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Taranaki Daily News, Volume LII, Issue 101, 26 May 1909, Page 4

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o AGITATION AND CONCILIATION. THESLAuGHTER-vicM i DISPUTE. The Conciliation Council of the Northera and Taranaki District opened its session at the Couuliuusu yesterday morning. Mr. T. Harle Giles, Concilia- j tion Commissioner, presided. Owing to ] the fact that the court-room proper was required lor the purposes of the usual weekly sitting of the S.M. court, the Conciliation' Council was allotted the jury room.. Before proceeding o business, Mr. Pryor said those tak ..g part had had a discussion with to the meeting-place, and in theii opinion the '..room was totally inadequate lor the purposes for which they. Wire met. For instance, Mr. Bust, Mr: Grosvenor, -and himself had a large number of papers, and they would perhaps like somelone v sitting alongside them whilst the evidence was being iaken. He suggested a short adjournment should t>: takeniso that, some more suitable place could De .obtained. He understood A Mayo?'was in a position to make an offer. The Conciliation Council snould be treated with more consideration. That room was not in keeping with the dignity of the : proceedings, and they could not conduct their business in what he might 'term a corner like that. The Commissioner (Mr. T. Harle Giles) agreed with Mr. Pryor. At the same time lie desired to relieve the authorities in connection with the courthouse of anv responsibility. They had done the best they could under the circumstances; in fact, had given the onlj room available. There was no (lis courtesy intended to the Conciliatioi Council. He would be pleased to fal

in with any arrangement for a more suitable room. The Council then adjourned to the Town Hall, where his Worship the Mayor placed the Council Chambers at its • disposal. The Court sat to consider a dispute between the Auckland Slaughtermen's Industrial Union of Workers (Waitara . branch) on the one hand, and the New Plymouth, Hawera, and Stratford Borough . Abattoirs, the Patea Meat Freezing Company and the Waitara Freezing Works on the other. The assessors actrag- on behalf of the union were Messrs. Alfred White (Grey Lynn, Auckland), Peter Miller (City Abattoirs, OtaJiuhu), and Daniel Ryan (Auckland), while Messrs. F. L\ J. liellrniger (New Plymouth Borough Council), Thompson (Patea Freezing Company), and Croll (Wajtara Freezing Company). were the assessors for the employers. Mr. F. K. Bust, of Auckland, appeared for the union of employees, and Messrs. C. Grosvenor (freezing companies) and W. Pryor (abattoirs) appeared for the employers. The Commissioner stated that trie usual course was for the applicants to open their case first, but before callrlg upon Mr. Bust, as secretary of the union which filed the dispute, to do so, re - would suggest that they should not proceed in council, but that those interested as parties'.to the dispute should confer. and thrash out the whole matter in a calm and reasonable way. If the union was prepared.to consider the suggestion he'would be glad if they would confer with Mr. Grosvenor, the freezing works representative, and Mr. Pryor, representing the abattoirs, with a view of arranging such a i conference. If the suggestion were adopted he would be prepared to adjourn the Conciliation Council sine di c pending the result. If ao amicable arrangement were arrived at, then the agreement could be ratified by the Conciliation Council and passed >n to the Arbitration Court to be confirmed as' an award. • Mr. Pryor said that before going into that matter he wished to make an application to have the New Plymouth, Hawera, and Stratford Borough Councils struck off the list of parties cited, on the grounds'(a) that no dispute existed between the Councils and their employees, (b) as far as the Hawera and Stratford Councils were concerhcd'thcy were not employers in connection with this dispute under the Act, for their slaughtering was done by contract, and if anyone should have been cited it should .have been the contractors and not the Councils. The Commissioner had power to grant this request, under section 38 of the amending Act. •Mr. Bust said that the employees had come here determined to conciliate, and if a deadlock occurred it would have to come from the other side. He questioned the right, however, of the Commissioner to out of Court, as' requested by Mr. Pryor. Mr. Pryor said, the Commissioner had power .to* conduct the enquiry under the Justice' of the Peace Act, under which, of course, the Commissioner could order witnesses out of the Court at will. The point was then conceded, and Messrs. Mack, Francis Coombes. Frost. G. Tiseh,o. W. Sole, T. Keakes, Elliott, ' E. F. Hemingway, Yearbury, and Brown then left the Court. Thomas Mack, in the employ of the New Plymouth Borough Council as head 'slaughterman at the abattoirs, and doing general work besides, said he was n ■ . member of the union, and had been sub- j pocnaed by the Borough Council. Had w ,had a conversation with Mr. Pryor on Sunday, when he said he was working , under very comfortable conditions and desired that they should continue, if the Council would recognise the union. Had accepted the assurance that the Council fully recognised the union. To Mr. Bust: Bemembered writing to Mr. Bust on 24th June, 1008, asking him to come here and endeavor to place the New Plymouth abattoirs and the Waitara freezing works under the Auckland award. Was chairman' of the Xetw Plymouth and Waitara branch of the union, and was aware that the branch hid passed resolutions asking that the New Plymouth Borough Council should lie

