PARLIAMENT

Taranaki Daily News, Volume XLVII, Issue 81846, 13 September 1906, Page 3

PARLIAMENT

WEDNEDAY, SEPTEMBER 12. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The Council met at 2.30. Replying to a question, Hon. A. PITT stuied that with re gard to providing separate mstituli ns fcr imbeciles and epileptics now confined in mental hospitals, Mere was such a separate institution at Richmond and another at Wanganui. The Government, hmvver, were considering a scheme vi tie" extendi not the principle. Hon. J. D. ORMOND moved for a return of blocks of a thousand acres and over of native waste lands in the co'ony, so as to enable proper consideration of the measure promised by the Government for dealing with such lands, the return to set out what b'ocks are unoccupied and waste. TOWX DISTRICTS BILL. The Bill was committed. Hon. Mr SMITH moved a new clause, providing that a Town Board may, in anticipation of its current revenue, borrow from the bank by way rf overdraft, the amount so borrowed not to exceed the previous year's income. The clause was added, and the Bill reported as added to. FIREARMS ACT. In Committee, on the Firearms Act, the Hon. Mr GEORGE moved to make the age limit for the purchase of firearms or ammunition to 15 years instead of 16, as provided. This was agreed to. The provision making it illegal for a youth to carry firearms or ammunition was amended on the motion of the Hon. Mr Rigg, by eliminating the words "and ammunition." Hon. Mr GEORGE endeavoured to have the subsection imposing impiisonment for non-payment of a tine struck out. but was defeated by 12 to 7. and the Bill was reported with amendments.

The Council adjourned at 3.50. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2.30. Mr MASSEY gave notice of motion for the production of the names of the owners of properties of over ,£50.000 unimproved value. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS. In answer to questions, Ministers stated the question of anti-trust legislation is engaging the attention of t'ie Government. As to the railway men who went out on strike in 1890, and their request to have the time they served in the railway service previous to the sil ike count for superannuation purposes, the Minister regrets that it is not possible to make an arrangement such as that suggested. In the first place, it would be inequitable in its bearing upon the staff generally, inasmuch as it would give the men referred to an advantage over hundreds of other men who have not had their services determined at various times for different reasons, and, having re-entered the service, subsequent')- lost the benefit of their former time for superannuation. The fundamental principle of the railway superannuation fund was continuous service, and continuous serv.ee formed the basis on which the contiibution* were calculated. In re Mr Massty's proposal to have road metal carried free on the railways, roadmetal for the use of local bodies is already carried at a rate which is practically nominal, i.e., half-c'ass "Q" rate, with a minimum of 1c) per ton. This minimum rate operates for distances up to 27 miles, and is unrcmunerativc to the Railway Department. The concession of half rate was made to local bodies in ISQS, and has been largely availed of throughout the colony. It is quite impossible to further reduce rates. The question of getting phonogra phic records of Maoii songs, etc., is being considered. Hotelkeepers have been circularis throughout the colony, 'and informed that if they arc found selling tobacco or cigarettes on the statutory halfholiday a prosecution will fellow. The" proposal to take the various school cadet companies of the colony to the Christchurch Exhibition involves a heavy expenditure, and it is no. clear that a correspondingly large advantage, would be gained. There are still K ieater difficulties in providing for the transit and accemmoda lion of school children other than cadets. The question of the supervision of considerable bodies of chi'.dlen. even if the"'include only l.f the fifth, sixth, and seventh stand ards, is not an easy one. but the supervision must be provided for both on the journey to and from Christchurch, and during their stay at the Exhibition itself. Further, it is probable that the transport system of the colony will, in any case, be strained to accommodate ordinary visitors, and it is bv no means clear thatl \t j could bear the additional strain of conveying many thousands of school children. A Marconi installation would cost jCit,oon. and involve an annual expenditure of £2OOO. The Chathams will not be forgotten when wireless telegraphy is app : ied to outlying portions of the colony. The Government will !>:• glad to negotiate with Cape Colony for exchange of historical matter. It is not intended to introduce a Referendum Bill 'his session. In the matter ol the voucher wrapper brought up by Mr Fisher, the wiapper is nothing more than a used envelope from the Returning Oliver's waste-paper basket, which the writer of the artie'e in the Napier Daily Telegraph has confounded with the wrapper of the parcel of used ballotpapers of the whole electorate, which the Returning Officer forwarded to the Clerk of the House of Kc'il.esenta-

tlves. With respect to the New Zealand police holders of the Equitable Life Assurance "Society of the United States, the Pub'ic Trustee_ holds securities to the value of £50,000 on account of tie above society. That deposit is held in trust by him. firstly, to -ecure policy holders whose policies are rcgiv-red with him under

