PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume XLVII, Issue 81873, 24 October 1906, Page 2

PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT.

DEBATE IN THE HOUSE. MILD OPPOSITION. THE CQ-OPERTIVE SYSTEM. Per Press Association. Wellington, October 23. In moving the second reading" of th<" Aid to Public Works and Land Settlement Bill to-day. the Premier reminded the House that it had been agreed to take this opportunity for discussing the Public Works Statement .

Mr Mnssey did nut object to that, but he thought the continuation of committee would be detrimental to the discussion. He hoped the system of short-dated debentures would not be resorted to this time. Whether the hon. gentleman intended to get his money in London or not he did not know; probably he would not be able to get it there. At all events wherever lie got it, if he went back to tho system of sinking funds it would help his finance greatly. He said the Statement had occasioned a feeling of deep disappointment, and had left but .£270,000 of netv money for the roads and bridges of the colony, and of that sum not ,6250,800 would be spent. The public would not understand that, as the difference between the liabilities and the new votes was not clear, and they were entilled to a better system of accounts, which would be understood at a giance. He would repeat his protest against the system of allocating the moneys, which amounted to this : that tho district able to bring the greatest pressure to bear secured the best treatment. He objected to the numerous votes for clocks. It was a crying shame, when the country districts arc crying' out for roads and bridges, to devote large sums to clocks. To the principle of spending money on railways he had no objection, but he thought the value of the money should be given. The vote this year was .£871,360. He did not object to tho amount, but he was sure that in' speed, working and results the country would not have full value. He-proceeded to criticise the details of work adopted on the co-opera-tive works, under which gravel was shovelled two or three times over-: for lack of up-to-date tip waggons. Such a system would ruin any contractor, lie wont on to give details of the hardships endured by settlers' wives and sick persons in the roadless country. He had a suggestion for the Minister of Public Works, whom I'e did not see in his place. The Premier: He is attending a committee. Mr Massov did not care; that Minister ought to be in his place during the discussion of the Public Works Statement. His suggestion was to experiment exhaustively with the much-discussed suction gas, and as a source of power it might also be a source of much economy. Mr Herries thought that when a Bill for borrowing a million was put before the House, the position of the country up to date should be put before the House. With it he would be glad to see the money obtained at par. Nevertheless, he could not avoid adverse comment on the 'ast method of flotation. He hoped the large amounts of debentures periodically falling due would not make the position milre difficult The liabilities required to be faced. Between the authorised loan, 83,075, am ' 1 lie Treasury Bills .£750,000, and the debentures and loan, there was a liability for the year of soiije £7,000,.000. A'l would not have to be raised. The proportion indispensable would probably include two millions of debentures, ,6750.000 of Treasury Bills, one million loan, and, say, about onethird of the balance of the above seven millions, in all nearly five millions.! He hoped the system of short-dated' debentures would not be resorted '<v He trusted the Minister would explain what he proposed to do, in which connections he complimented the Minister as much as he had lately been using long-dated debentures, i Proceeding, he found the inadequacy of the provision for the mining indus tty very marked, and what was worse a large proportion of the money voted was not spent. Coming to the railway details, he found the provision for the Poverty Ba'y and Opotiki district very insufficient. The Hon Mr McGowan denied either that the mining vote was inadequate or that he had not spent the votes. During his six years of office he had spent an average of £44,000 as against £33,000 of his predecessor, the hon. gentleman. The division of tho money between the two islands was fair, as was shown by the veering of the balance steadily of late years in favour of the Mr Reid dissected and analysed the public debt. He felt sure the prosent conditions of the London money market were unpropitious to colonial

oonowing. Mr Malcolm took the opportunity of saying tliat Otago had been shabbily tieated. A drop ot' ,£40,000 in tue proposed railway vote was nioiu than his part of the world woyld stand. Thousands of aqes of limber, a most valuable asset in CKago, were being; wasted, wnile the railway 1 ailed to aidvanco near enough to take u to a market. Mr Stallworthy complained of the insufficiency of the votes for his district.