cited for an attachment to the Auckland .; industrial district award. Knew that the Council had been cited accordingly, and that on 14th July, 1908, Mr. Bust conferred with the Council. He was' aware that on several occasions the Council had deferred eorurag to a decision on the matter. In December last they came to an agreement with the Council. Thought he and the other employees were getting a "very fair screw." By recognising the union he meant that the Borough Council should reeognise, the union rules and award. He was aware that.the abattoir hands were not in the same position as at Waitara, as they, could not strike. To Mr. Pry'nr: By that he meant that a strike would leave the town without a meat supply, and there was' nothing to Warrant such extreme nivasur.es. The . difficulty and grievance at the local abattoirs nrose out of the "boning" ''or export, the Council employing several laborers and the butchers making 110-

thill" out of thorn. He was not anxious to come under an award which would result in a lowering of his wages, but lie wanted the union award recognised. Mr. Pryor. Yea, but .vou eun't have the eake and eat it, too. Mr Prvor showed that the union award would have the effect of reducing witness' wages. The witness had not worked out the.-e. li"iues, but lie would rather accept, the lower rate than forsake the union. 11l coming to an agreement with the Council he believed that he had acted in the best interests of himself and his mates. To the Commissioner: He wa6 perfectly satisfied with the conditions under which he was working now. Neither personally nor as chairman of the local branch oi the union had he any dispute before this Council. (George Francis, another employee at the abattoirs', said he was satisfied with the present conditions at the abattoirs, and was satisfied that they should continue on the lines of the agreement drawn up between the Council and he abattoir employees. To Mr. Bust: He was not aware that that agreement could not be operative unless ratified by the executive of the Auckland brancfi. He was prepared to give his whole allegiance to the union, abide by its award, and work only on an award or an agreement accepted by the executive of the union.

To Mr. Pryor: lie didn't know tt]e terms of the demand. He was not prepared to accept lower wages at the behest of the union. By the Commissioner: Are you prepared to accept the union wage's? Witness: We've got to, or leave the union.

The Commissioner said that it was quite clear that these witnesses were anxious to be loyal to their union, even though it hit them hard. Unless it could be shown that they objected to the action taken by their union, then this application was a waste of time. Mr. Pryor said he wished to prove that the dispute had been settled on loth February. These men couldn't have the present splendid conditions and have the award rates too. The employees were in a delicate position, and he admired them for their loyalty to their union. William Coombes, "another New Plymouth municipal abattoir employee, also stated that he wished present conditions to continue.

To the Commissioner: He knew ot no dispute, and as far as he knew was not a party to any dispute brought by the Auckland executive.

