ANNUAL LICENSING MEETING.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume XXIII, Issue 118, 8 June 1901, Page 2

ANNUAL LICENSING MEETING.

The annual Licensing Meeting for the Taranaki district was held by Mr. R. L. Stanford, S.M. (the licensing authority), at the Courthouse on Friday. The Couit was thronged, it being I evident that more than usual interest was at 1 ached to the meeting. In addition to the members of the local bar, which was very strongly represented, thete were present Inspector Gillies and Commissioner Tunbridge. Mr. Stafford, S.M., opened pio;e dings by delivering the following address :

I propose offering a few remarks at this annual meeting ef a more geceral charjcterthan is possible when sp cific Cifes have to be dejlt with, but I sfcall confine my atten'ion principally to the operation of the licensing law ia Tarambi. The great drink question is one which has engaged my attention fat some 38 years, during a considerable portion of which I have had something to say to the control and administration of our licensing laws. I feel tint I speak with the authority that can only bo derived from a lengthened and varied experience during which my opinion on various points has natuiall) changed in soma mpects, though ii< i ha ma : n I find myself more strongl) than ever of opiuinn that the best solu tion of the pi oblnaa is to be foutid in s strict administia ion of licensed homes distributed according to popu'ation andi the requirements of travellers. ' But fi'st perhaps I eught to note that I thiuk'the conduct and conditio, of the licensed houses in this pirt of Tarataaki is exceedingly good, and compares favourably with the othe parts of the colony with which I am best acquainted. This is net to s*) hat th re bave been no offences committed. I do not for amommtsup p. si tbat because breaches of the law tiro not made the subject of cjurt that therefore no breaches oc:ur, but I believe that speaking generally th licensed houses here are as a whole, well conduced. Du ing ths past year improvem-Ji.ts or additions have be»n in.de to the White Ha t in Ne* Plymouth, at the Rahotu Hotel, and to both houses at Oputake, and the ne dt> of travillers RLd tourists have b>rn studied and better provision made for ti.eic entertainment and comfott. 1 may here point out that licensees wi'' do wel to acqu.i t themse ves with the undrr the Health Act of lust year, which wero gizetted Of April 18th. Amongst other jrovi»ions there is ooe that in ev.ry bedion there shall be 750 cubic feet of air fsi voiy adult occupying if, and I em iw«re trom personal inspection thit in several hot: Is in this distrct m»ny of, the bedro ms will have to be n tered or rebuilt before this requirement is satisfied These regulations come in'o force at such times and in such plac ■> us tbe Minister by notice in the Gazette may direct, but I do to" think they ute yei. io forca h*re though n doubt they will be sion. T travellers such regulations will be ver advantageous, and it is for th's cl«s especially that hotels should be provided. It is not creditable to the 'colony tbat owing to a variety of causei our legislation should so imperfec'ly provide for the extension of lioer s'd houses as settlem> ut and : popula tion iucrease. I have no hvita tion in saying that liconses are wanted at present at five different places in northern Taranaki. Two evils have, it setms to me, been created by the legitlttion which prevet,ted th* normal increase ef hotels beciuse in times past the itcreate had been ab normal. To crystallise the condition of things which existed in 1893 was a' odcs to grant a most va'u ible mow p;>ly to a few, and tha 1 ! «ithou" a .y con ar.d at the simo time to place the temptation to br>ak the law by sly-grog selling before tbose who would have had no temp'ation to buy or sell slyly if a licensed house was to be found wh re their legitimate appet ite might be Fatiefie'. And here 1 desite to interpolate a word or two.in rega-d to a matter concerting myself. A few months since I read in a Wellington piper that a deputation had waited ou the Premier tj c mp'a : n o' certiin woid< whiish it was a'l ged were used by mo en tbe Bench at Stratford. The«e woids were quoted thus, " Those who oppo ed the introduction of licenses in the Stiathmore district were as much to hlnme as the s'y-grog sellart. and oughs. to l e r part of the p c nalty of the fine or imprisonment." I eioipl; desire to take this opportunity of Buying that I did not use the words thu asciibed to m>>, and to rem nd Mr Ifitt " that it is re: t .in th.it the causof temperance, ho'y though it br, cmnot te adv.xtcod by nf the •ir,ill more sacivd claims oftiuth." 1 regard the question of thu inertase i>( licensed houses ta one which conc rns the residents in a given locality vorj iittl?, and ttavoilers and especially commerciil travellers very much. While no doubt the people generally ought to be direcly consulted on th question, increase or no increase of liwi.se, it is difficult t>) find any good reason why the p oplj in any small area should bave the light to determine that in that area trave'lo's should or should not have the conv nitjnee of a licensid house at to stay. If Licensing Diiiricts were madb very much larger than they now are the existing an >maly ? ould, in s me measure, be corr cced. I do not propose to say anything on the subject of granting licenses in the King Country besaute £ have not travailed through that district, and without travel'ing through it seems to me itnpos-iible to judge whether licenses ought or ought not to be granted there. It is, however, interesting to observe in connecthn with local option that various organizations in all parts of tha colony have expressed a strong opinion that no licenses should be granted in the King Country. It is difficult to see where the piinciple of local option comes in when resident* in Dunedin or Wellirgteu are p epired in catclava assembled to decide the ques iun of 1 cens" or no license iu the King Country. The element of the locality in optio . teems to be abandon d, and a wilur, possibly a w.'.e", principle invoke-!. If indeed the opinions of vaiious orginizations on the subject cf tbe Ki< g Country licenses is to be regtided ns » sign of changing opinion ou the subject of locil optic n as we k ow it, I for one should gladly welcome the ohanga; for it is now extctly 20 years siLce th < t principle was introduced into the Statute Book, and he would bo a bold man who could say that the two de.oades of experi<snci bave proved Satisfactory. In some distiio'f, kr I havj pointed out, i herj is a ci i • g , for license* wtiero theie .re no- o, while therj are o hers iu which > r duction in numhew is badly tequiroil. There has been no genet al and combined eilort to adjust licenses to the needs of the travelling public, either oa a basis of population or otherwise, The Howling election bas g-nftMllyr*

