NATIVE LAND BILL.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume L, Issue 61, 21 November 1907, Page 3

NATIVE LAND BILL.

| AN ANIMATED DEBATE. Hon. J. Carroll, in moving the second reading of the. Bill, said that the an'a of land investigated by the Native Com. mission was 550',737 acres. The Commission recommended that it should be disposed of as follows: —(a) By sale, ti«,02:l acres; (b) by lease, 280,737 acres; and (e) for .Maori occupation, 200,801 acres under various tenures. The question arose whether the Bill should apply to land already reported on or made to apply to areas to be reported on during the next twelve months. Tu view of the demand for land for settlement, he thought unbiassed and disinterested men Would concede that the operations of the Bill should apply not merely to areas already reported on, but to areas to be reported on. Clause 3, providing for the vesting of native lands in Maori Lund Boards, was perhaps the most important one in the Bill. With that dis-

posed of, there was, he said, no reason why the Bill should not be speedily passed. Though members differed on minor points, they agreed on the principal points. Referring to the question of >ettliug natives on their own lands, he said tiie State would be losing a valuable asset if it did not see to this. Private dealings by Maoris with the land affected had, as far as possible, been done away with. That might be hard in some cases where Maoris wanted credit, hut in the long run it would be found to be most advantageous. He hoped members would assist to place the measure mi the Statute Book as a preliminary to a more comprehensive measure that would be brought down next session.

Mr. ITerries thought it was a very wrong thing for any Government to appoint as a member of a Commission a member of the Judiciary Bench or a member of Parliament. He went on to object to the provisions of the Bill, which relegated to the Boards the function of saying how the land should be disposed of without the natives having any say in the matter whatever. To all intents and purposes the native owner might be in a lunatic asylum. He strongly objected to the policy of keeping natives in a state of tutelage. No one in the Dominion desired free trade in native land. He was one of those who desired to educate the natives up to the standard of Europeans, so that they could farm their own lands and manage their own business. He urged that a policy should be adopted of enabling pakeha and Maori to meet face to face to transact business.

Mr. A. T. Xgata (Eastern Maori District, who is a member of the Commission), claimed the right as a member of the House to vote in committee on the clauses dealing with the ultimate disposal of land. The Commission had recommended <i6,000 acres to lie disposed of under sale, and 208,000 acres under lease. The House might say the Commission was biassed; but, with the exception of a block in the King Country, the proposed disposal of the land was in accordance with the owners' views. The Commission would have been able to consider almost the whole of the native lands but fof the illness of the Chief .Tustice. He went on to say that the Maori idea of land tenure was against the whole of the legislation from 11)00 onwards. The Maori wanted to be left alone, and to have the right to unrestricted freedom in dealing with Europeans. Since 18(15 the Maori had tried to disentangle himself from his fellows and individualise his land and adopt the same methods as the pakelm. Would the pakelia wait until the Maori had placed himself on the same plane as the pakelia? The native had been driven into a corner, and it was not right to say that the pakelia should take what lie wanted and leave the Maori the crumbs. He was opposed to the Bill when it first came down; but members had been met by the Government and the Bill amended in committee. He said that if the Maori proved he could farm his land, then in a period of forty or fifty years there would be no more need for reserving land for Maoris. On these grounds the Maori members were opposed to the leasing of lands for longer periods than fifty years. He added that facilities had been given Europeans to go on the land, and he urged that similar facilities should be given to Maoris. This Bill for the first time proposed to give such facilities. He was one of those optimists who thought the Maoris were capable of becoming farmers. Instances of Maoris' adaptability for farming were numerous in the Bay of Plenty ami other districts—cases where the natives had not had the advantage of assistance from the Government but had succeeded in making headway as agriculturists and sheep-farmers.

