THE LAND BILL.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume XLVII, Issue 81861, 10 October 1906, Page 2

THE LAND BILL.

THE SKCONI) READING ' DEJiATK. j I<J<ELIMINAI<V EIGHT EOR ' "TALI-;.'' Wellington, October y. When I'm' 1 lesumcd at 7.30 last night. ill'' Premier stigges.ed that an hour sliou'd be granted to the l.ead"r of the Opposition and to himself to p'|>ly to him. Ill' made the suggestion because his colleague, 'l' o Minister of Lands, would spend most of his time in explaining the ISiH. Mr T. Mackenzie piotesled again*! invidious distinctions. lie thought if the limit were extended it should be extended to all alike. The Premier moved th'e suspension of the Standing Orders. Mr Merries, who in answer t" interruptions, disclaimed all idea of obstruction, agreed with the member fot Waikouaiti. He urged the Premier to make the extension general. The Premier poin.ul out that the three main speeches would bring the House to the hour of lising, after which he would be happy t° consider the suggestion of the member for the

Hay of Plenty. (Laughter.) Mr Massey did not feel sure that he wanted the hour, but ho wcu.d not grudge one to the Premier, and, 'ndeed, for all he cared, the Premier ni'ght have two. Mr Major thought the lmpm-tance of the question required the extension. Mr R. McKenzie was of opinion that the extension beyond an hour would be justifiable. After further discussion, during which several members advocated the making the extension general, the Premier offered to be content wall half ' an hour, leaving the extension to the I Leader of the Opposition. ' Mr Alison moved the extension of lii-j Premier's motion to every member.

Mr Symes suppoited, on account of lw vast importance of the subject. Mr F'atman opposed on the ground :hat the extension of the limit would he'only an extension of twaddle, lie twitted Mi with having ■"<>>

up Mr Alison. Mr Massey denied this, stating at tlio same time that lie thought an hour would be necessary tu everybody. The Premier left the responsibility

of decision to the House, with the declaration that he would limit himself 1.1 half an hour in any case.

On division the amendment was lost by 40 to 33- , , .. Mr Baumc urged that the smalt-

ncss of the majority was a strong leason for the Government to grant the extension, which had just been refused. The Premier's amendment passed. Till: MINSTER FOR LANDS.

The Hon. the Minister for Lands then rose to move the second reading of the Land Bill. lie pointed out that as there was much 111 the Bill that was in it when it w : as before the House before, he would not require to waste time over that. He would take the new portions added by the Committee, wtiich covered much detail. He wou'd begin with the remark that th proposals had been wisely discussed by mis time. One of these w'as t place limitations on every (sic) man alike. The first was of the /.'so,'Jou unimproved value, involving a valuation of all such properties,, as the last list had been rendered unreliable by sales, deaths, and, above a'l things, by the late very large increase of the value of the land. Taking that list, the excess value was something like two and a-quarter millions. This question would be accurately setwhen the new list was formed. Thai list would only be reopened by the Legislature, but there was no ;n----ti'ntion to reopen it at the end of 10 yeai-s. There would be a revision before the Court, the Minister of Lands stepping in 10 sell the excess. ii would, of couisc, bt' to the interest of ilu owner to realise early, and the fear of the Minister stepping in would quicken perception of the tact. Trustees Had oetn excepted by the Committee. which f'eit tnat no trustee shou'd have the power to penalise a beneficiary, and trustees mighi not have the beta' fac.(UK's for realising. Clause H (By had been devised to prevent selling owners from retaining an illicit st. Tile sale c«uld be on terms extending over ten years, but owners bt coming mortgagors could not buy back at a sale forced by defaults. The Minister proceeded to explain the citange in the puichasets' restriction 11 tun acreage to value, showing how

ah tiie dilncuiiirs in the latter case vanish. Wills and intestanls, lie explained, were not subject to tins /j 5;oo j restriction, which exceptions no detailed as published, adding that mortgages are nut excluded, for otheiWisj tho whole machinery of lestriclun would be defeated witli east. Mortgagees becoming" purchasers would be limited to two years, and bona fide contracts for pulcliase prior to the commencement of the Act are exempt ft(jtu the lestriction. With regard to ill J Lease-in-Perpt tuity and the Renewable Lease 132 years in all (Mr Hogg: "Long enough for anybody"), the Minister explained the p.ovisions, adding that it is out of the question lo fix the percentage on the value cf t-h.- land at the time of renewal, as that is a matter dependent on the valu : ol money, which cannot be known Go years in advance. With regal dlO tlw payments on capital value, only two obligations would remain, those Oi rent and residence. Moreover, moneys thus paid would be a-ways available for tnc payment of rent in time of trouble or 'calamity. The kase-in-peipeiuity tenants under this system would have a yijtj freehold. (A voice: "Why don't you- give it to them?") Much had been said about "a limited freehold.'' The hon. gentleman who had interjected was one wlio was a'ways talking cf a limited freehold, but tnis was (he best p. ssibl« form of limited value. Mtjch had been said of the purchase of the freehold ai the original value. There had been great agitation in that direction. but this piovision of investing up to yo per cint of the original value was, he held, much better. (Uproar, and erics of "No.'') Me insisted, urging that the country at large would say so. Returning to the Rencwab'e Lease, he pointed out that they did not propose to compel the tenants under these leases to any particular s,stejj), foirc them to labour light They would deal liberally with 11.--m .r.ven being ready lo go so i'.ir as t.j let them go for from 10 .0