t'dved »t*e'f into a ffcrugle between (he to\.de which dtni.ea te continue to exist, and the party who desires that no liceLS.B at all should be granted. The public, and especially the travelling public, is but little considered. And in connection : with this I may point out tint that ve y considerable body of persons whose business requires tbem to live <*t hotels from January to December ([ refer, of course to commercial tiave'lerc, although po s°ssing special p.ivilcges as r.gards voting for numbers <f the House t f Representatives, are cot allowed these piivilegei in voting for members of Licensing Committees. The men, that is, who know most about licensing matt'rs are practically disfranchised, while loral residents, who perhapa never enter a licens d bouga at all, are the sole arbiters. Whil«, however, it is easy to criticise end find fault, it ia much more difficult to suggest the methods of improvements, but to that I now proceed. When I have seea the crime and misery and want produced by the ezteßsivu use of alcohol I have often wished tbat I could see eye to eye and believe as tfcey believo who think that p ohibition is the true remedy—l wou'd indeed now accept; that cure if I could b liove it posgibl-, but Ido not. Thcra are regions of life on which the law cannot set, domains in our social og.mism in which coercion is impossible. Given a condition of things where no small prop:rtion of l*w-abiding citizens use alcohol and approve of its moderate consumption prohibition ia im|ossible, even though one man ia every ten were a policeman, and one or two more svero ii.firmers, thcugh every magistrate were a Draco, and though the punishment were imprisonment for life. But when I assert that to cany out Prohibition is impossible, I use the word in its accurate sense as miai.irg he entire cessation of the use of alcohol. I have not lived in a Prohibition dii'ric*, and do not theiefore know whether a ptohibition law diminishes >r increases the usa of strong drjnk. [t is evident from repeated prosecutions hat in 01 uth», at any rate, the sale of drink continues, totwi hitanding the "xis ing law. Amet icin exp< rienc i seems to show that in towns Prohibition is inoperative, but that in count ly districts it to some extent leduc s (he inducemouts to drink. It would be wiser and more in accordance wi.h the lnbiti of our ri a to alter, improve, and remodel the existing system of license hanto destioy it altogether ai*d tfcen mild up ano her. o<n this be done then ? Is it impossible ti so improve the present licensing system as to make it sa'is'y the whole bo y or t.mp.-raie ihiplo who loatle and abhor execs', bu". have no objection at all to the iucderate uie ef beer or spiiils t The i«, 1 believe, to te, found in some modified form of what is oemuoo'y known as the Gotlenhurg sysem. The main feitu:e in this is the elimination of the element of personal profit to the Feller of strong drick. Whether this is accomp'ish d by the municipality, the State, or a company wi h limi ed [profits, is not very material so long as certain safeguards a r e provided. Of these th* main provision must be that the pu/iifcs of the trade ire uted in relief of taxation r rates, but are exclusively devoted to the creation and deve'opment of suoh methods cf rs ere at ion as may approve themselves to managers. [ place this safeguard in the front rank b cause experience has proved that where any profit is made, whether by the »dividu!>l or by a corporate body, an effort is sure to be made to increase those pr> fits by pushing tha sale of -trong drink. If legislation _ were p ss d empowering either h municipali y, a coutity, or a comp ny to purchase it arbitraion pr'ces oil hote's (or even to lease tbem for a period) within a given loc-ility, under the necessary estrictions, an opportunity would be given (of gre»t value) for tes'ing the utility cf the methed I suggest for ■lei.ling with'the tocial problem of the liqu r traffic. Und.r the present UooLsing system it is the interest of all * concerned to pnth the tale of strong d ink, while under the mcdified system L suggest, where suhriad managers were owp'eyed, such interest would ■otnl'y disappear aul cease. There would be no tempt > ion prompting a uHungar to bio.lt any extsaug ■aw by supp'yirg drii k to a riruiken ma", or aft r hours, or on a Sui.day. I have spoken of a comp ny as well as a muniit'pa'ity, etc., pmcliasing the lii ans< d houses in a locality. The protits of such a company would have to be limi oJ by law to say 5 per cent., allpicfis beyond that sum to bede- ' vot.d to such obj ets as freo libraries, • ecreation gM.ut.ds, biths, gymnasiums, public poks, and such o'feer matters of the same kind as may approve themselves to the framers of the measure, providing [always that thsy were not applied in reliet of ratts or tixa'i n. I have skecbed out a fe isible scheme, but I am, of course, aware that a multitude of detail points are left untouched for wan*. of time. I will only add that my proposal app. ars to me to fall into he natural naiional lines of reform rather thin tevlutioo, to be the improvement of un exising law rather than the substitution of a new one, aad as such likely to commend to the best m n of all sides.