Air. Biwt to witness: Do you understand what a dispute is? Witness: Yes, a dispute means that - man is not satisfied with his work. Mr. Pryor: That'». jt. . Mr. Bust: That's not a dispute as we uudersta-ad it. In reply to further cross-examination, the witness said he knew little or nothing abont unions, but was satisfied, to abide by the union's actions in bettering the conditions of its members. To Mr. Pryor: If the union took a course oi action which involved a reduction of his wages he would stand by the union. He had had nothing to do with framing the demands, and had seen them lor the first time on the previous evening. He was aware that under the existing Auckland award his wages' would be reduced, and if hj« found that his £3 weekly wage was to be reduced to 30s he would accept it, as a member of the Union, until he could see something better. He quite understood that the union was satisfied with the agreement, Mr. Frost, the secretary, having wired frbm Waitara to that effect. Edward John Frost, secretary of the Waitara branch of the Auckland Slaughtermen's Union, gave evidence of the conference between the abattoirs employe- s and the Council. He produced a copy of a letter written by him to the Auckland executive after the conference, stating, inter alia, "The men at the New Plymouth abattoirs are pcrfectly satisficd. They are getting good wages now, £3 a week and short days, two of them. Mack gets £3 10s a week and house-rent free. The Council is willing to aibide by the union in respect oi hours, and the men don't wish to be

cited, as they arc in good employment aad get above union wages." He admitted having scut a telegram to the Mayor of New Plymouth stating that the dispute had been settled. To Mr. Bust: He received from .the union a letter stating that the union would not approve of the agreement. Mr. Bust: And weren't you chastised for holding stich a conference without the consent of the head executive? The answer was lost in "audible smile*."

To the Commissioner: The men in the abattoirs were not perfectly satisfied when the eases were cited-. The agreement entered into was valueless except it was ratified by the union executive. The conditions in the New Plymouth abattoirs were probably better now than in February last; at any rate, they were no wors'e. It was only because the Auckland union objected'that there was any citation at all.

•Thomas Mack, recalled, stated that in April last he and the other Xew Plymouth abattoir employees wrote and signed' a letter stating their satisfaction with conditions then obtaining. Was not asked by any councillor or member of the Abattoirs Committee to write the letter. He had told Mr. Reakes, the manager at the abattoirs, that thev were satisfied, and licakes suggested that that should be put in writing. "We have no dispute at all, but we have to obey the union."

The Commissioner said it was clear that the very men who were supposed to have raised the dispute averred there was no dispute. He could not understand why the union should force on these members conditions that were detrimental to them and which tit -v didn't want.

Gustav Tiseh, Mavor of Xew Plymouth, .stated that 'as Mayor he hid presided at the conference referred ■•>

previously in evidence. Kadi employee present rose in lu's seat separately and stated that there was no dispute and that he was willing to carry on und-r present conditions. Mr. Frost said that a» the men were willing to carry on and the Council were satisfied "we don't want to breed discord or discontent. I will send you a letter s'aying we recognise there is no dispute." No letter came, but about a fortnight later a telegram came to the effect, "Dispute settled."

Oliver William Sole, master butchers' representative on the Abattoir Committee, gave corroborative evidence adding that Mr. Frost said he had expected to find a dispute, but there was none, and he advised the employees to go on as they were going. In a long cross-examination about correspondence which passed on th« matter Mr. Sole said Mr. Hint was overlook. mg one letter that he wrote to the v ouncil, wßich letter the Council deemed so discourteous in tone that it refused to reply. Mr. Bust said he didn't need to refer to that letter.