yea is rent free. That would be the most profiial/c course for the couniry. Coming to the endowment question, lie continued with figures showing 1 a total of 13 million acics now producing- £123,0.10 a year, and

another 3::joo,ooo acres to come. Ije had more to say, but his'tin'iij was exhausted. (Applause.)

LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION. Mr Massey, who was received w>ih applause. said lie had listened with pleasure i'i an exhaustive speech. He complimented Ill'- iM : nis'ev on baying made ihe best "I a bad case. lit l <"- ni-unccd ihe oiig-iual Uiil as the cutdea and iiir;st ill-conditioned measure ever put before the Legislature, and applauded iho Cominitteo for having Jii-ki-d l| into Khan*. The |>rii)ri^|c

of the Jii 11 was bad from (.'very jio'iii cf view, especially from the sottp-rs. whom 11 deprived of independence. It began willi bribery (cbi!!"e 3). in the shape of endowments, which wist'.? a device for preventing-fillers acquiring 1 be freehold- It went 011 to confine the e endowments to the iv'or-l. hinds, which would never attract settlors, IVI pay revenue, nor advance in value. The Renewable [.case he denounced as hampering" settlement, bv f ?:inr immeasurably to the Glasgow iea c T s ''' clause, |l would satisfy nnbedy but 50,,.,. * i'i -, anil Socialists, willi whom the Mimsler is now inseparably ;i«-;oriat-<-.b 1 he li-ll was rotrogiade, brought bv a retrogressive Government. 1 w-'iild not incourn»e settlement, bi>( discern ego it, ,>- r (.aiei- part < f ihe bun! deebpe;l excessive was the property cf i-'n wbo had served too country well. There would not be eno'-e'h bav.l availab'e *ll consequence o; their tri-atinent am! freehold bind woul 1 be ava'lab'e ony for (he 11001 -villi money, but the pier man woii'd 'lave no clonic'. There would, anyhow. Iv lirlo m,- no land av d ! - Ide in 'on vears, instead of the p'cthora which ih" Government pretended to "0 at l'.-.nd. As lo the difi'c-ooee be-'-.'ecn <-iiy ant' eonntrv, ho eou'd "■ t f-db-.w ihe Minislet's exp'aivMon. M Ibe lbnilaiioti was frond for the country, it was gooc! for the city, For

his pari, lie preferred other methods of got ling; land to the rough hammer methods of the Government. The Land for Settlement sclnmc, for instance. lie believed in the justice of placing lands developed by the skill, energy and capital of their owners on Ihi same footing as those for which nothing had been done, -lie was amused at tin- numerous bad and disas11 litis points of the measure. The Minister wanied them to believe that its proposals had been before the country at I lie election. ile denied •hat tl'.cv had ever been near the country. The mortgage clauses were

glorified by tho Minister, but they I were the worst part of the Bill. Fore- 1 clcsuio had never been the law, it was 1 true, but tlu'ie was a much worse thing, and that was not prevented by t'oe Hi 1. Moreover, the experience ol Ihe Bank of New Zealand showed thai mortgagees could not realise in 11 years, and the Bill only allowed 10. This helped to make the Bill distasteful. lie knew a man with means who , was about to settle in the Gisborne count] y, which he fancied greatly, but tki moment lie saw this Bill lie concluded this was no country for him, and departed for Australia. The principle of llio Bill was leasehold ab-

solutely, but the people in the country had called for the freehold at the elections. They were getting a measure which would hand them over *0 landlordism. (Cries of "Who are the lardlords?" and much laughter.) Mr A'lassey was not in favour of landlordism. There was only one thing he hated worse, and that was Socialism, bin he w'as speaking- for tilt man who was to work out his destiny on the land. However, the Minister would find that very few people would take advantage of the measure. Had he given the people the opportunity of getting the freehold, lie would have found it very different. It would have been easy to place a provision on the Statute Book, just in principle and satisfactory to both parties to the contract. Closer settlement and a sttaiglu-out freehold, that was h's laud policy, and any ono producing tl would have his support. Returning to the Renewable Lease, he pointed out its worst faults, lie came to the liitjted freehold of the Mini*^-boo-ed in tho investment up to 90 per cent of the capita'. These leases, he insisted, would be subject to the statutory restrictions on sale and transfer, now so irksome, and there was no security against the Legislature raising ine rent. No tenant, moreover, would trust his money to the State, which could cheat him out of it on all sorts ot pretexts. He referred to the intense anxiety throughout the country about the Bill, and read a resolution passed at Pahiatua against it. For Ilia part, he was quit-.- prepared to go 1 the country on toe Bill. He wanl-

I'd a fair issue on leasehold and freehold both in the House and the couniry. Tliis was the first liill cf impoitance that the Minister had brought forth. Like a pullet with it s first egg, he though; a great dea' more of it than it deserved. He would like that the pu'Jct find it was a very ordinary Bnl after all, one that would probab y never reach the S.aiute Book. (Applause,) THE PREMIER.