[ The first application was that of J. Searle for a re v li'ense in rtspect of pr.mi is in Currie-street cow known »s Jubdee Villa, but propose 1 to be called! he Jubilee Hotel.

Mr. Samuel asked that applications for trsisf rs sh ;uIJ be taken first.

Dr. Findhy (with whom was Mr Wright, of Wright ar>d Hutcheu) raid he Bpp ar*d on behalf of M-wsra DjckiiU and o htra who petitioned igaius. ilvi grant of a 1 cet-8-' ei Ler to Mr. feeai lo or Mr. O'Driscbll. Mi . Govett intimated that he should app yto have all tie uaraas »tcuik off the m rnoiit', wl icb was noi in aocord «i li the Licensiug A t.

Tbo S.M. iutimutod that he should take the bueicots as pre-ciibod by tbe Act. New applications would bs fit at C3uß:derei. Mr. Go vet", who appeared, fir Mr. Seail», said he hoped the cue would be dealt with ou >t» merits. He asked that tbe application should bu treated as if no objections were made, go thtt the muter might be decided without r« fen nee to technical objections. It was irapcsrible to deal with Senile's application without dealing with the twoo-her applications. Dr. Fin liny took the» pr> limiuary o v .j ctiuo tlas at the list Uotmxing poll it was decided that thbr< should be no inert us j in the liciini-o-s in (he district. I'd grant such increase would tierefoa b' illegal. U.. 8i» :mtt!el tliar. lii< ' 'ou; t could not proc ed wi (i i. « «j>plic*ti'-'.. T.iti obj i l .1 tin- j.. r/ij-lui-n tiiiggo-i'i'd !>} CUUHB i i ( «i pl ia . »as to ■ uiiil th » i or.iWdl of an existing license s >»■ u» en ibl i a fre»h lic«nse to be granto 1 for Knottier house. The adjournment however, would carry «ith it the ahdn 2«o. To adjourn for th« obrioui Pars

peai of doing illegally what ciuld nit be dono legally was futile. Mr. Southsy Baker (who with Mr. Wejtoa appeared for Mr. O'D.i cjl ) asked that he should bs he vrd. Tbe request wis acceded to. Mr. Govett contended there was nothing to prevent his case being heard and adjourned. Ho again a-ked thai; the cue should bs dealt with on the merits. There was nothiog to prevent the magistrate from reserving his decision.

Mr. Baker agreed that the point 3 of lav should not be argued before the Licensing Oourt. It was probib'ethat ote of the existing licecses in the dis trict wo lid be allowed to lapse. This would p'aae the mitter in the same light as a license which hyl beea rafused a renewal. He was procetdipg to quote a case in point when Dr. Finlay protested, and his contention was upheld by the Magistrate. Mr. Baker, continuing, then appliod that the applications for r.ew licenses should be proceeded with. All tint was asked was that a decision should be arrived at ss to which of the three applicitioas for a new license shoald be granted. Dr. Findlay against the discourtesy implied by Mr. Baker's argument.