Mr Hogg congratulated the Gt vernmcm on tho miiclness of the 0[ position criticism. He pointed 01 that l le amount proposed to bo mad available, zl miliums, was the larges 011 record, and claimed that the pic spertty of the colony and the inereas ot its exports proved that the line 0 expenditure had justified itself. Til 31 Wiles. of the Jsortli Island Trun] i 1 lie was Hie most substantial eve made vitlnn the y;ear. The ne\ road mileage was the largest in ou annals. Oil the whole, iliti Pqbli, Works Statement was a rcmarfeabl; good one. Mr Mandcr complimented the Mill ister y.n the provision made for tn extension of the Helensvillc railway but he thought moro ought to hav been done for the Kawakawa line. Mr Wilford condemned the scram ble on the iioor of the House. Hi complimented the Minister of Public Works as the fairest and best win luid ever held ojlice. In condemn ing the co-operative system as ir every way bad, he excepted the Mill ister, who was compelled to carry it out. Men of great capacity wort bracketed with men of none. (Inter luptiojis >vaied that men could classi fy themselves.) Mr Wilford sjtJ tiiai was so, but they could p.-»t always uc so. He had known good men, con. stilucms of hi,, »)io liad been oHiig ed to work, witli supers of an opera company. Good money was madi b/ men properly classed in gangs, but there was another side to tile pieture. There must be great dissatis faction among good men at being compelled to share their earnings with men, honest enough and willing enough, but unable to do do the work given to them. Would the Minister tell the House that the co-operative ■system had been a success. His experience, added to by that 'of his maov officers, was but if 0,1? Minister said tae system |s good and Workablo he would He must admit the same time the anomalies.. Hp would listen with great attention to his reply, to see if he advised the continuance of the system, or tile appointment of a Commission "f infinity by men who understood the subject. Passing frm the eo.op'Vativo system, he depreeatod localism in the criticism of thp allocations, advocating a classi hoati'on of works accoi'dinjj to their colonial importance. K«f example, he rugardctl the Trunk railway as important from the fence point of view. The Minister of Public Works was cautious, evidently 1 with Seotelx bipod in him. (Mr T. : Mac.Kerizie: "A good strain of ■ b'ood. I '} Mr Wilford agreed it was ( good. He was tho right man t<\l carry out a proper system such as h(j[ 'lad suggested. Such a system re- > tiuired borrowing to feed it, and would by its fruits justify its expenditure. Ho urged in this connection the prftviptost development under the !)"••£ advice of tho best experts of the water powers of the country, which weie unrivalled in the world. Mr Steveas congratulated Mr Wilford 011 the grasp he had of a f.iw of 'he ootnts of the Public Works policy, but he must not be angry, with him if told him he knew absolutely nothing about the co-operative system. That system,

