TEACHERS' SALARIES' COMMISSION.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume XXIII, Issue 118, 11 June 1901, Page 2

TEACHERS' SALARIES' COMMISSION.

(Continued.) Mr. Spencer's examination:— To Mr Hill: The present staffing of the Central icbool was one headmaster, two male assistants, and two female assistant*. Standard VI. was in charge of a female assistant holding a Dl certificate, and receiving ,£llO a year. V. was iu charge of a male assistant, holding a D2 certificate, and receiving £2OO a y6flr. The ltdy was teaching about tweoty pupils, while the olhf-r had a much 1-trger attendance, standard IV. was in chargo of a male nts'stant, and Standard 111. a female tssis'ant, while Standirds IT. und I. were each under two pupil teach»rs. The average attendance last quarter was 483. This disposition was not sit-sfactory to the headmaster or himself. Under the conditions existing at the school at the time he did no', think tha sdariei were out tf place ; and he explained that the female assistant was isking S andard VI. for a time, owing f o the inability to make otlnr srrang - m nts. This had since beeo altertd. In ordit ary cases he thought first nwlf and Fema'e assistants should receive approximately the same salary, and the fiisS should get about the same as he headmaster of a school cf 70. He wculd put an assistant in schools of <>v r 40 whether tho head teacher were m-.le or f male. He ap, roved the present moie of g teachers,! icd preferred technical skill when making a selection. He would not favour altsrirg tho present c'assificafciou ti a system of one class with two divisions—senior end juuior. ToMr. Smith : Hecou'd rot express the difference of cost of living in various parts of Tamil* ki. Ha somet mrs gave the highest marks to a tea<her who miy not have been in chirge of a schoo', eo long as he was *at ; sfi.d us 11 lii-« or herprofi ion y. To Mr. Weston : He did not think it wois'd militrte against theinsti:uion of a co'o.'.iil scile of sahries and stuffing if ha l«ft a compe'ent teacher s ilely i'i charge of a s:ho)l of 50, even the ugh h • h d said he v. ould put in an assistant at 40. He did not advocate leaving any classes' in charge of pupil te.phes except fourth year teachers. Boy pupil teichers did nt oft-n letve th 1,/seivice. Pupil t 'schers were not over-work' d, but he would admit they were hard woike 1. Th--y should work siy four hours a day aod have some instruction from the headmaster during chool hours, instead of, as at pres.-nt, outside of the houis. He thought a higher citifievte should be exacted from t <achers applying for the higher schools, He did no; think the introduction qf manual aod tech-.i' al instruction would effect tbe syllabus, although in would require some altera tbu in its arrangement. Manual was is n ceasary as any other instruction in order to train tha facul ias. Under the present system he thought pupil teachem tnintd here' would approximate very closely in efficiency those trai ing sahoots in other distriots of the co ony. There was cot a relieving staff hero, as the expjn*e was too g. eat, He was prepared tj admit that training colleges di i good work for education in New Zetland, ar.d would adyoc to the establishment of more of them, To Mr Hoghen: It was of the greatest importance to train all of a chill's powers, and if b ; s hand and eye werd 11 (fined, it would as"'st to deve'op" the brain. A fpecialist wculd be.required to eaj exactly what course of lr.iining should be adopted. The ks'ituticn of a colonial scale would cause a difficulty at first in fil.irg assistantdiips. Thei e were some efficient 'etcher* out of employment, but nune in ttii-i d strict. It might be fair to limit the time i-i whi,h tho Lew sys era should be brought into operation. Boards should be able to make the transition in five year', though und, r ordinary circumstances it could bo dote in four. His ilea regirding >up:rannuafcion was that a co'onial t-ystera of salaries woul I rot be compile unless provis'on were included for thi". Witho'it the colonial scale of salari-s a colonial scale of superannuation wiuld be impossible. He would sugg st giving Boards capitation on the proportionate attendance of each school, and let them di>tribute it as they i bought fit. Regarding grants for training in school and t chncl work, these should be given on th>> same principle. He thought if a teicher were sick and a relioving teacher were sent it.woul i meet the rasa of sick leave if the t. ache 's pay went on. He could not give an id*a ■ f how many relieving taacbfrs were required. When relieving teachers went to a scbod he had considerable trouble in piekingup the work owing to the e being no register kept of the wjrk done. It would be a disadvantage to leave certificates out in recommending n col ,nial sc<le of salaries. Mr. Hogg: If h.d two candipate3 for a school; one wth a firstclass uuiversity education, and holding an A cA'b'ficite, and another with a J) certficate, but p?ssasßßsd of excellent all round expert n e of school management, which would you appoint ? Mr. Sjjt-ncer: The one with the D certificate