Mr. Baker said no discourtesy was intended. Dr. Fiadlay said ' e hid no doubt the extremi'y which Mr Baker wis in was responsible for the remarks. The intent of the adjournment or reservation of jodgmest, whichever it might be cal ed, was now admitted to b) for the object of giving validity to an illegal operation. He contended that the argument advanced for the adjournment was very feeble. H s point was that the full number of li. enses eziste-1, and therefore the consideration of an application far a further lie nse coild net b) proceeded with. If an adjournment of any kind were tece;tary, when would it end ? S.M.: The course I propose to adopt ia to bear the appHcitnrs for rew licensee. There is nothing in the Act to prevent me hearing such applic itione, and I shall therefore adopt that courea. Mr Famnel applied that th 9 transfer aad renewnl might be taken, and disposed of. Th* Magistrate intimated that be would undertake this case at 10 o'clock to-day. Mr.'Qovett said that J. S arle bpd been fiftxn years in tbe nnd during the whole time be h:»d never -been even ciutioned by tha pdice, whose report would, he txpacted, be satisfactory. Dr. Findl'y said there was no objection oh tbe score of characti r., Mr. Goyett put in a plan, showing a building containing 23 rooms, with provision for a further 16 rooms by adding another storey. He submitted that the plan was that of a the roughly up-to-date hotel, and tbe applicant's character was very ta'isfactory. He also drew attention to tbe iccreis'r in population in tbe district, and tbe Magistrate was supposed to lava that knowledge before him, and he was expected to make use of all the local knowledge he posufsjd. De.ling wi h the objection by the police that the hoase was not required, naturally both the probibiticn party and tbe publicans wire opposed to the new license, and he asked the Oourt to treat petitions against tbe granting of the license as bemg absolutely worthlefs. It was utterly usel'si tryißg to get a petition B'gned to increase tbe licenses as it was impossible to get at thd parties interested. He asked that the memorials should be treat: d as provided by section 59 of tbe Act, If the Magistrate looked at the pe'itio". signed b? Messrs Dockriil ani o hers -be would see that it did nit ouifly with the terms of tie Act, it being necessary that etch person »igi ing should be over 21. He atk-id that ell the tames should be erased on the giouLd that tbe form did not comp'y with the A;t. He submi tsd that " we the ur.de-signed adult miles " did not necessirily mean that the sig natories wei eoftte ieq lired age. The d fiui'ion of "adult" in Webs'er showed tha*: the term applied to tbe physical stato of the lody. As to the peti'ion by Binihill and otberr, the same obje-.tion eould not ba taken, but he asked the Magistrate to deal with the petition in the way it The objec'ors living at an avenge distance of six miles and bad as much interest in the present applicatioa as tbe man in the moon, and *hcu!d b dismissed for want (f common serse. With regard to the petition <f Nixor. and othrrs, it was evident the l»w and ihe gosptl bad no"; run f o gtther, but hid been divorced. Tue petition not omitt d to s -y the distance at which the signi'orieresided from the pi'op sei ho'cl, but also omitted the s atement ts to age. It bad been stated that the license from the Bell Block Hotel was to bej removed to a houre in town, and thht euoh a procedure was con'rary to la>-, Be submitte 1 tbat there w«s no question of the Bell B!o?k licence b-fore the Bench, the question beiDg the grin' ing of a new license. Ho thought that the ideal thing to ba arrived as with regard to betels iu a town was to get them as c'ose t gather as possible. He pointed out tbat the r mjVil if

