PARLIAMENT.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume XLVII, Issue 81848, 15 September 1906, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 14.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. by TjaEQiurii— rjijiss association The Council met at 1.30. In moving for a supplemental re-1 turn of native lands, waste and unoccupied, the Hon. J. IJ. ORMOND proceeded to traverse the land policy of the Government. Jle said there was a much larger amount of land available than the Minister of Lands had accounted for in his speech on the land questoin. He condemned the perpetual 'ease as a mistake, and said it was hardly to be expected that holders of leases would be satisfied to give up their rights under anything short of the freehold. lie declared that in the main the Government proposals were the most monstrous ever submitted to a Legislature. At this stage the Attorney-General rose to obtain the ruling of the Speaker as to whether the Hon. Mr Ormond was in order in discussing the land policy, which was not yet before the Council, and was now un der consideration of the Lands Committee.

The SPEAKER thought that while a fairly wide latitude might be allowed, Mr Ormond was going beyond what the simple scope of his motion warranted.

The lion. Mr ORMOND said if he was debarred from dealing with the main question of the land policy on his motion, lie would take other means of bringing it forward. He would not wait for the introduction of the Land Bill. He then preceded to deal with the question of the native land policy. He pointed out that the recent return furnished to the Council showed that there were 7,407,000 acres of native lands, of which area he thought about two million acres were either occupied bynatives or let to Europeans. A further million acres would be necessary to make provision for the natives for all__time. Deducting these areas, there would be left 4,497,000 acres for settlement. This was a very different estimate from that of the Ministr, who held that only half a million acres of native lands would be available for settlement. The Native Land Department wo/u'd have to show much more vigorous administration than it had done, if anything of a satisfactory character was to be accomplished in the future. The great bulk of the native lands in the North Island were heavily timberclad, and it could not be expected that the natives would do much with them, and it was desirable that the Native Lands Court should without delay determine what lands the natives could efficiently cultivate and what was required for use of the Maoris and their descendants, after which the balance should be thrown open for settlement. The policy he had sketchd was the true policy, but the dream of the Native Minister ap peared to be to build up a vast Maori landlordism. The lion. T. KELLY seconded the motion .The colony, he said, could nut submit to millions of acres of land lying idle, while the demand for land was so urgent. The debate adjourned until Tues day, on the motion of the Hon. MacDonald. TRAINING SHIPS. The Bill was read a third lime and passed.

The Registration of Births Extension Bill and Opium Prohibition Bill were reported from Committee unamended and passed.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2.30. RIDDIEOSD'S TRUSTEES. The report of the Petitions Committee was rendered, rec.onimnding the petition of the trustees to tile favourab.e consideration of the Governing.

Mr \\ ILI'OR explained that Mr E. I'. Bunny and another were trustees lor a piece of land granted on certain conditions to the town of Peione. Their case was that whereas had a private individual been the purchaser of this land, the stamp duly would have been £7 101, that being a gift from a rich man, the sum of £l3O was levied. The Solicitor General, in advising on this case., had confessed to a doubt, and had given the tax collectors the benefit of it. Since then three judicial decisions on the duty leviable on the gift had remove! ail doubts on the subject. Two of these were colonial and the third was English. The tax had therefore clear.y been wrongly levied. The wealthy, Mr Wiit'ord urged, are chary of making gifts in this country, and the penalising of the practice was not likely to encourage it. He hoped the Govrnment would, through the Estimates, recoup this ill-advised levy. The Hon. J. CARROLL said tlie Government was prepared to consider the whole of the circumstances of the case.