Continuing, he thought ihat in the larger and better positions the teachers raost'y hell D certificates. He did no 1 ; attach bo much itnpoitance to literacy attainment?, tlmt waa a d'sirable quilifiea-ioo. He would not jecommend a young man entering the toaching pivfd.s'.on tj go in wholly for a univ.ii aity knowledge. He would place c-kiil in teaching firrit, but would uot ovtrlook unhersi y qualifications. The system in v gue in this di-trier, was sitisfactory in that it wis improving the c n<iit ; on of teacher*). The staffing if schools of 40 was no!, sufficient, at p esent. Soh->oW of 41 were I en itled to a firs'-yeir pulil teacher. I The co9t of a school of 150 und*r the proposed system would bi equal to that of 250 at prese'it. This could not be uVe herein an increas d capitation of 10->, but it might te on £l. Small jcho Is in the district had iccreas9d during late years, and there w,s only one cise that he koew of that nvght ha don.3 away wi'.h, and this would i.,fliot considerable h lrdship on a numb.r of j ch-ldivn. Winn new schools were being built he was not always asked to furoish a report. T«e country schools g-ne ally Buffered most in to irregularity of attend mce. luip<oved r ads would do more for the a'-tt ndanco than a truant inspector, but both would !still be wantel. I'. was bitter t) ir.crema tin silaras offered, even if the number.) of pupil teacheis wer reduced, though it might; be bid fo- ° tima if the Boird could not get as ist" an's from otht-r district. \ Mr Ho.'e: Wuu'd the fem lo teachers have 1-ft to get mai rie 1 h d they b 'en fiven fair an 1 r»a ona'ile cba xes uf getting go id salaties ? Mr Spencer: Yes, I think so. Then ehould you not piy them the [same a3 the males ?—I don'c know, - Do you notget p'enty of applications

