THE NAVY.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume LII, Issue 93, 15 May 1909, Page 3

THE NAVY.

GREAT DEBATE IX HOUSE OP COMMONS. BRITALV AND. GERMANY. PROPOSED EXCHANGE OF PROGRAMMES. By a party vote of 218 on 29th March, the House of Commons rejected the vote | of censure on the Government: "That in the opinion of this House the declared policy of His Majesty's Government respecting the immediate provision of battleships of the newest type does not sufficiently secure the safety of the Empire." The question at issue was really whether the Government would definitely promise to lay down eight Dreadnoughts this year. The vote therefore means that only four Dreadnoughts can be regarded as certain; the four "hypothetical'' Dreadnoughts still remain in the realm of hypothesis. The debate (says the Daily Mail) was worthy of the greatest traditions of the House of Commons, so far as its speeches went.

The debate began in an atmosphere of repressed feeling, always present wlin great national issues, as distinct from party matters, arc under review. Members entered Palace Yard through a crowd lined up outside the great iron gates. Inside the House tlie expectancy was as keen as it iwas out in the street. Members seated on the green benches hardly whispered to each other, and there was almost an absence of the usual chorus of undertones. Over all lay the spirit of a great occasion. No one present could fail to detect the atmosphere of anxiety, entirely different from the usual heated party feeling on important political occasions. Responsibility was in the air. The nerves of all were strangely touched by it. The gathering in the House was *n impressive one when at a quarter to four the Speaker called on Mr. Arthur Lee. Never during the present session has ■ there been so many members present. The only gap in the field of faces was on the Nationalist benches. Members unable to find seats in the usual places on the floor of the House were sprinkled along the side galleries overhead, while others found temporary seats in the gangways; Sir Frederick Banbury and Sir. Masterman were perched on the ' steps of the Speaker's chair. Members of the House of Lords filled the Peers' Gallery, among them being Lord Cawdor, First Lord of the Admiralty under Mr. Balfour. Later the gallery was so crowded that Lord Lansdowne and Lord Middleton could not get in. The diplomatists' gallery was crowded. Among the Ambassadors were those of the United States, Japan, and Germany.

NO PANIC. BUT ACUTE ANXIETY. A burst of applause broke from the Unionists when Mr, Lee rose to move the vote of censure. He began his task in the low tone and with the steady utterance of a man who is determined to miss no point by reason of excitement or over-anxiety. He was obviously a little nervous, but, cheered by his colleagues, he soon began to manifest assurance. The solid army of hundreds of Liberals opposite, the band of Labor members on the same side of the House, were as keenly interested in every word that dropped from Mr. Lee as the Unionists themselves. From time to time there was an angry murmur as some stab went home. Once or twice defiant cheers broke out, but on the whole a respectful silence allowed him to make all his points clearly. "Surely," said Mr. Lee, "it is better that we should lave ships of 70 per cent, .proficiency on' the day of Armageddon than double the number of ships of 100 per cent, proficiency after the battle is over." Facts had come to his notice which enabled him to say that if tenders were invited for the problematical ships it would be possible to have four of them in two years and four months, and a second four in two years and nine months.

SIR EDWARD GREY.

Sir Edward Grey, calm, pale-faced, and dignified, who had been making occasional notes during Mr. Lee's speech, at once rose from the side of the Prime Minister, and was greeted with shouts of applause from the Liberals. In his characteristic, deliberate way, he acknowledged that Mr. Lee's speech was in the nature of an appeal and not at all provocative. At the same time the Opposition could not escape from the form of their motion nor from its effects in the House and outside. The Liberals cheered loudly, and Mr. Balfour exclaimed, "It is not we wiio ■want to escape," and the Unionists met tlie Liberal outcry with counter-cheers.' A touch of warmth crept into the Foreign Sectary's voice. "Is the right lion, gentleman," he asked, /'prepared to give an assurance that the terms of this motion and its whole effect will not be used for party purposes outside!" The Liberals burst into delighted applause. "Whoever takes a step of this kind must be responsible for the consequences; I am not suggesting that the Tight lion, gentleman wanted to run away."

Tlhe Opposition, before puttiug down, 1 a vote of censure, should have waited till the last possible moment consistent with national safety. The time would have been in July, the usual month lor the vote for new construction. OL'K WEAK POINT.