Mr. Sole said that the Council had dealt with the men, ami there was no dispute save that which was bciii« worked up by Mr. Bust and his tive, not bv the Council's employees Thomas' .James Reakes, manager and (iovermnent inspector at the New Plymouth abattoirs, gave corroborative evidence as to the conference 1 Mr Bust admitted all that, and the result of the conference, but would not admit that there was no dispute. Mr. Reakes said, in answer' fo Mr I ryoi; that there was no dispute as far a- the men were concerned, and the nullone was a ,ij s , iut( . manufactured ,'n Auckland. Harry Sinclair Elliott, town clerk at Hawera. said there were municipal abai-lo.rslhere.andthework,t-aSdoi.ebyr. contractor, who employed his own labor Only one youth was' employed, and he had been told by that youth that there was no dispute. William Yearburv, employed at th" Hawera abattoirs by Nf v . Bnruili said he _ was (he only employee, n,. „■„„- satisfied with the conditions under which he was working, and did not desire to come under anv industrial award To Mr. Bust: He was nineteen rears | old. and had been working th,.,-. - , i fortnight, and was getting 2.'>- „ ■,,■,« and found. He did the vardiu-r-up helped in the killing, and' helped ;n dressing the meat. He couldn't do tint work by himself.

To Mr. Pryor: His "keep" comprised his board and lodging and washing. Edward Frederick Henrv Hembi"wac town clerk of the borough of Stralfor.l' said tl*t the Borough Council mvn-d abattoirs and let the work by contract, the contractor finding nil labor The

contractor employed one man who said he didn't belong to and didn't wish to belong to a union, or to come under an award.

To Mr. Bust:„Frauk Copestake was tlie contractor, lie could not divulge the. contract price. His Council was not ail employer. Upon resuming after the luncheon adjournment, *■

Mr. Bust addressed the Court upon the merits of the application. A dispute had been pending, and a dispute had been filed, he said, in accordance with law. He claimed that if the Court ruled that the parties were not rigntly before the Court then he had the right to apply later to have them cited, and to apply to have them attached to Inc. award. He would quote from the Act of 11)05

. Mr Pryor objected, "Holding that tne Consolidated Act of 1005 JiaU been re pealed by the Consolidated Act of 1008, or the Amending Act of 1008. It was • no use "fooling between the two." i Mr. Bust, proceeding, said the members of the Union in this district were being reluctantly compelled to commit breaches of the industrial award aud agreement. Mr Pryor said there was no such thing in existence. The Commissioner said that he was able to gauge the value of the remark -,- and would do so. Mr. Bust said great stress had been laid on the fact that the New Plymouth abattoir employees were satisfied wit i their lot, conditionally. He traced fthistory of the case from the application of the men themselves to be attached to the Auckland district up to the present time. The executive was the vi:tim of misplaced confidence, for the men had made an agreement, which was absolutely illegal for them to do. As for the plea that two abattoirs worked u ider contract, Section 00 held that all contracts were subject to alteration by the making of an award or industrial agreement, and might be nullified b;the granting of the latter. They were waste paper. In his opinion the other side had produced nothing to show t.iat the parties cited were not properly before the Court. Mr. Pryor, in the course of his reply, commented on the fact that the employers had had to subpoena the

employees, who came along reluctantly, -having the fear of the Union over Hi m. He quoted from section 8, sub-section (b), which stated that every registered branch of an existing Union "shall" be considered as a distinct union. If th.<t meant anything at all it meant that that branch must exercise all the functions of the Union, and the Auckla-id Union had no standing here. In view of the arrangement made by the Waitara bra-ich with the New' Plymouth Borough Council in the presence of the secretary, confirmed by the branch meeting itself, and in the letters from the branch, it was not necessary to say anything further in support of the'claim. He admitted that there had been trouble between the New Plymouth Uoimigh Council and the employees, but an agreement was arrived at between them on February 3rd, and now both employer j and employees were satisfied. If Lie Commissioner did not strike out the New i Plymouth Borough Council, then the' I Commissioner put himself in the posii tion of creating a dispute wnen otaer- . •wise none existed. Passing on to th" . Stratford and Hawera Borough Councils, i it was clear that the contractors should , have been cited. Clause 09 was being [ wrongly interpreted by Mr. Burt. It referred; clearly to contract betweei i master and servant, not between prin ■ c-ipals in a contract, such as in this cas». . Briefly, an award or industrial agreei ment was held to over-ride any contract

of service or apprenticeship, 'me vj,-,-tractors for slaughtering at Stratford and Hawera abattoirs were employers, and should, if anyone, have been citid.