for schools of 150 and upwards? -Yes. Do you think injury would ari»e for men if women were allowed to cornpets ?—Yes. How? Do you not think it would be the other way? Would not the cheaper offer be taken.—No. Butj. if one applicant were a man with a family, and another a single woman, and the pay was the same to each, would not the man be taken ? Very often they prefer the woman. Have you known of any cises of the kind ?—Yes. Mr Hogg: Well, I'm f urprieed. , A member ; There might have bser some bachelors oa the committees (Laughter). E. 6. Allsworth, member of Elucv tion Board, said it was a trui-tin in Taranaki that everyone was in favour of a colonial scale. At present theii finances w«re so starved that the Board could not pay teachers adequately. A i olonial scale would improve the condition of teachers. When dealing with the question of a colonial scale a difficulty was opened up, which loomed larger in bis mind after hearing th' evidence givn on the previous diy. It was that of finance in relation to the question of how the salaries were to b* increased without involving additional colon ; al expenditure, and hj« t;ok ii tint this was a matter which the Commission would have to Cflncider. In Taianaki they had ben obliged to alljust the salaries according to the amount of the grant receivf d, and thi» bad been done wtih as neara'.sers of justice as the Board could ariive at. He belkved that in comparison with other districts the Taranaki teachers were considerably undcr-p.id. The difficulty in Taranaki was there being 60 many small non-paying schools It was very easy to adjust a seale of salaries if there was plenty of money In introducing a celoiml ecar'e be t ok it that the object of the Department was to secure the greatest efficiency at the lowest cos*:, c msistent with a living wage, while the teachers desired freedom bf promotion, security of tenure, or position, equality of payment, and a superannuation scheme. He strongl) favoured both inspectors and teachers placed under the control o' the DepirtmenV whereby much of the friction which at pesent existed would be avoided, and many of the disadvantages under which teaehers suffered would ba removed. F ovisiou should, however, be male for l>c.lly training pupil teachers so tha*. children of parents in Taranaki would have the same chance as tbosa of other districts. Under the prts<mt sjsttm not more than 20 per cent, of the pupil teachei s trained by the Board remained in its service, because the salaries of teachers were toe low to be an inducement. Tie cost of the finished teacher was, after four years training, an expe> siv< luxury; at the same time he sh uld oppese pupil teachers being induced to come in from other districts. A good deal had baen said ab'ut the cos 1; of living in various parts of theolony. Be did not think the Commissi n neid trouble about that as he thought, th . cost of living varied as much in Taranaki itsilf as between any p rt of the. c ilooy. O »ing to bad roads tie cs'. of* living in the bask bl >cks was very high especially in the winter teas >n. In fact the condition of teachers wa« practically on the same footing as the po3tal and other services. Some ha'J good places and o'hers not so good. In confining theirattntion ti teachers sahries the Oommisson was only scratching the surface of the question. The whole eduottional system nquired to be re'olu ionised. An important ques'ion that should be considered was the waste < f mo >ey and energy caused by overlapping; distric's such as in the case of V\ nqganui and Tarsin <ki, and he quoted a casa by way of illustration, stating that t! e va'e of affairs was partly due to the war and partly to cettlement condi ioas, but re-adjustment would tend t> economy and would be of great advantage to bo h di-tricts. In connection with this a burning qu s ion was the matter of higher reduction, unl it relation to this he complimented Mr Hogben on tho splendid scheme he had brought forwa'd in aid of Dis'rict High Schools. High srho Is many cases (amply afro*, in additiun to which they compated with the piima'y echo 1", ard a great waste of funds resulted. H-* advoca'ed a mi-d' fied syi-tem of Bo ids nnd Committer, and suggested a Ooun il of Education being constitu'ed consisting partly of ileetiv>>, and party of nominated merabi'), such Council to act as an advisflry Board to afs : st the Minis'er of Edu?ation. Such a syst m would enabls committe stj be established throughout tha colony to act as ■' buffers " between the department and the people.

Mr. Mr. McKerzn: To unite T*ranoki with Wanganui would make the distr'ct too larg*. Informa'ion fnru e of suggest Colonial Advisory Board won'd d u pnd som s what on the arrangements nude locally, from which such information should eraana'e. T* ought the Depirtment in Wellington ould be supplied with all necessary irfoima tion as to.fitness of applicants for appointment. Thought it was quite right that after pupil t"achtrß bad completed their course they should hire an equal show of obtaining appointments in any district. Was opposed to the fortnightly Biard meetings. Considered to chers should obtain promotion on their nrri's There should be fair payment to all fu'ly qualifi -d teachers, To Mr. Davidson: The of a colonial scale of stuffing was very difficult to deal with. In carrying ou 1 - a hrge colonial scheme thn Fame amount of Utitode was not likely tr be allowed as existed at present, unless sprcial provision was made for such latitude. The educational system required to ba compl-tely reDigJoised. A colonial sc ile of staffing and salaries would help in that direction. The Boards would be so restrict!' under different fchame'thatitwou'd bs better to do away with Bo\rds.

To Mr. Stewart: Thou Jit f*m»le teachers were vi.ry efficient for snail schools, but the schoo's requ'red male teachers. Equal rat<-g of pay in tbe large echools wou'd s -on drive the females out of the fHd. To Mr Luk^: Could not suggest a means of ratifying the WanganuiTaraoaki district-, a<* it was a difficult mattsr to force people ti change their educitional d ; stri t. Money uselessly spent was not well spent, and tbe'efortplacing teachers under the enjtro' of the Dpartment would be mo e fa fisfac'ory thao the pre : eots\stom. To Mr Hill: What he'intended to jonvey was that sufficient wis spe'«t in the ci'lony for education if properly matmgad, but at present * good deal of m _ n-y was wast d - fo instmre by overlapping of di»tric';i> ) such as he hid me-rtione'l. Tf there were proper organisation the present education grant would suffice to do much mire than at present, including better provision for scholarship and ex-