the House adopted the report 011 the voices.. TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF COMMITTEES. I lie Hon. the PREMIER moved, that in accordance with Standing Order, a panel of two members be appointed to act as -temporary Chairmen of Cooinmittees when requested by the Chairman of Committees, this panel to consist of Mr Elatman and Mr Wood. He said compliance with th«' Standing Order would obviate difficulties which had proved most inconvenient in the past. The salaries for these positions would be, he concluded, provided for by the -Bill, adding that jt was not intended to increase any salary hitherto' paid. Mr MASSE\ thought it wrong to enforce a Standing Order that had fallen into desuetude, and considered the proposition of the Premier unusual and unnecessary, and he objected to the salary payment, as increasing the number of paid Parliamentaary officers on the Government side, and under the control of the Government, and he mentioned seven Ministers, the Chairman of Committee, and the Whips.

i'lie PREM|ER pointed in reply that the Standing Order is man datory, and that continuance Js no excuse for disobedience. He had to learn that the Chairman of Committees was under the control of the Government, and he denied that the Whips wen; paid with public money, and explained that the amount Jo be paid to the deputies would be tile same as before.

1 lie House divided: Ayes 44, noes 23, and the motion was carried.

ESTIMATES. In Committee, on Working Railways, ,61.750,000, Mr Allen complained that sheep are sojiic times lost in transit, and wanted to know the cause.

Messrs Wilford, Bollard, Arnold, and llornsbv pointed out the need for belter classification, the latter alluding to the ''widespread discontent.'' in the Department.

Air UTLKORD said that sufficient discrimination is not shown on the pay sheets between responsibility and 1 he freedom from it.

1 lie MINIS! LR said he was surprised to hear of the "widespread discontent, especially as he had never tound railway men backward in noising their grievances. lie explained that a classification scheme for the casuals promoted lo the permanent department hist year was gelling near completion. lie promised to consult his officers in the matter of wages and grading. lie deprecaled violent changes, and urged hon. members to bring' complaints to him railier than bottle tliem up for the House, and promised ihe m careful consideration and justice. Mr KIRKIiRI l)K raised a local traffic question.

Mr LAI'RKNSON advocated the cause of the men who had been 20 years on the casual list.

Mr 11 AN AN quoted from pav lists to show the need for alteration. Mr MASSKV voiced a local traflic grievance from lluntly, where the traflic is growing greatly. lie complimented the Minister on the further classification he had announced, lie urged the Minister to favourab'y conside] the ca.-o of the numerous stat ion masters of the service dialing smal 1 pay, ,{,i,So lo /.200 a year, working long hours, six in the mnning 10 eight ai night, and carrying heav, responsibility.

Mr BUDDO took tlip o anie line as

to the stationmastcrs, and complained of the shottage of trucks.

Messrs BOLLARD and POLAND objected to the low rat<' of pay in the case of the railway clerks. The MINISTER explained, in re ply, that the latter subject is large, and complicated by considerations affecting the railway employees and the general taxpayer, and promised that he would deal with it in the most liberal way that might be found open to him.

Mr J. ALLES referred to the superannuation question, and demanded the actuarial report on thy scheme of the London and North Western Kailway, which nobody seemed to be able to get, and which he was assured had been suppressed by the directors bocause it was unfavourable.

Ihe MINISTER did not think it right to go into that mater at the present time.

Mr HORNSBY urged that junior officers were given too much latitude, and wanted an improvement in that direction in an otherwise exceedingly well-managed service. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. Mr MASSEY suggested the use of motor carriages in connection with the railways. 'Mr WILFORD asked for some change in the constitution of the Appeal Board.

Mr LLL wanted the charges on the conveyance of racehorses to be raised and the wages of the railway men improved.

Mr FISHER thought the highly paid officials ought to produce better railway stations at Wellingtan and other places. Mr THOMSON found fault with 15 miles an hour on long lines as too slow.

The MINISTER explained that the constitution of the Appeal Boards had been adopted after very careful consideration, and that the speed of trains was the outcome of much care ful thought on the part of the experts of the service dealing with complicated conditions, and that motor cars have been ordered for the Auckland railways; that the building of better stations and the rise in the freight for racehorses would be kept steadily in view.