The lion, the Premier could not think tile last Speaker had read the li U. He characterised it as a.l leasehold, bin the fact was it was full of the freehold. He had criticised his tui:eague by culogismgtncCommittee winch had improved Uie measure, bui ii was his colleague wlio had moved nearly ail the amendments in Hie Committee. He invited Mr Massey s attention tospecciies delivered by men ul experience years ago: Messrs E. C. j. Stevens in IS7S, and C. C. Bowen i.ll 1880 in the House, advocating laige endowments for the very purpuses mentioned in this Bill, at a time when there was no old-age pension.-, scheme. 1 hese gentlemen belonged .0 th<- party with whom Mr Massey was ass ciated. What did he think ? He Himself had in 1904 called for the lelurm of the Land Laws, and at once, l>u'. he resisted now. in the memorab.o campaign in the South, he hau I'it the pulses of the people, and had itiiurned with a very 'great .modification in his views. Mr Massey asked 10! consideration for the tenants ot .lu freehold, but very great consideration had been shown by the Bill to the L.I.P. tenant, almost as far as giving them the freehold. There was Besides provision in the BiU for a vast mciease of freehold. In 1904, Mr Massey had proposed a limitation ol lands, 640 first class and 3000 second class, yet he objects to the larger restrictions of the Bill. lie had repeated that outside, 640 acre 3 and iooo, yet he was wailing at the ,615,ouo i-estrietion of the Bill. Thai placed him on the horns of a dilomma. There was a want of frankness about tne lion, gentlemen of the other side. l-'or example, there are 115,ouo landholders worth 70 mi.lions sterling, and they made all thiir fuss about 63 holdt-rs holding 2] millions, 10 bo restricted, and talk ot the freehold being taken away, and produce distiust ail over the country. He had, moreover, spoken of tlv( case of Longbeach, but he had not toid the House that all tho improvements a-'; deducted. Mi Hardy: "The va'ue would dien disappear."

The Premier: "In which case it woukl not be touched." Continuing, n' sugested that instead of criticising th; Bill for not referring to Native Lands, Mr Massey had better wait for the Maori Land Bill. ll't had criticised the mortgagee proposals, but had failed co admit that existing mortgagees are exempt. As to endowments, in some States of America oniVtcntii oi the land is devoted ■ o educational endowment. A good way, it, was, to deal with the great giowing fund provided annually, and a justitication for the Bi'l. The revenue already came to .£123,000, and those members objected. They objected also to the 60-year lease, but dial period was nothing in the life of a country, and most useful in the endowment direction as a provision in these great State institutions. The lion, member said that the proposals were before the country at the elcclions. Whose proposals? The hon. gentleman said his. Very well. He l ivii Massey) was a freeholder, and he had come back to that House witli a

parly of iG. Ho said "Give me a dissolution." But if he got it, his patty might be annihilated. At the best, lie might come back with 17, or, tj please the member for Rakaia, he would make it 18. lie quoted resolutions. It was a coincidence huw tlvi wins had been pulled, and ail these resolutions, including that of the famous "X 110" at Ftilding, had been hurled a; ihe sane, just, fearhvs members of the llou-e. He admired the farmers and tlveir organisation, but l.e thought their oigahisatioii just now being mistakenly used. A' all'events',* at the election lliey had known who thyir frien-Js'were. They know that the Government were doing the best thing for settling people on the land, for preventing what had happened in other lands—the eviction of men from the lands of |heir fathers.

Mr T. MacKcnzie: "The leasehold.''

The Premier snicl he was sorry 'o hour that, for his own people had sufficed, and he claimed al! the MacKen/ios, bhic, black apcl red, were with the Government on the question. (Laughter.) The Government's object was the stoppage of the aggregation of largo estates in ihe country. That policy was feasible, but apply

it to ihe towns, as Mr Massey advocated. You would have to cut the liajll; of New Zoaand and other places in two, and that was not a praciieable policy. Coming to the t'me limit, liu was inclined to regard the proposal for the park (sic) limit as deliberately made to waste the vest «f the session, The Government coukl nss the wou'tl help them, before ihe end of the session The Government would take two Ihmjys to the House, and country—endowments and li|i|ita| tons of holdings. Those issues'would be untoueh; ed by leasehold or freehold, and''tho Hill was not against freehold at all. The proposals would be for Ihe settlement <>f the sons and daughters of the farmers in the country. (ApI'.'ause.) The House adjourned at 11 -35-