the stitiou made the Jubilee boarding bouse a surab'e place for a bote). TTe also cjntn-ied ihit admi'ting there was a vacancy for a hotel, th> first application should fcava preference all other things being equa l . The S.M. said he had gone into tie memoriik and had noted tbe faults poin'ed out by Mr. Gove'.t. Had be b.en sitting as a magistrate in Cju t he would have reje:t d tbe memorial*, bat as a licensng authority he felt 1 e should aIW greater latitud■> and would accept the n.euuri J», a; o'herwi e counsel for the opponents would hrxv> ni loots standi. Dr. Findlay said he wanted to hnow from his learned friend if he admitted that under p-esent circumstance? hi application cod 1 nt bo ioi>p'i d with. Mr. G jvett declined to make at } admisuoap. Dr. Findhy thereupon submit' ed thai the application must be refused. His first ground of objection was that the full number of licenses existed as a the time of the 1 st pall and thertfor no fresh license could bag anted. The license at 8.1 l Block noild c ntinue to run till the end of the mon'li and was therefore in actual exist .nee. The two factors required were a surrender and withdi awnl b foe an applca'ion for a lice se could be granted. it mijjl t be ;hat th-i Vhjrs ■ rata might be as'-K-d 11 sr.<ni t.,e : ew lie ns* ;*s from the Ist Ju'y, but ; e contended that this c.nild not be al lawed. In Owp'-r v Both Justic Conolly decided In w»s not limited s.\ the number of licetsis at the t : me o' application, but at the tine of the po 1 Local optioQ was not an option on numbers only but also of locality. That | a pjinti which the caas cited did

n ->t 'ea.'. witb. He co-sidered thai tbe olvrk muht h<ive, and shoul 1 h ve, ben e ;*ifc' dto hnvi refuse) to re ewe Un applicat'on. Th-3 essential qu sti>n was: is m>t t'>o abandonment) of ! the Bell Block license a f an! on the Act? I<i the c.ise of O'O i<co!l there I would be an ion f-;r s;nrender of the license at Bail Block and the! gant if a lie nse to the same P "Sin in town. Hid it ben for a removal the distance limit would have been * b.ir. Section 97 of th-i A<st of 1831 gave power to do what was here sought to be don*, but the Legislature, by the Act of 1895, limited tbe rem9val of a 1 csnso 'o a quarter of a mile The whole trend of leg sl ttion had been 'o pi tee in the hands of th l p;ople the c ntrol not only of tbe numb3r of licensed houses, but their locality. To permit what was contemplated by th pres?nt appliciton would bo to perpet a fraud cat ! e Act. The voice of the great bulk of the coramu: ity war heard at tin poll, aad it was ther-j tlia the/ wado known the : r wishes. If an indulgent committee were sittins at New Plyirouth aud applic.x'.io s we e mad i by co'lu-don with the ho'dew of licenses iu th i o;itl ing distn'c s 20 or 30 hotuls rniglr. be crowded into tl-et'iwo. An'-thiir piir.t was thit the applicit'oa was a fraud on the revenue, the f e of £'.2 being piyable on each tvrn v.l. Thi prj:cnt Kitua'ion was s mewhat of an anomaly. The whole thing turned on a spe ula tion, an 1 was an applic itioc that was alt get her ur.heird of in the history ot licrns : ug. If necessary h 9 could call ' evid nee to show the e was ample n to over ake any incre se in t'afficin he towp. There might be times ot special s rain on the presen accommodation, but there wag no difficulty in meeting th ; s. The; e was nut tbe H ght s ■ nod of another lj-ensel ho i:e. Six ba sin tiie town <,f Nev Plymouth seoxo I to him stiffi-iem means of quo- ch'ng the thirst of any man he bad h«ard of. (L ughte) Ho submitted that the license ought io be r. fused.