Mr. Massey, referring to the Native Land Commission, strongly objected to " the placing of a Supreme Court Judge ' and a member of the House on the Com- ' mission. He understood the Commission had reported that some Oti.OOO acres should be open for ualc and some 2C(i,000 for leasehold, but the Bill did not follow . the recommendations of the Commission. It set apart half the area for leasehold occupation and half for freehold. Not ;, one per cent, of the population understood the Bill, and he was convinced 1 that not one per cent, of the natives ■ would accept it. The l'remier prefaced his remarks by paying a high tribute to Mr. Ngata's speech. He desired to ask native mem- j hers to reconsider some of the clauses inserted by the Native Allaire Committee, as in his opinion they were ruinous. They would altogether alter the proposals. Mr. Kaihau said the Bill's provisions made a new way of dealing with native land. He asked if Europeans would like to have their business administered by boards. The Maoris were subjects of the same King as the pakeha, and why should separate legislation be j brought down for Maoris? The Maoris had not asked for this measure, and would not agree to it, as they desired to manage their own affairs and not have them managed by a board. He . protested against tins measure being brought down during the closing hours of the session. He was convinced that, if members of the House knew the feelings of the natives, they would not lend themselves to the passing of this measure. Only a small portion of land remained in the hands of Maoris, and in his own electorate, if the land was divided there would not be more than j 50 to 70 acres for each man, woman, I and child of the Maori race. Notwithstanding this, he was prepared, in conI sidcratiun of the large European popuI latum and the assistance they had given and were giving the natives, to set aside a portion for Kuropcans. By the Treaty of YVaitangi the Maoris were to be allowed to manage their own affairs, but tin's Act was confiscation. He had supported the Government for years, but if the Bill was passed he would support them no longer. He added that on one occasion lii<s vote had saved the fiovernnicnt. lie pressed the Covcrnment not to proceed with the measure this ses- | sion. He would undertake to provide

some means of satisfying the cry of i Europeans for Maori lands. If the Bill was postponed for two years lie would undertake tn provide from his own electorate suflieient land to satisfy Hie I wants of every pakeha, in Xcw Zealand. I If the Bill was not postponed, a number ! of Maori chiefs, it had been decided, wore J to go direct to England with their objection, lie insert that they should not be driven to this course, hut that the Bill should be held over aud the matter settled in New Zealand, lie moved that tlif Bill shouitl he postponed till next session. Mr. Jennings said none of the speakers hail placed before the Hons? the position of settlers who had prone out back to wiW from the virgin bush lands on which to settle—lands which were value. less to the Maoris until the strong arm of tlie pakeha was introduced.

Mr. A. L. 1). h'rascr said lie had resigned Ins position on the Xative Affairs Committee ten days ago and had had nothing to do with the passing of the Bill by the Committee. He pointed out licit the Land Bill dealing with Europeans had been introduced last session and postponed for twelve months before being finally dealt with. Thus the pakeha had had the opportunity of -linlying the measure: but this Bill, turning the whole of the native land laws topsy-turvy, was brought down at the Inst period and only translated into the Maori language during the last ten day*. Consequently the Maori race was not acquainted with it. He paid a high tribute to the work accomplished hv Air. W'ala on the Commission. Notvvitlistandini; this, he, contended that the Chief .Inslire and Mr. Xgata were the two last persons who should have been placed on the Commission. The C.overnment had since 1801 taken native lands at prices far below their value and made hundreds of natives bankrupt. Mr. Syines also urged that the Bill should be delayed until next- session. Xo harm could be done by following this course. The debate continued after midnight. The Premier, replying to various members who urgtfi the postponement

of the measure, said the Government intended to pass it. He was not going to iiave it said that the House was putting the measure through in the early hours of the morning. If necessary he would continue the session another week. Mr. Massey said he did not want the postponement of the Bill, because he be-1 lievert there was a little good in it, and he was prepared to assist to improve it in committee, as he desired to see native lands settled. Messrs. Marnier and Lang urged that, natives should be allowed to dispose ol their own lands, and not compelled te sell only to the Government. Messrs. Ell and Dillon strongly sup-, ported the Bill. ) Mr. Kaihau's amendment was lost on the voices. Mr. Hekc said that if the Bill waf submitted to Maoris their verdict wonlt' be that the Government and private individuals should cease from acquiring lands from natives, as there was onh a remnant left for the natives and theii descendants. After Mr. Carroll had replied, the second reading was carried by 42 votef to 7. The House adjourned at 2.20 a.m.