He acknowledged the non-party attitude of Mr. Balfour on questions of aauonal defence generally, and emphasised his regret at the present action of the Opposition Leader.. Then he turned to the issue. "I will not attempt to minimise the seriousness of the situation. We are not striving for a party victory; we desire by just, fair, and reasonable statements of our position to gain not victory, but confidence. (Applause.) "A new situation is created by the German programme. When it is" completed Germany will nave the fleet close to our own shores, will have a fleet of thirty-three Dreadnoughts, and that fleet will be the most powerful which the world has ever seen. That imposes on us the! necessity of rebuilding the whole of our Fleet. What we do not know is the time in which we shall have to do it. That is the element of doubt and uncertainty. The first thing we have got to make sure of i« our capacity to build. We have got to take stock of the plant in this country in order that when we give orders for'ships they may be completed in the shortest possible time. (Cheers.) By that I mean orders' not for one ship, but for a batch of ships. The Admiralty v have taken stock of our plant. British capacity for building hulls and propelling machinery is' considerably in excess of the German capacity. In the manufacture of guns of the largest size we believe our capacity for output is also superior. The weafc and doubtful point is our comparative capacity for the construe-' tion Of gun-mountings. The Admiralty Save already made arrangements with onr manufacturers to provide for such an iicrease in their plant as will in the course of a few months from The present time give us an advantage in this branch of construction also." (Cheers.) The House Hank to a still deeper attention when the Foreign Secretary derailed our relations with Germany. J 'We took things up s'hen we came into Office .is we found them. During the Algcciras Conference between us and Germany there -yas a period of diplomatic tension, but with the close of that conference wc had nothing to dis'cuss but the questions relating dirctly to ourselves, and diplomatic re- ' ■ tions proceeded perfectly smoothly. The next point was the visit of t'n'J '•'crmnn Emperor to London, a rbsit i-'iicli was in all respects satisfactory, ff'heers.) From that stage we went to r 'prther one, the vicit of the King to 5 'in the other day, which in its turn •was equally satisfactory. (Cheers,) As far as 1 diplomatic relations are concerned, since the present Government «'amc into office there has been a peacefill progression and improvement bctween us and Germany up to the King's visit to Berlin. As regards our fiitinc diplomatic relations with Ofrmany. I see a wide space in which we may both of us waik in peace and amity. (Loud and prolonged cheers.) In my opinion ftwo extreme things -would! produce a •conflict: One is an attempt on our part to isolate Germany. T should like to <ihserve that in recent events nothing has' been more unfounded o r malign in its influence than the statement that anv'difference of opinion wc have had •witti regard to Austria has been dictated W the fact that Austria was Germany's friend. On the contrary, we have carefully avoided anything which was likely to make mischief between lhos» two Powers. (Cheers.) Another thing which ■would certainly produce a conflict would Tie the isolation of England, under an attempt by any great Continental Power i to dominate and dictate the nnlicy of the Continent. But between these'twol "txtremeg there is a wide space in which! #e two nations san walk together i? i

I perfectly friendly way. (Cheers.) If that is understood by public opinion in the two countries', surely they must recognise that the possibilities of peace and goodwill between us arc enormous. (Cheers.) THE ONLY WAY. "The German view of their naval programme is that it is made for their own needs and has no reference to ours. Our view of our own naval needs is that our expenditure is, and must be, dependent , on the German expenditure, although . the German is not dependent upo:i ours. (Cheers.) It is essential to us that we . should not fall into a position of in- . feriority. Public opinion increasingly , measures our probable relations with, i Germany by our respective naval ex- . penditure. An increase of naval expen-1 diture on both sides is undoubtedly] • viewed by public opinion with apprehen. . sion, and a decrease would immediately | produce a feeling of increased security and peace. (Ministerial cheers.) If we could have a cessation of competition, the effect would be incalculable. (Cheers.) Is there any conceivable method by which this might be brought about? Various arrangements are con-1 ceivable. A general agreement to limit j or reduce naval expenditure, a compari-1 son of Naval Estimates year by year! in advance, or if these were impossible! the two Admiralties might exchange in- j formation as to the progress of "their building. Suppose each Government were to iiy that in order to stop these' scares and suspicions the two Admiral-1 ties should agree to exchange information and put each in a position to sny I that they knew, the other's' programme. That is tlie, only way it can be done. 1 foresee that even if we dispose of the | statements of lion, members opposite, we shall in the future from time to time j have these excursions and alarums, and I know of no way in which they can be completely disposed of unless the two Admiralties agree to exchange information. On wha't basis would an arrangement with Germany have to be proposed? It must be the basis of the superiority of the British Fleet. Tt is another thing to ask the German Government to expose itself to the charge of having co-operated to make the at- . tainment of our view easy. There is no j comparison between the importance of ! the German Navy to Germanv and of ' our Navy to us. (Cheers.) Our Navy is to us what their Army is to them. ' The Navy is not a matter of life andj! death to them as-it is to us. (Cheers.)