;le provi-ions of "The Life Assur--111.0 Companies Am, 1X7;,." and, si'end.v. -übj'cl to the foregoing, foi .'„. benefit - i' tin' p-)lie\ holder:, pan

p.is-11 of die sccicn. The provision made in the Act or 1X7.5 for the regis tration of policies was repealed b> Act No. 37, 1K95. =0 that the registered policies are a continually diminishing number, and will disappeai entirely in the course of time. Tim

is all ' ilif information tlv Givcmnvnt can supply with r-gaid to » l'«" ,pi.-ii..n. I'- is added that n ra.d hi- undesirable t.i give tin- above policy holders po.ichs in tin- Government Office, except in the ordinary way. .. Where members of the Railway Department invent or compl'te any .ippiianc' at their own expense, they a:.- i»-fii.i-t.-(! to paien' tie- same without but where the

my nil-n i- woik-d out'at the expen- ot 'he n-partmi-n'. the apptcv.d ot the yen 1.1 manager i> required to b« ..biaiii'd b.-I'oie any patent is applied for. EVENING SITTING. The House re-ume<! at 7.30. BALLOT CARD BILL. .Sir W. STEWARD moved tie- second reading, explaining the detailwhich have been alieady publi-h'd. He (-'aimed that informal \ntcs and mistakes in voting would h-- impus--,b!>- under the me.iMit., and the l.nal counting of vons much cxpodwd. Tie Bill tin- '••..<! a second time 011 the voices.

1 KGISLATIVE COrXCIL ELECTION BILL.

Sir W. STEWARD moved lie sc.nd reading. He declared that, as r-nthnii the Council was hi- certain !,,.„„„, J,,,., >.,!,!'. he wou'd ask the iV.ll-e 1 . ac-.pl i'is piopoaU to mend it. In w-.|. h- hat! obtained -, -econd reading for a Bid for mendin,, the'Cotin.i' by piaeinn the eh-c----to 11 ~f it- in'-übcis in the of :!„. Ij.ii.-' ni R.-'-preseniatives. That I lirl ~ca- lluov.n 'in at th- third r-ad-iii.j Mage bv the vet'- of tie- Ministry ' . f't|,.. day. Mining the dis, u-siun a i pronosa' had ben !"-t by a majority I ,if l,ne for making the General Asj s. tnhly tlio <;ecioral college. This principle had been put forward in a Bill bv the late Sir Fjederick W'h't-

ator, in iSSS. lu 1905, he( Sir \V. Steward, taking the hint of tlu- above division, had brought forward his Hill on tilde lines, and obtained a second reading by 44 to 2(1, Jli'.isrs McNab and I'owlds voting with the majority. He claimed their voles on the present occasion. lie alio ciaiiued tie' Premier's, referring to a past >piec!i of the lion, gentleman'*. The present .strength ul tile Council was 34. By November next six members would depart by effluxion of time, and by this tini'- next year one more would retire from the same cause. In June next the suength of the Council would fali automatically to 2;. Of these, 10 would be life life members, and the rest would retire l-'J' KifiJuxron of time, by iqoq and iijio. The time was, therefore, opportune for undertaking the alteration he proposed.