Mr. A'k.nson said tho LVent-ing meeting bad been opine Jin a very except'oaal manuer by a very eloquont addro. ; s or (he paid i', without c-flenc<-) s rmon as ho had he >rd it ca led. How ever, it was discourse on the whve sub ject of licens'ng legislation. Dealing with Mr. Govett's argunapnts he thought tl>a'> friend bad mistakeu the nature of the meeting and thr occasion. No evidence hid been c tiled to t st-ify 'bat an hotel wai requ'red wherd apj'l ed for. The applicit'oa was practically and nakedly for removal. A removal implied the balancing of the wants as between two places The n?eds of 801 l Block could not b.brf tj the Court as objectiou could n-jt be taken to a renewal on tho pround tbat the license was net required, but it could ba taken with rogatd to a new license. The point ; a relied on mainly was thatthe pr-.ceodir;g was fraudulMr. Bikor bad rem rked ! liat probably the application for a renewal of tho Bell Bkck license would bo droppei, but he w s quit 9 sure it would not be dropped in favour if M". Govt t's client. In the Second place the appli cition meant an increase in irenats. The Legislature fix-.d bo h the cuinbsr and position of licenced hiu es and the only provision fer.iycreasi was that of growth of population. He referred to tho Magistrate's ob.-e; vation that restricbing lijensts te/ided to sly grog sel : irg.

The S.M.: rbaiemarks I made were sugg. stions and had no reference to the present cas-e.

Mr. Atkinson showed that the pr-s nt licans ad houses ia town ba! 164 roons,atd other botrding houses 83 rojms. It addi ional rooms were required they could be provided hy the pr snt lie usees. Catering for travellers was nob the main pirt of a publican's business, it was the bar that thoy 'o.-ked to for the bu'-k of their profits, and every additional liceased bous-t would tend in the diiection of law breaking by some of the license s in order to keep a roof ovtr thei? h a Is. Mr Baker asked tho Magistrate to re-erve his decision till after he had h-ard O'Driscoll's applicatiin. Inspector Gillies said thero w?s an objection by 'he police, a-id ho ealied Sergeant Siagpod -, who said he had been stationed in New Plymou'h fori four years. Thsre were six l house?. Tbe Tarinakt ilotel wis 100 yards from Weale's, and the Imperii! wis 80 yarJs ; the Cri'eriin was about 180 y ird* distant, and the White H irt and Tei minus were both 400 yards. There weie the o'ore five licensed housei within 400 \aids of that for which a license was applied fo>'. H.d never officially had a c >m'plaint of i: ability to g t accommo'ation exe-pt from Na iy< s. Was sat sfied a licens :d house w«s not r quired. To Mr Gove t: Could not siy why people whj co dd not find a.commodation s oul-J come to him.

To Air. Atkinson : Wta'e's had good | accommodit on ss a toirding h-iu-'e, but was no" f uitable for a hotel without a great deal of alteia'ion. Mr Govett, in rtply, eubmittel ithe cas is cited by his opponen's might have a b 'aring on O'Driscoll's ca*e, but did not apply to his client. Tt ere was no c llusi'. n be'.ween his client and the I Bell Bock licensee. There was a vacancy.