GERMANY'S DECLARATION, i "W« have been informed verbally, but quite definitely, that Germany will not , accelerate her naval programme of construction and will not have thirteen 6hips of the Dreadnought type, including cruisers, till the end of 1012. We have also been told that contracts for two ships of the financial year 1909-10 were promised in advance to certain firms, which will be ready for trial trips at the earliest in April, 1912, and will not be ready for commission before October, 1912. As regards the remaining two ships of the 1909-10 programme we are informed that tenders will be called for late in the summer, and that the orders will be given two or three months later. We did not ask the German Government for information, but early in January I tool? an opportunity of making it known that though we had always been told by the Germans that they .were not going to exceed their present programme, yet, according to our information, there was acceleration, and they must therefore not be surprised if our Naval Estimates showed a considerable increase. It is a declaration of intention; it is not an undertaking; it does not bind the German Government, but it does dispose of the idea that they are preparing to have three ships ready in 1910. (Ministerial cheers.) I accept the German declaration of their intention. It has been given me in a form in which it could be used in Parliament, and I give it to the House as it was given to me—as a declaration of intention given in all good faith representing the settled mind of the German Government. v (Loud Ministerial cheers.) There were some points, however, which, he could frankly say, the declaration did not cover. In the first place, it was usual for Germany to allow six months for trial, so tha't if her intention was to have ships ready for commission on a certain date we could assume that these ships would be ready for trial six months earlier. In the next place, there was nothing as to the type of ship, and it was possible that they might be superior to the vessels already launched. Supposing we had twenty Dreadnoughts to Germany's thirteen, three or four were of an entirely now type, possessing qualities which could not be counteracted simply by superiority in Humberts, then, we should still have to builil other ships to counteract the new typo. That is a reason for keeping an open minn with regard to what 1 may call, the four hypothetical ships. If there is danger in being too slow, there is also a very great uanger in being too quick."

CABINETS VITAL PROMISE

'■Xor did Germany's declaration cover what might be called the power to accelerate—namely, the accumulation, uf .gun-mountings, turrets, etc. This might make a difference in tlie situation if the political sky should become clouded. Further, we were not told what the situation would he in 1013 or 1914. When the thirteen German vessels were completed in 1912 there would still be twelve more under construction, and they might appear very rapidly in 1913 and 1914. If in the latter half of this' year we were to give orders for the four hypothetical ships, we should have twenty Dreadnoughts in April, 1913. Let the House be quite clear about these four ships. They arc not intended as a, limitation on next year's programme. (Opposition cheers.) 'They arc put in this year's Estimates entirely without prejudice to the programme of next year. So long as the Dreadnoughts are small in number, and wc have a superiority of twelve to eleven, or anything of the sort, the pre-Dreadnought" ships count for a great deal. But when you come to say twenty-four to twenty-one they count for less; and wicn the Dreadnoughts have reached the maximum point they will hardly count at all. The House may say: 'We don't And fault with the power you are taking in the Estimates to build eight ships, but we don't trust you to make use of the power.' (Opposition.cheers.) If wc have information which leads us to believe that another Power i» accelerating its construction wc shall, of course, exercise that power to the full. (Ministerial cheers.) The Admiralty lias never under-estimated the necessities of the occasion. When it has got information it has acted upon it, and when information has been doubtful it has given national safety the benefit of the doubt. (Ministerial cheers.) We shall do the same in the future—whenever there is any doubt we shall give the doubt on the side of national safety. (Cheers.) When it comes to a question of national safety no Government in this country will err on the side of economy." (Cheers.) RUIXOUS COMPETITION.

Sir Edward Grey continued: "I would be the last to deny that martial spirit has its proper place in the nation. But what do wc find to-day? All'the great countries of Europe are raising enormous revenues, something like half of which is being spent on naval and military preparations'. That is a reflection on our civilisation. (Cheers.) If it goes on. not in our generation, perhaps, but sooner or later, it must submerge th,at civilisation and in Europe lead to national bankruptcy. Surely it is obvious that tile whole of Europe is in the presence of a great danger. If we alone among the great Powers give up the competition and sink into a position of inferiority, what good should we do? (Opposition cheers") None whatever. We could pride ourselves that we were realising great ideals' of social reform ilt home, while our very exi-tence would be at the mercy of the caprice of another nation. That is no! wisdom. If you full into a position «i inferiority your self-respect is gone. That is a brutal awy of statins the ease, but it, is the truth.' (Opposition cheers.) Deeply as f feel, and as the llon=e fiels on both

sides, the great evil of increasing naval and military expenditure, we must be prepared to defend our national existence under conditions which are imposed upon us. (Cheers.) I am glad that our colonies are at one with us in tills matter. (Loud Opposition and Ministerial cheers.l I appeal to members on both sides of the House lo keep an open mind with regard to the needs of the future, lo recognise that the whole problem of national defence from a naval point of view may be entering upon o stage more grave, more serious, requiring greater care and greater efforts than anything we have yet known. It is' because there is no doubt and uncertainty that our Estimates contain unusual provisions, and T would ask the House not to ask the Government to commit themselves in advance before they know what may be inevitable. (Ministerial cheers.) .lodge if you like when you have full facts before vou. but in the meantime I ask the House to stand with us—(Ministerial and Opposition cheers)—in resisting what seems lome exaggerated

r alarm and mistaken apprehension, anil [ in resisting the attempt to force upon | us prematurely the extreme view which j lias been urged." Loud Ministerial cheers.)