Traversing the evidence, the Court hid the sworn testimony of the employees themselves that they were satisfied 'and

the poor fellows, iii fear of the Union.

had told the Court that they were bound to accept the wages that tin. Union wanted them to accept, even if it reduced them from £3 to 30s a week. But, they had not wished to be cited in a dispute. The employees at Nev Plymouth would be detrimentally affected by the Auckland award coming ir*» force here. It was clear that the eo :- ditiona at the New Plymouth abattoirs were better than existed at anv abattoir ■in New Zealand, and without'the intervention of an arbitration court or conciliation board, and the men were perfectly satisfied. They didn't want anv interference. "Vet the Auckland Union officials or executive of the Union take this high stand, hold the pislol to their heads, and say. 'you must have a dispute.'" And they manufactured one. engineered one in' Auckland. This dispute was engineered in Auckland—if not, Mr Burt would have brought evidence to show that it was not eugin •- ed there. It was engineered by Auckland malcontents; i»- those who don't desire to see industrial peace, but who come down here and stir up all this strife. It is the most scandalous state of affairs that I have ever come aerosin' my twelve years' experience of Arbitration Court- work, and as the representative of the employers and a con'sidcrable section of the'public of New Zealand, and as one who does desire to see the. very best possible condition of things prevailing 1 feel compelled to express my sentiments thus strongly against such a terrible state of affairs.'

The Commissioner said that this matter presented to him no extraordinary complications. It was siitiplc. Jt could be diyided into two purls, one dealing with the New Ply-mouth Borough Council as an employer, and the other Willi the Hawera am! Stratford Borough Councils, which were having their slaughtering work done by "contract. As far as New Plymouth was concerned he had formed an opinion from the evidence which convinced and satisfied him that there was no dispute existing at all. The unfortunate part of the business was that the Waitara branch should have relegated the whole business to the Auckland branch. He did not think that the Auckland branch had had any desire at the outset to create a dispute. He believed that the branch

here asked them Ui do certain thins*, and they did it believing that they wert acting in the best interests of the' work-

ers. But the branch afterwards found it possible to make better terms than through the Auckland branch, ami thesterms seemed eminently satisfactory to all concerned. He would at once strike out the New Plymouth Borough Council. Coming to the Hawera and Stratford Councils, he imwt say that his interpretation of clause (ill was not similar to .Mr. Bust's; but it had to do only with

Ipcrsoual scrvico between mantel- and man. When! contracts existed outside the relations of master and man they were not affected by awards or agreements, lie believed' that there was no

dispute existing in reference to the Hawera and Stratford abattoirs, and that the conditions were satisfactory to the workers, and as Commissioner he could

(lot disturb the conditions now existing. The freezing works dispute had then to be disposed of. The Commissioner suggested a conference of the parties, and adjourned the Court to allow of Messrs Bust and Urosvenor conferring on the matter.

A conference was decided on, and will take place at Waitara to-day, com-

mencing at II a.m. Messrs (Iro'syenor. Thompson (Pa tea), Croll (Waitara), and l-'innerly will represent the freezing works companies, and Messrs Bust. Miller, and two Waitara representatives the employees. By request of the parlies, the Commissioner will preside. CO.MPI.IMKNTS. Mr. I-]. .1. I'Yosi. secretary of the local riranc.li of Slaughtermen VTiiion, move I. and Mr. l'rvor seconded, a hearty vote oi' thanks t „ ||„. Commissioner' for the manlier ill which lie had conducted the day's proceedings, (be speakers expressing the opinion thai no more fair-, minded man could have been selected.' Mr (iiles briellv acknowledged the vote. l/poii the motion of Mr Busl. second-

Ed bv Mr (iiles. a hearlv vole of thankwas ' directed to be conveyed to Mr Tiseh. the Mayor, for his kindness In placing the Council Chambers at the disposal of the Conciliation Commission. The Court adjourned at about 4.20.