Dr. Finday: There is no vacancy. The S.M. :It would bo be:tor to say there is n possibility of a vacancy. Mr Govt t " assen ed. It was cn this contingency that he m -.de the cpplicition. He asked the Bench to adjaurn I lire C3Se until all the applications were heard, end then'decide cn tho meri's.

8.M.: I sh .11 reserve my ducison until aft sir bearing all the cases,

3. bren'an's application,

Mr llutchen applied on behalf of J. Brc-nnan far a license of a hou e .t Be'l Hi ck. Tbe present hen so vac not pvcp sed a? the permanent brilding, pi ins for which h d been put in, and li s tl ent would undertake to spend a defiai e sum". The applicttion involve! the qu?sii n of depriving cr training in the district the prisen? licensed house. No s'lgges'ioi hud been made as to any alteration in th" dis rict justifying the removal of the ieen-e. Tae hotel at Bell Block wa% the only accommodation house b twten ha borough and Waitsra on one side and Inglewood on the oilier. He had a petition from residea's a 1: Bel! B'oeV, in which they a-:k-, d that should the present lictns) bi allow d to lapse i? ibculd be left vacant until his c'isnt's proposed new, building was raceive a lice-, s \ J >hn Bennau nai examine! as to Ilia bu; : n ss car er, ex'euding over '2l vn'-s. lie (-re pawl to txp-n----,£1500 on a butMiii'{ to bo .u-cted wi'.bin six moiiti.s. I'beexis 1 iu<> bud 1ing v T as a privato dwel'ing cf f.iU' 1 ro mbs.

To Inspector G.ll e-;: There was rio furniture in the budding. Could not say whether it was a two-roomed hou3a wish a lean-too and a tin cliimney. T p .e S.M,: To eave litre T say

'that under no possible circumstances ! could I gr nt the license applied fo>\ I Mr. Hutchen : Tte i all I have t ■nsk is that if the p. esjrit license is allow-d to laps) it will be allowed t,u reusin'vacint un f il my client has pu up the building propos;d, Tfw S.M. : I wi'l give the matter consideration.

J. o'driscoll's application. Mr. Sou'h y Baker (with whom was Mr. Weston) applied, on behalf o' Jeremiah O'Dri co'l, for a liceuse ii rispsct of the new blinding oppiait Station, proposed to ba called the ■" Commonwealth " Hotel. He contended that the point settled at the list poll was that the number of iicense3 should rem'in as they wf re ;■ it was therefore clear that the peop'e did not d?site a reduction. If ill refo e circumstances over which the Bsn<-h had no control arose whereby a I ce isj lapsed it was competent and right fo-.' a ne v license to bo issued in any o her part cf the district where reeled. Nothing wai a fraud on the 1. w that was permitted by the luv. His client was in the position of appl)ing for a license wli ch was vacant owing 'o the refusal torcn -wan existing lic3ESt\ Ho said that 20 yfa-s ngi there were three mo-e l ; c°nsed houses inNaw P!ymou'h than a"; the present tim l ?. Tie circums ances were somewhat unusml and had att-a'tvd considerable att sn:ion. The Act renderod it necessary that a large sum should bi spent in the erection rf a substantial building. So soon as the Bell Block l'Vnse lap el it was not a quastion of removal but <f, op-in competition on which the Magisrate hul to decide on the reep. ctivo merits rf the applications. Dr. Fiadlay : At this juncture may T a k m/ fri n l wlie'liar it is his unqualified iutfntion t) withdraw the L!ei Bin k l'c n?e. j