Mr ELL did not see the necessity for a second chamber. He did hot think the Legislative Council carried out the will of the people, but he would support the second reading. Hon. Sir J. WARD comp.imented the mover on his moderation and persistence. If he remembered right, the speech of his to which the mover had referred was directed against the proposal for the abolition of the Upper House. For his own part, he could not remember in the course of a long experience that the Council had ever opposed the will of the peop'e- Wen- this masure carried, there would be a long course of unsettling agitation, and a great difficulty of obtaining the Royal assent. The Council was the only check on hasty legislation, and some check was decidedly necessary. The measure dealing with its constitution, which had passed the Lower House, had been thrown out by the Council, and public opinion had changed about that measure. The .elective system had proved disastrous wherever tried in connection with the second chamber. He was astonished at the protest of the member for Waimate against the members of the Government giving their votes in a'nv direction they liked ; the fact, of course, being that they had the right to do so without being subjected to the dictation of every member who happened to hold a strong view on any particular question. He urged that the system of nominating the members of the Seco'nd Chamber would always' have the support of public opinion so long as good appointments were made. The Leader of the Opposition had recently urged the application of the Hare system. If that proposal became law, there wou-'d be confusion of voting, and many voters would be voting for memßers of both houses when logically, from the representative point of view, there ought to be only one. Moreover, the wealthier sections of the community would monopolise the seats, which ought to be open to a'l. In the multiplicating of the diverse opinions on this subject, he thought the best plan would be to leave the nomination in the hands of the Government, which had the right to represent the people. He would add that, instead of diversity of opinion, there must be a proved charge of improper constitutional behaviour, and there was no foundation for such a charge, violently and frequently as it had been put forward. This fact would tell when any change came to be asked for in the controlling constitutional quarter. He reminded the House that there was no case in which any member of the Council had acted with dishonour in his ririvate or public capacity; but even if there were, that would not be a reason for making a revolutionary constitutional change. He would repeat that if good appointments were made, the Council would go on for years amicably doing good work iii conjunction with the Representative House, both beinjr free from the deadlocks which characterised the systems to which the advocates of the change desire to approximate. In conclusion, he would sav '<L('t we!! alone." Mr MASSEY approved of the improvement made in the Bill, w hi c h would obviate ah danger of election by caucus, and secure a qualified addition to the electorate. The Premier was content to leave well alo'ne. He, for his part, was not with him. He would vote for the more demcratic proposal represented by the Bill. He was in favour of the bi-camera! syst.-m, and he failed to sec why there should be deadlocks here merel'v because they were known elsewhere, lie advocaied a modification of the Hare .system as likely to abolish loeai influences, and provide the best class of men. He denied that poor men would be excluded undr it. lit) was glad to see this Hill, because he feai"d the Government would reinforce the Council with a numEer of appoint ments; he hoped, at all events, they would be good ones. He behoved that those who make laws for the people should Be elected by the people, but he would vote for the second rading. Mr BARCLAY urged the bi-cam-eral system had been a failure wherever it had been tried.

Mr MAJOR denounced the sing'e chamber system as shattered by historical verdict.

Mr FLATMAN complimnntd the mover on the improvement in his Bili, and advised him to wait till next year and bring in a better one still.

Mr MALCOLM suggested a r n electorate composed of members of the Lower House who have been three time;, e'ected.

Mr FISHER preferred election by the people, with periodical retirement of members, followng the lines of the Bill introduced by the Hon. Mr Wigram into the Council last year, and rejected bv that body. The lion. Mr HALL-JONES found objections to all the proposa.s made, and would vote against the Bill. Mr THOMSON said the mover had given no reason for the Bill. He would vote for the second reading to show his respect for the election principle, and he would then insist on finding some other form of elections than the very bad one embodied on the Bill . Mr T. MACKENZIE thought it was entirely a question of the men chosen. He did not care if it was election or selection, so long as the right men were chosen. Mr 11ANAN did not like a Second Chamber and liked Die Bill. Mr MANDER objected to the nomriuuive system.

The lion. Mr McOOWAN urged that outside election would merely duplicate tiie House of Representatives. Sir W. STEWARD replied to the various criticisms and insisted that the appointments of recent years wini.il haw !>'en much better if they had been made uv l'.iruiuciii. He canned that public opinion was gieatl) i-M-ii'd about this question. 11 this liili pa-sea, he pointed ~ui that en the lGth October, the two llou.-es would, befoie ihc prorogation of Parliament, have the privilege oi ehcting the members of the Coun-

til. The House divided on the second reading. The full.wing was the division list:—A ves (34-: Altke.ll. Arnold, Barber, llaume. Bennett, Bollard, liuddu .C'tivin, Ell, Fisher, l-'lalman, Gn-cnslade, llanan, Hardy, I [ernes. llogan, Jennings, Kirkbride, Lauronson, T. M.KonzJc, MaophorMJII, Malcolm. Mand'-r, Massey, Xgata, Poland. Poa.!u, R'-id, Rhodes, Siallworthy, Steward Tanner, Tliom son. Uiltv. Noes (241; J. Alien, Ber.la., C.UI-..U. Duncan. Field, l-owids. Graham.' Hall. Hall-Jones. Ilo K g, Houston, Kidd, Liuvry, Mc(i.,wan, K. McKc-nzi-, Mcl.aclilanJ M. Nali. Mi-is, I'.nala, Kcmi'ngo.n, R <>'.-,. Sedclon. Ward. Wood NOXIOI S Mr K. .MACEE.V.IE ni'iv.'d th" second fading. Messrs Field, Witty, F'aiinan. liuddo. Hun. McNal). and Jennnigs spoki-, punting out possible jiuendmcnts. 'Flic in* ver leplied, expressing his ■ roadin.'--!.> ~. ci-pi 1 easonabie suggestions, and ilie Hi I wan-ad a second tune 011 the voices. Th.- I 10ii...' adjournal ,u 11.10 p.m.