Mr HOGG complained of the want of footwarmers on the Northern lines, though the Southern were well supplied. fhe MINISTER said footwarmers had been ordered. Mr GRAY complanied of the smoke nuisance in tunnels, and the Minister said that instructions have been given to make an estimate of the cost of electric motive power for the Lyttelton tunnel.

Messrs 1-latman, Dillon, Remington, and the Hon. T. Y. Duncan voiced local train grievances. Mr HOG AN detailed from personal experience the anomalies of the classification system, which he was glad to hear the Minister say he was mending. He thought 5/ a day too little for a man of 20 years and Oft high.

Mr II.ERRIES compared the accidents on tho British and New Zealand systems: fatalities, one in 1015 in New Zealand, and one in 1447 in Biitain; injuries, one in 14 to 20 in New Zealand, and one in 150 in Britain.

The MINISTER explained that the discrepancy is due to the difference of cumputation. For Britain the reported accidents were confined to the rolling' stock, and no injury was reported that did not incapacitate the injured for five days and more, whereas in New Zealand the workshops were "included, and every ;n----jury was reported.

Messrs HALL and E. G. ALLEN voiced local train grievances. Mr THOMSON advocated an automatic system of points—(the Minister interjected that one is under consideiation.) and cheaper excursion tickets.

Mr BAUME complained that the mechanics in the servicp are paid a less minimum \han (hose outside. The item, £1.750,000, passed un altered at 5.50. . Class VII,, item Public Buildings. /07,3-- ; passed unamended, aftei some discussion.

Maintenance of roads, £25,000. Ihe MINISTER explained that this is for the maintenance of main roads hitherto maintained out of the Public Works Fund, which had been paid for the purpose last year £24,700.

Mr MASSEY congratulated the Minister on doing the right thing by making this transfer.

Mr ALLEN asked why the Minister did not go one step further and transfer the Ordinary roads. The MINISTER replied that the control of those roads, when finished, was with the local bodies, which have to keep them in order. I he item, after further discussion on complaints of reduced expenditure.passed unaltered.

Printing and Stationery Depart ment, .£41,888, Stamps and Deed Department £33,564, passed unaltered, after some discussion. Class X., Native Department. Vote (1), Native Department, £2145; (2) Native Lands Court, etc., £13,412; (3) Maori Councils, jfiicxjo; (4) Miscellaneous, £2220: total, £35,338. After a protest from Mr Ngata against tin- poor salaries. No. 1 was passed unaltered. No. 2 was the occasion of complaints and delays (Mr Merries) in setting up the boards, and against the appointment of judges to the Land Court without knowledge of the Maori language and customs (Mr Eraser). Mr J. ALLEN could not see how, with judges at £4OO a year, it was possible to secure the necessary foj- speed and accuracy in the Settlement of the great native problem. Reform had been promised for 20 years, and still it was "taihoa."

Mr Jennings and Mr Remington denounced the low salaries paid to men discharging large responsibilities. Mr Remington wanted to knowwhy last year's promises to buy large blocks of native land have not been kept.

The MINISTER replied that they have been kept, but they cannot be cut up and roaded for sett'ement iu a single year,

Mr I I IELD discussed native townships, which he described as merely areas he'd for speculative purposes. Mr NGA'I'A appealed to the Premier, as a business man, to adopt the principle () f paying good men to get good resu ts in a matter so im--1""" 1 ant as the basis of the land titles of the future. j| c warned liie Government that tiie Maoris were prepared to insist 011 efficient machinery before offering their lands for settlement.

A motion by Mr WIU'ORD to ,eP'Tt progress was lost by 33 to 20. On a question raised a s to whether members could refer to items in last years cphimn of the Ksttntates, the Chairman ruled that reference can only be made to tile supplies of the current year.

Mr MASSKV moved to report proStress in order to take the Speaker's opinion, and the motion was carried by 2X to 24. On the llo'use resuming, the Chairman of Committees slated tile case.