vant of classification. Seeing this, had himself advised classification. l had boon applied, and the result >ad given general satisfaction. fJc couteo ii lo j c ||, a [] lal these wur | <H wcro "e retuge of the incompetent and destitute. He detailed how the men equirecl fur any particular work are livided into three grades, and how djustment » mado from tjmc tQ • 1 . 1 here was a minimum wage, ilu ' Ks ' sU ™ cl'minatcd all unable i 0,11 n !t - 11 might be bad for hose incompetents, but that was un■voidable, and something cliff-rent md to be done for them. The adustment might not be perfect, but t served a good purpose remarkably aoll. He therefore could not sit there md listen to these sweeping denunciations. But lor the system, the iOup kiteluns of ihe colony would lave been full to overflowing. It ivas the duty of the State to enab'e ill wno required it to get from the i lie expenditure enough work to keep them from starvation: therefore 10 commended the member fo r the lutt for acting as a labour bureau, and he eould tell him he himself had acM even longer as a labor bureau. Un the House resuming at 7.30, Mr Poole resumed the debate. He dwelt :m thc of the Auckland district, advocating a generous expendiure of public money. He regarded the North Island Main Trunk aB an absolute necessity, and the claims of -very Other railway in the North, as irrefragable.. Mr Rutherford claimed that his district should be treated tho same as w" 1 '^ 1C - allocati °n s in 'he 1 üblie Works Estimates for the various road districts in the colony worked out as follows Auckland (three districts), £143,026; Hawke's Bay i,37j7'3; Taranaki, £36,839; Wanganuii £42,901; Wellington, £39,013: Nelson £60,8251 Marlborough, £ls/226; Westland, £48,995 ; Canterbury, jo 1 5*3^6; Otago, and South--11 i' £3°'7° 2 ' Continuing, Mr Rutherford made an appeal for better treatment for the co-operative labourer. Mr Davey (Christchurch) discussed the co-operative labourer and his work. From what he had seen of cooperative labour it appeared to be a gieat waste of public money. The waste of money on the Waipara-Che-viot line wa s absolutely criminal. The co-operative men were not supplied with proper appliances. If they were they would do good work. Men were put to work with shovels and jarrows, instead of using scoops and !rays. Mr Hogan approved the item, £25,)00, for maintenance of main roads, jut he thought that owing to the high ■vages paid and the large number of andslips, t ho amount ought to be argely increased. He did not agree nth the Minister that railways ought 0 go before roads, and he thougnt he two portfolios of Works and Railways too much for one man. He ■riticised the co-operative system at ength. The Hon. Hall-Jones was reminded >y tho last speaker of the travellers rao go abroad and write full ac:ounts after a week's travel, and delended on cock-and-bull stories.. He lenied that the men are not classified 10 appealed to the member for Egnont, who had 1000 men working jn :is district. He could tell the hon. aembcr of the classification, the bailing out, and the adjustment. It ias wrong of the hon. member for Yanganui to make such misleading tatements. Mr Hogan had beea nisinformed. Every officer on the iervice had his orders never to present men from classifying thennel/es and always to give them every ac'lity. In some cases it was right t o make roads before railways, but ;ve ry point of view had to be considered. The propositton made by Mr llogan was quite remarkable. Tho Jay system was proving ctieaper and belter. Our railways were costing a mile, a less cost than the tasmanian, but our rails were 701b, bridges steel, instead of timoer, and heavier culverts. A voice: "how. ibout Makohme?' 1 Mr Hall-Jones: es, and at MakatoKe, in every point, excavation, concrete and cieclion, Hie contract puces there wer« all Jiigntty dearer tnan the cost unuer aay laDour at Manohine, Abou. uie scoops and piougns 01 Mr Davey, he saiu tiiat tuere wcie Conditions unLter winch ttiese would not pay. iiii instructions to his. engineers were to employ labour-saving" macmnery every time. It tney nad cteciciea not iti employ them at any particular place, he took their authority tnat mi. j could not be profitaoly employed latner than Mr Davey s, who thougnt itiey could. Mr Jennings supported the Minisabout the wages and the classification under the co-operative system. Mr j. Allen charged the co-opera-tive system with _placing the ohtcers at the mercy of me men, and compelling the men to pa'y on pay days toif receipt stamps, though tne law exempts all wages from the impost. Regarding the airocation»of expenditure, he admitted it would be difficult, t" Syggest a better system. All he could see was that no one man could, possibly do what the Minister tries to do under the present system—tnat is,, arrive at a decision among all the numerous reports of the Departmental and other engineers, and the many requests made to him of the works most necessary. It was wrong to accept decisions made under those conditions, and. still more wrong to contend as between districts for works. It must be apparent to every member that such a system is unsatisfactory, and ho thought it would be well for them to join together and devise a better. He would like to. know by, IV ay of illustration of the present sys-' tern, how was it that the district o£ IV'estland had not to find a single £, ivhereas the £ for £ system was enforced in many districts. Then as 0 the expenditure of the votes, the wantage of expenditure on the votet k'aried from district to district. Whyfr 11 ii was wrong' to vote the money lon't vote it. "laving voted it, let here be no Coming .0 the railway allocations, he Btterl'y ailed to understand tho system or :o appreciate the fairness of the conracts between votes and expenditure. Then who would exp\ain the decrease >f on the, railway vote, and {,43,000 of the. road vote —a decrease in the be?t lines? Th(i lion. C. H. Mills criticised Mr \llen for having fallen to the level >f a penny stamp. Mr Mills cxjlaincd that the sole cause of the disrepancy between votes and expendiur<i was due to the irregularity witli Vhich the means of (he Public Works, "und came in. Mr T. MacKcnzie/ Mr £ll and Mr Remington spoke. Mr W. l l laser urged the undesirblcness of a faking Fund under theircumstanccs of the country. In a lorrowing country such a fund musL ome out of borrowed money, and hat was manifestly absurd. With lie squaring 0 of old war loans, it ias very different of course. Mr Sidey, Mc MrPhcrson, and Mr. 'oland spoke.

Q'fAGO DISSATISFIED. Dunedip, October 23. At a mooting of iho executive of the Chamber of Commwce, it was unanimouslyjesolved that Otago members of ill?: lionise of Representatives bo wiled to wrotesting against the unfair treatment being accorded to the Voviacc in the matter of railway- consi,rtiction. and urging them to use every endeavour to secure larger votes for Otago railways, which were' equally as important as any of ilia others in the colony; further, that they 1)0 reminded of the injustice under which filters in Otago districts are suffering who have taken up remotetand under distinct promises fromsuccessive Governments (hat rainvav communication would be provided', and that they be urged to see speedyjustice done to such settlers.