Mr. Bak-r declined to mike ony m ire explicit siatoment on the point. Assuming that all tho.formali'iss had bosn observdd, he sti'eJ tbat pi ui showed a building with 34 belro-ms and six sittir-g room*, arid altogether a fir.st-rate up-'o-dato hotel. The Ocut t adjourned till 7 p.m On resnmiuj, Mr. Atkinson rais d the point of the magistrate'i-compe'on.-y to a ju'imte on Mr. O'DrisCfTs app'ication Mr. Baker protested tbat an objection c.uld not bo taken in the middle of counrel's addn ss. Mr. Atkinson snd he raiud the point at the earliest opportunity. The S.M. ruled tbat tbe pjint could not be rai-wdst this stag*. It should h.vs been raised r»t the commencement »,-f the proceedings. Mr. B.keragsiin p otesttd. Mr. Atkinson asked tint the Magistrate shoul-J take a note of his objec'ion that on tbo ground ef p cuniary bias or reasonable susp'cion of the same through his relation wi'h a person CDnnectod with the applic ition he objected to Hi« Worship adjudi^at : ng on O'Di iwdl's appliea'ion. The S.M. consented to note the obj ction

Mr. Baker : Assuming that all formalities were in orde-, it only remained to show a new licofe was r quired in the t-iwn. The g ounds se 1 ; for h in the peti ion were nonsuch a3 should have weight. However much sympathy the Bench might have with the desire of tbe people of Be'l Block tot to be drprived of a licensed house if O'Driscell wished to drop thit licesfe the Bench could not interfere. As to the petition from Nixon and others tbat mer dy contained the expression of a wish tint a license shou'd be granted to Jubilee Villa or any other house. The petition was informal in rcspsct to the address s. The only o her psti'ion was that in respeoi of which Dr Findley ftppaared, He referred to thj Magistrate's ru'ing. as ti the pe it'ons.

Mr. Atkinson said he appeared cot only fcr petitioners but for objectors who wtre personally present. .'V The S.M. s'.id: Trat, position was untenable, as object'rs must personally appear, but he was prepared to hear Mr. Atkinson on behalf of petitioners Mr Baker paid the petitions, unless backed up by evidence, were utterly worthless Tin persons signing could be p'aeed in thres clispes—lst: Th?B3 interested ia .he present licenses. 2nd : Prohibitio&i-ts who oppos d all licenses and tick advantage of eveiy opportunity to air their views. 3rd,: Tuoio who signsd without any reason beyond being sa isfiei with the present stat) rf iiffaiis. Oa the patition to wlii h he was inferring, were the figna'ii'GS o? 280 out of whom he did not supp >sn 'h .t oae of i hem kcew anything of the fac s< f the case. He wa i-.st ucied tint the price paid for these s:«i;a'ures was Is a hea 4 . Dr. Findtay said the ea'ement sho ild no 1 ; t'e mado unless it wa-i to be proved. Mr Baker intended pioving it by Mr Vftdl y, Secretary of the Lie nel Victua'ler.-.' Aesociition, who w u'd prove that Mr Suell was paid that prico. He hoped to patis'y Ihe Bt-nch the housi wag required, that nothing was being dnretha* was wron», and he w.su!d make the othor side feel as'onishoi that efforts of this kind should be di e:t d towards holding back the progi e*s ■ f the town. Trains and steamers*were now running four days a week. At Hiwera the proportion wns 1 in 400; Inglesrood, 1 in 360 ; Palmers'on, lin 400 ; Normanby, 1 in 135 ; Mnnai*, 1 in 149 ; New Plymouth, 1 in 735—v*ry neatly double. Mr A kios n: Why not give us t' r !'-ufisfor We'lirgion ?

Air Biker sid he b lieved they were not in Tarauaki. He would tall evijjfi'j.e, not petition, which were va'uelestr, but direct evidence from Mr Major, the Mayor of Hawera, and others in a position to p. ova that there was great difficulty experienced by persons coming here la'e at night in ge'ting accommodation. There were s : x hotels in the .town. Bo'-.h the White Hart and the Criterion were excellent bote's, bu» were simply rushed, and people wer. continually turned away for want of roam, The Terminus Huttd was evidently overcrowded, as five rooms had two beds in each. At the Bed House there were three rooms with two beds. A.* the Imperial theo was oae room with five bods in it.

Mr Atkinson sugg'sfcid that the room with five teJs might be the nuri e r y.

[The balance of the report is held over. Th) Court adjourned at 10 p.m. t'll 10 o'clock this morning.]