luhit:ot>f>. He considered thr committees eonldadministerthellslkl grant for school committees very well with out Boards, therefore there would be no further use for Boards, If the powers of committees were enlarged, better men would be attracted. He was not in favour of entrusting educational function! to county councils. County boundaries were not suitable for educational district boundaries, as «»s illustrated in a case he mentioned. Pupil teachers in their fifth year were not allowed to remain in the same school where 'hey rect-ived their training, but were s a nt to other schools for experience. Tho Board would like to send all 'pupil teachers to either the Centra or Stratford School for trailing, hut could rot afford it. It wou'd |bi preferable to do this thai te have pupil teachers trained elsewhere. To Mr Lethbridge; The Beard's building fund was inadequate. This was owing, not only to new buildings but te enlargements. The preseat upkeep of the buildings ware not as sa* if factory as it should be. The Board was now asking the Department for £15,000 for utyenl requirements. This did not include many necessary work«.

To Mr. Weston : Did not think the reduction of syllabus would affeoft tbequ stion of eeo-omy. It wm the efficiency ef the teicber and his ability to overtake the work, that was required. Thought the same qualifications should ba required to admit pupils to High Schools as to District H'gh Benoofch Did net consider Education Board* * n«ressity. They had too many Board*, all meaning expense to the Colony. The abolition of Boards would net c*use any difficulty in tho cue of sickness of teachers. Boards often ha** difficulty t3 find relieving teacher*, as there were very few in th* district. The D>partm-nt would know all unemployed teachers, and wi-h telegraph and railway there should he Bo delay. The position would be similar to that of the Postal and Telegraph Departments. Did not think dairy ioduatry injured the schools. In many place* schools followed the erection of dairy factories. Thought the tern "school attendance "-ehould be defined. Did net think there was any dinger of political influence; mora sitiafactorv to teacher* if Inspectors were under Department; a change was often desirahK Education Boards bad no o.tion but to keep Inspector or toucher* on or drain th' m. Considered pnpil toaokers wall educated here. Taranaki teacher* and children would compare favourably wih any other district; results proved this. ! To the Chairman: Did not eonsMor cost of educat-'on, nearly half a ailjien, should be increased, Thought it renrgan'sed so es to provide for ♦ducaiion frrm the primary school to tho Unite*" s'ty there was sufficient mon«y. Scop* of Commission should be enlarged to deal with the whole system. Would Meet committees on the broadest possible bssi", v ; z, by the people. Mr. H. Dimpsey said be bad no statement to make.

fin reply to Mr. WVston he raid bo was h> admaster of the Ceuti*! School and represented the Teacher's Institute Hiarchool avenged 450t0-WO. Hit pupil tuohera were doing more work than they should do. They were not receiving the Rome advanttges as pupil teachers io Otago and Canterbury. Thii was a fvut drawback ia after life, Approved of their doing half-a-day's work and get'ing half-aday's instruction. Believed everyone was in favour of the colotral scale. There wis ft feeling of injustice regarding the present system. The colonial scale would" induce b»ttw teaeb»rs \» cms to Taranaki and increased effin-ncy and better taachiog would result. Thought teachers flenerallv wer* sa'isfied with the a^Tninis f ra'ion of Education Boards. His own opinion was that he preferred it. If teachers were under direct Government on'rol he f-ared political influonca might bis u*ed. Personal influence tod, very little to dowith'the appointments made by the Board, There was considerable difficulty in fillling ra<*ar.cies as ther« were very few t.< aoV-e-s out of emnl yment in the dist i"*. Thorn chonll *v> a tyrem of jre ,; ' vine frachers. ITn 'ad turne'ant Rome very good p ipil teachers, but height there s'ouH be a training college. Thought a special grant should he given »o est'Wish a training school s < a« to eiva the pupil teaihers hers the «im a chanci as in other dis'rictg. He favo'irai the p-opoeal to bring the colonial scile int-> ore-atnn # in four years. To Mr McKe'n2 ; e: He could not say at what point the work of head-matter of country 'schools en l ! flrat assistants •nft p-obiblv in a echo 1 of abeot 175. He thought the min ; nu n salary should b * £IOO. The dap >r ment would not have th« *ime local kr owledge as the pre'eot Bnudg. Had no experience of the syato n < f co'lei'ins and driving children tosrhoil, or of half-time schools. Thought a superonuition fund would he supported, He U. luv»d in a oolonial c'aspifirat'on.

