the appointment of officers of the defence forces, Mr. Malcolm moved to add the words, "sußject to the proviso that every company in the territorial forces may elect all company officers thereof." The amendment was defeated by 50 .votes to 9.

Clause 12, which sets up a council of defence, was" objected to by Mr. Allen, Who moved to omit sub-clause 6, which provides for the appointment of a finance member of the council.

This was negatived on the voices, and the clause passed. Clause 14, prescribing the duties cf commandant, was struck out on the motion of oir Joseph Ward.

THE "PEACE AT ANY PRICE" PARTY. DEPUTATION TO THE PREMIEP.. COOLLY RECEIVED. TOLD SOME HOME TRUTHS. Wellington, Last Night. A deputation from the Trades ami Labor Council and others waited on the Prime Minister to-day objecting to sons features of the Defence Bill. Mr. D. McLaren, M.P., said they caifsidered the proposals trenched tjsb far on the liberties of the people, Mr. P. J. O'Regan opposed' the Bill, chiefly on account of the expense it involved. He believed there was no fear of invasion. Others urged the promotion of arbitration in place of militarism. Another point was that by adopting compulsory training New ZeaJaijd would lose immigrants now leaving the Continental countries because 'of the compulsory sys. tern in force there. In replying, Sir Joseph Ward said that the deputation either had been mljsled as to what was proposed in the BJH or they did not understand it. No one could'imagine for a moment that the Bill proposed to follow the German system. It was idiotic to imagine anything of the sort.'We were not mad in New Zealand, and he was surprised that anyone could get such an idea rf the proposals. The Bill provided as far as volunteering for service beyond the seas was concerned, only what had-been in law for years: They had a duty to perform which they could not shirk, and jf they carried out the "do nothing" policy suggested they would very soon find tome country besides Great Britain ruling New Zealand. Clause 22 of the Bill, fie aided, distinctly stated that no part of the territorial force should be liab'e to serve outside New Zealand. As to compulsion, he remarked that there had for years been compulsion in the scho.ils In regard to military training, and no father or mother, so for as he knew, tuA taken exception to it. He had no fear of invasion, Tie said, but they had to remember that if the Old Country were beaten in a war, the victors might easily feel inclined to talce New Zealand as part of their possessions, and for that reason in duty to their wives and children t'- ■ T >'' *o ensure the supply of a reasc -trained force ready for use in *u I: .-mergency. The proposals contained in the Bill had been before the country ever since the Budget was published, and from all parts of the country and from all sections of the public, he had received communications congratulating the Government on its proposals. He had taken a very special interest in volunteering for many years, and had come to the conclusion that it had failed. Mr. A. W. Hogg, M.P.: It has been starved to death. Sir Joseph Ward: As a matter of fact, there has been a great deal of money spent In volunteering. They did not aik the men to undergo the training for nothing. They would be paid direct. What they wanted to aim at In New Zealand without going in for a system of universal compulsory training was a moderate system by which they wou'd ensure that whatever they had in the shape of defence should be effic-lojit. He did not want a system of militarism to grow up in New Zealand, and they would find that under the system proposed by the Bill that could not arise. Australia and other countries were going in for similar systems on a more extended scale. It really did seem to h'm that the deputation did not understand r.V- was proposed by the Bill. The vorkers would be the sufferers by any attack on New Zealand, and the Bill •.-'« as much in the interests of the v orkers as of any other class of the - :mmraity. It was far better to spend £IOO,OOO a year extra in preventing - - r breaking out than to spend half a , i 'llion or.a. million;* year, afterwards, '- to be annexed.bvi any other country. As to arbitration, that would, be one of the finest things they could possibly attain, but unfortunately. Jt,was not possible under existing conditions.

I THE CANTEEN- QUESTION. ! Cbrhtchurch, Last NWht. ' The question of canteens at Government trainra)? camps was, briefly discussed at the Chri'tchurrh Presbyterv

to-day. The Rev. John Mackenzie noted ■with pleasure that the clause providing for canteens had hera struck out of the Bill in committee, hut he said there w:><s BO guarantee tint it would not be eventually re-inserted. He moved: "Th.it in view of the fact that the mijoritv -jf those in training fnmw nm'er Ihc proposed defence nrono=!>'* will lie iinil«r the ase of 21 wars, this P-»=bvterv re cords its sfromr nrotest fiorninst nnv s I tempt to establish in «ih+ cnmn« military canteens tor fho snl» nf intoxi-i--lntf' Honor. Th<- Priub'-Wv notes wi'h Mtlsfaction that the "ommiHcp of tV House hn« made n rnnommendation !o strike out of Hie Bill the Ha use authorIsm* the cstMilUW-it of canteens a-d iirffes Pnrllircen* to accent, the committ*«'« ferried without dissent.

jl&ijjirtl";, thrown down caused 694 Lo*