To Mr Davidson: Would like to set a training school similar to tbe one at Ntpier fstabVshod. Did net know of the Melbour< e ajr-tim of seheUrships. Thought a propwl to establish four such trnnlrg schools would be good. According to «h* proposed scale hit' schol woull suff r. He approved in •he reduction in the number of pnpil teachers Did not approve the alternating male a< d female ussiatadts. The first • wo assi-rants in schools of 800 sheuld be ma'es. The average womtn could not deal with large classes at well as a man

To Mr S ew*i t: Teacher* were very dissatisfied with the present system, and con id <r«d the colonial wale the on'y wey of rectifying th* evils of tkat system, lie did not consider the question of tlio cost of living e hould be con--■idpred. To Mr. Gilfedder: The Dunklin sca'o of sal iriee anl staff are vety much in favour of feachers. Dutydiir gave an assi<t*nt at 51 and T*ra»aki one at 71. His first assistant got £220; under the co'oninl scale wsuldon'y get £2lO ; did rot appr ve of a male thenar in small FchroV. Thefewing teacher was no ftps'stanon to tho teicher; the redue ion of £lO would bt a fa r thing io the case suggested. Inspectors shonl 1 bejunder cent ol Department. T> M-. Hill: Considered himself quite o mpet<nt t-> tak* a larger sohoel than h s own. Considered a D certificate good enough for most schools. Did not corsid r a graduate neceunry in a p-imary sohrol; Did not know them was only one cetificate in England. To Mr. Hogben: The making of deduction* appeared tj show that fhe lowt-r certificated tocher* were not Hirr.,l. Ho umU'tntwl »h> poVcy wo.ild be n.ttl d by Parliament at >nie. Tn* four yca-s to give Boards i re ti bring the sys'em into operation was r asoßabte. Favoured Boards having the option of employing male or female in certain o<ses and one assistant or two pupils; this should givf

Sufficient elai ticity. This being all the evidenc?, the Commission adjourned as already reported SITTINGS AT WANGANUI. | A PATHJCTIO INTERRUPTION. (PKB PBKSS ASSOCIATION ) Wanganui, June 10. The Teachers' Salaries Commission commenced its sittings to day. The witnesses examined were Mr Bridge, Chairman of the Wanganui Education Board, and Dr. Bmythe, Chief Inspector. Mr Bridge was opposed altogether to the proposed colonial scale. ' In his opinion it was merely gtttiog' the thin edge of the wedge inVo cen- i tralieethe control of the schools, which was most undesirable. School Beards were in a bettei position to judge t>s to the staffing and talarirs of tehools in their districts. He advocated a s'iding scale of from £5 to £3 10s capitation per head, which would he much preferable to the fixed ■mount proposed. By the proposed -scale several teachers in the Wanganui Education District would have their salaries reduced. He held that a ma'e teacher should receive a higher salary thanfemalep, for the reason that it was necessary to induce youtr-s to enter the lacrira. Mr. Bridge thought more funds should be given for building teach- ■ eta' residences Dr. Smyrhe urged that a sum of money should be set apart for training primary and even secondary tchool teachers. He was in favor of establishing ene or more training alleges where pupil teachers might b's tent. Inspectors sbou'd have the power of re cemmendiDg to the Department that the status of a teacher should be lowered as well as raised, and he thought it would be a very good thing if Boards had power to transfer teachers. He was in favour of a colonial scale of j salaries; but he bad not considered the question of a graduated scale of capita-] ton, and did not knew if it would solve I the difficulty. I While the Commission was sitting it wae announced that Mrs Bridge, wife! of the first witness, had died, and the Commission thereupon adjourned as a mark ef sympathy. TEACHERS INSTITUTE ADJOURNS. Wasoanui, June 10. The annual conference of the Teachers Institute was to have opened here this evening, but was adjourned on account i of the death of Mrs Bridge, wife of tbei Chairman of the Education Boird.